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Old 02-15-2003, 02:04 PM   #1
wiseguy
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a "cut" function in Finder

I really miss the "cut" feature in the finder. It sucks, that you cant just choose the files you like to move somewhere else and then go to that location and then paste them there. Instead of that needing 2 finder windows and having to use drag and drop is just so uncomfortable...
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Old 02-15-2003, 02:39 PM   #2
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Copy works-just Command-C, Command-Delete, Command Paste where you want it to go. One extra keystroke to get rid of the original, big deal.
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Old 02-15-2003, 03:06 PM   #3
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Big deal when you move 3 gigabytes of files so you cant copy them, because your hard drive is full. happens quite often to me...
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:48 PM   #4
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Moving 3GB....

...is instantaneous if they're on the same volume. Just drag them from one window to the other. Cut/paste would do nothing to streamline the process, or am I missing something obvious?
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:50 PM   #5
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From a switchers POV not being able to Cut and Paste files takes a long time to get used to.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:31 AM   #6
Carl Stawicki
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a "cut" function in Finder

Amen, and give me back the ability to put stuff away from the trash.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:35 AM   #7
tbsingleton73
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I agree with slur, using the mouse to drag a file on the same volume is the same as Cut and Paste (or Move in Windows). Only when dragging from one Volume to another does it change to copy and then you have to delete the original if you don't want it.

What do you mean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Stawickci
...give me back the ability to put stuff away from the trash.

?

You can highlight one or more items and press Command+Delete and they will move directly to the Trash without opening it.
A press of Shift+Command+Delete will empty the Trash without opening it.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:52 AM   #8
Carl Stawicki
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In Windows, I use cut/paste all the time, even to/from locations on the same disk. If you drag/drop between locations, you need 2 Finder windows open prior to moving (unless you like the spring-loaded folder thing). Cut/Paste takes fewer clicks and mouse movements. Having an interface than supports copy but not cut is inconsistent, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsingleton73
What do you mean ?

I wrote 'put stuff away from the trash,' meaning, something's in the trash that you want to return to its original location. You could do that in OS9, but not X.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:59 AM   #9
tbsingleton73
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I have not really used OS9, so didn't know you could do that.

I think the Drag and Drop is just as much work as Cut and Paste.
Both involving needing two windows open (source & destination), granted with C&P you can open the destination window later, but it still needs to be open to get the files there.
And you only click once to drag the files.

But either way, it comes down to personal preference. I prefer the right-click drag of windows that give me the choose of copy or move or cancel.
But Windows is sitting on the other desk.

Have you tired one of those third party file management apps? Do they let you cut and paste files? I have not tried them myself.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsingleton73
I think the Drag and Drop is just as much work as Cut and Paste.
Both involving needing two windows open (source & destination)

You don't need two windows open at all for cut and paste, the point is it can all be done within the same finder window. Very easy

You can also do it within one finder window by dragging, but it's much much harder navigating through folders mid drag, especially in column view. Plus it takes longer because you have to wait for the springs to kick in.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:40 AM   #11
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Try something like Xshelf as an alternative to cutting and pasting.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:03 AM   #12
tbsingleton73
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Or even try XFolders
While is doesn't seem to support Command-X / C / V it does have cut/paste/copy button and has them mapped to the F keys
i.e. F5=copy / F6=mmove / F7=New Folder / F8=Delete / F9=Rename / F10=Exit.
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Stawicki
Having an interface than supports copy but not cut is inconsistent

No - actually it is the Windows use of "cut" that is inconsistent. When you "cut" something, it is supposed to get removed from its original location and put on the "clipboard". When you "paste" something, whatever is in the clipboard gets inserted at the current location.
If you do another operation that involves "cut" or "copy", whatever was in the clipboard is lost since it gets overwritten with the most recent thing that was "cut" or "copied".

In Windows, when you "cut" a file, if I recall correctly, it doesn't actually get removed from the original location until you do a "paste".
OS X does not implement "cut" for files in order to avoid this inconsistency - or the likelihood of loss of files if it were to be implemented in a consistent way. (loss when a file in the clipboard is overwritten with some subsequent "cut" or "copy")
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayne
No - actually it is the Windows use of "cut" that is inconsistent. When you "cut" something, it is supposed to get removed from its original location and put on the "clipboard". When you "paste" something, whatever is in the clipboard gets inserted at the current location.
If you do another operation that involves "cut" or "copy", whatever was in the clipboard is lost since it gets overwritten with the most recent thing that was "cut" or "copied".

In Windows, when you "cut" a file, if I recall correctly, it doesn't actually get removed from the original location until you do a "paste".
OS X does not implement "cut" for files in order to avoid this inconsistency - or the likelihood of loss of files if it were to be implemented in a consistent way. (loss when a file in the clipboard is overwritten with some subsequent "cut" or "copy")

In all my years of using Windows and listening to other people who use Windows I've heard many many complaints. However, I have not heard one single person say that the cut/paste and copy/paste functions in explorer and 'inconsistent'....only a Mac user would say such a thing!

It's just 'smart', when you cut a file it goes dimm. If you then go copy something else, it un-dimms and remains where it is. The fact it goes dim lets you know it's been cut, but will remain where it is unless you paste it elsewhere.

The concept and the implementation IMO are hard to argue with. (the Finder, that's what I would call inconsistent)
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mark88
In all my years of using Windows and listening to other people who use Windows I've heard many many complaints. However, I have not heard one single person say that the cut/paste and copy/paste functions in explorer and 'inconsistent'....only a Mac user would say such a thing!

Agreed. There is a disturbing pattern of threads where perfectly reasonable ideas are denigrated by Mac users as soon as they hear the feature is already present in Windows. I'll bet in a lot of these cases, if Windows was never mentioned, the same Mac users would say "Hey, that's a good idea." If that isn't a sign of an irrational elitist cult of users...
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark88
I have not heard one single person say that the cut/paste and copy/paste functions in explorer were 'inconsistent'....only a Mac user would say such a thing!

It's just 'smart', when you cut a file it goes dimm. If you then go copy something else, it un-dimms and remains where it is. The fact it goes dim lets you know it's been cut, but will remain where it is unless you paste it elsewhere.

What you are saying is that it is inconsistent, but it works out in practice. I.e. cut/copy/paste for files in Windows Explorer is really a different operation than cut/copy/paste of text or other objects inside files, but it functions similarly so the same names (cut/copy/paste) are used.

When operating on text within a file, a user can (and some do) use "cut" as a way of permanently getting rid of unwanted parts. I.e. it functions as a delete operation (one that happens to keep a temporary copy on the clipboard). It is the lack of this delete functionality that is inconsistent with "cut" in Windows Explorer.

In OS X, cut/copy/paste is the same operation whether applied to text or images in a file, or to files in Finder. Whatever is currently on the clipboard is lost whenever you do a subsequent "cut" or "copy" no matter what.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by styrafome
Agreed. There is a disturbing pattern of threads where perfectly reasonable ideas are denigrated by Mac users as soon as they hear the feature is already present in Windows. I'll bet in a lot of these cases, if Windows was never mentioned, the same Mac users would say "Hey, that's a good idea." If that isn't a sign of an irrational elitist cult of users...

Going through the switch what I notice is that Mac users will recommend things as solutions that take far longer than the Windows method we want to replicate...example:-

Windows switcher wants to be able to "right click > New Txt File" in Finder, he asks how such a thing is possible.

*Some/alot* of Mac elitists will repy with something like this. "Why would you want to create a blank file? Just open Text Edit, new file and save it to where you want"

Kinda like this thread.

:-)
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:10 PM   #18
mark88
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Originally Posted by hayne
When operating on text within a file, a user can (and some do) use "cut" as a way of permanently getting rid of unwanted parts. I.e. it functions as a delete operation (one that happens to keep a temporary copy on the clipboard). It is the lack of this delete functionality that is inconsistent with "cut" in Windows Explorer.

In OS X, cut/copy/paste is the same operation whether applied to text or images in a file, or to files in Finder. Whatever is currently on the clipboard is lost whenever you do a subsequent "cut" or "copy" no matter what.

How clueless does a user have to be to not realise he/she is in Finder, not a text file? seriously, consistency to such a degree is hardly something to shout about.

That's like saying the menu bar isn't consistent because it changes depending on what application is open. :/

or

A certain shortcut key is inconsistent because it does X in one app, Y in another.

Same point you're trying to make.

Last edited by mark88; 03-06-2006 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mark88
Going through the switch what I notice is that Mac users will recommend things as solutions that take far longer than the Windows method we want to replicate

Indeed. There are lots of trade-offs in user-interface design. Adding functionality is not always a good thing - it increases the complexity of the interface. Increased complexity makes a interface harder to use (for most people); it may also lead to an increased likelihood of errors (user-errors).
The Mac interface in general is optimized for simplicity and ease of use and avoidance of errors even if that means that some operations are less efficient (in terms of number of operations per second).

In other words, if it is possible to achieve a certain task by doing A, B, C, or by the single operation D, it is often better to not provide operation D on the interface since the added complexity would outweigh the benefits. We're talking greatest good for the greatest number here. If it makes 4% of the users 20% more productive, but the added complexity makes the remaining 96% of the users 1% less productive, it is a net loss.

Speed of operation is far less important than avoidance of error.
The same is true when driving an unfamiliar route through the city. If I know the route from A to B and I know the route from B to C, then I might well choose to drive A -> B -> C even if B is a little out of the way. That avoids any possibility of error. Error can introduce catastrophic delays.

Quote:
Windows switcher wants to be able to "right click > New Txt File" in Finder, he asks how such a thing is possible.

*Some/alot* of Mac elitists will repy with something like this. "Why would you want to create a blank file?

I think it is "flamebait" to attribute these sorts of responses to elitism.
The question is a legitimate one. Most people don't see the point of creating an empty text file.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:57 PM   #20
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And there are add-ons that let you ctrl-click (right-click) and an added menu item allow creat new file. Chooses are (text,html, word, excel, powerpoint, etc).
Lets face it, Windows is NOT Mac and Mac is not Windows.
Each does things differently than the other. And whenever there are more than one way to do things, people will always say their way is better. Which is true, "there way is better for them" and no one else.
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