Dual 1 GH upgrade - Powersource

sbur · 01-26-2003, 11:43 AM

I upgraded my 400 MHz G4 with a PowerLogix dual 1 GHz upgrade card. At first there were some L3 cache problems, so I sent the card back. They fixed it by adding another power supply line into the processor.

Now, when I stress the processors, the system powers down. It just blacks out. The rep at PowerLogixs says that I probably need a power supply that will give more power to the card...something he says he saw once before.

The Apple tech here has done some checking, and Apple does not sell a power supply that will work with my system, but will still provide more power. (Or at least they won't provide him with one....)

Question: Is there a third party place I could look, and does anyone have any suggestions? The current power supply is a 338 max output source. Any ideas? I want to keep the upgrade card, and a new power supply / upgrade card seems cheap compared to buying a new machine.

If I add a bigger power source, will it fry the other components, or are they independantly regulated?

saint.duo · 01-26-2003, 12:04 PM

A 400Mhz means that you probably don't have a gigabit or higher machine (one that has the powered AGP slot for ADC monitor connections). You could take a standard PC ATX power supply, modify it a little (splice a few wires), and use it. I am actually considering this for myself.

You can find some directions on doing this at xlr8yourmac . This is a link directly to the relavant info.

I have a 450 G4 (AGP), and I believe my power supply is a 407W. I can check that later when I try out my new combo drive. (I'm hoping that the 32x10x40x10x cendyne I have will work with toast and boot)

Do you have your tower full? I have 4 hard drives (all 7200 RPM), a 3rd party combo drive, zip 250, a retail Radeon card, and a PCI Rage 128 in my computer, plus all of my ports full except firewire, and have had no power issues. (I still have the stock processor, though). I find it hard to believe that a processor could pull more power than all of the devices I currently have in mine (especially those drives). Though, I'm not an electrical engineer, so what do I know.

sbur · 01-27-2003, 06:25 AM

According to the invoice, it is a gigabit ethernet machine. It was one of the last 400 MHz machines made (september 2000).

I do not have the tower full. Only the standard equipment: DVD/CD-ROM (not burner), 20 GB HD, and Zip drive. I also have a SCSI card, but it never gets used now that I have firewire devices. No PCI Rage card or anything.

338W is a lot less that 407W, and the tech did say that the Dual 1GH card draws ALOT of juice. Maybe a 407W would work ... so long as I don't put the stock processor back into it....

sbur · 01-27-2003, 03:55 PM

I need to check later tonight, but I think the issue comes down to whether I have a 20 or 22 pin motherboard. The 22 pin doesn't seem to come any higher than about 340W max output. But the 20 pin comes higher.

What a pain in the arse this has become!

[edit] Confirmed. I have a motherboard with a 22 pin power supply hookup. This is the issue. They simply do not make a power supply for this board that will deliver more than about 340 W. Guess I look at changing to a dual 800....

saint.duo · 01-28-2003, 03:46 PM

You might want to look at the digital audio power supplies. The digital audios had the +28 (+24?)v (same as the gigabits), and in a graphite enclosure. Let me do some digging through the service parts database and see what I can find out.

I'll let you know if I find out for sure whether they are compatible or not.

[edit]
I did some checking. The DA and Gigabit models both stop at a 338W power supply. Bummer.

milhouse · 01-28-2003, 08:47 PM

How in god's name can powerlogix sell an upgrade card for your machine that can't run on the stock PS??!

I'd ask them for a solution or a refund..

sbur · 01-29-2003, 03:55 AM

When they first came out, they appeared to run fine...but there were some problems with the L3 cache, and it was a bit unstable. The fix was to add another powerline into the processor....thats when the problems started.

Now it you look at MacMall, they say only a dual 800 runs on the gigabit...this wasn't stated when I bought it. PowerLogix actually has been great in the customer service department.

I will be calling MacMall to arrange an exchange for a dual 800 in the next couple of days...

Again, Powerlogixs has done really well by me. I don't fault them for this. Early adoption sometimes means you have some kinks to iron out...I should have waited. Now it is a known problem that of which they are aware, and they aren't advertising as compatible anymore.

sbur · 01-29-2003, 11:08 AM

I had a thought (rare, I know), and need a sounding board.

When I first received the upgrade card, it ran ok without the L3 cache turned on. To be able to take full advantage of the card, I returned it for a modification (by PowerLogics). What they did was to put another electrical lead from the processor to the line that gives power to the cooling fan sitting on top of the upgrade card. This fan plugs into the same adapter that the internal drives plug into. In other words, it bypasses the motherboard for more power.

This is the idea: Can I take an old external drive (I have a tape drive with junked heads) and plug the fan into the power supply from the external drive so that the extra power comes from a separate power supply? Does anyone know if this will fry the motherboard? Since these use the same plug and drive the same kind of devices as the plugs coming out of the computers power supply (i.e. to plug extra drives into the power supply), the external powersource should be regulated enough to not give more than one would expect for a single drive being added. That might be enough, though, if it were dedicated to juicing up the processor.

Might make shutdown a problem...I don't know. But it might be a good enough solution until I get a "newer" computer that will run with the card.

saint.duo · 01-29-2003, 11:55 AM

In theory (yes, I know, that's scary), that should work. If the power lead is the standard 4 pin drive connector, then an external box with the same connector should be able to power it without any issues.

You're more likely to have power down issues than anything being fried.

01-26-2003, 11:43 AM	#1
sbur Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saint Peter, MN Posts: 330	Dual 1 GH upgrade - Powersource I upgraded my 400 MHz G4 with a PowerLogix dual 1 GHz upgrade card. At first there were some L3 cache problems, so I sent the card back. They fixed it by adding another power supply line into the processor. Now, when I stress the processors, the system powers down. It just blacks out. The rep at PowerLogixs says that I probably need a power supply that will give more power to the card...something he says he saw once before. The Apple tech here has done some checking, and Apple does not sell a power supply that will work with my system, but will still provide more power. (Or at least they won't provide him with one....) Question: Is there a third party place I could look, and does anyone have any suggestions? The current power supply is a 338 max output source. Any ideas? I want to keep the upgrade card, and a new power supply / upgrade card seems cheap compared to buying a new machine. If I add a bigger power source, will it fry the other components, or are they independantly regulated?

01-27-2003, 06:25 AM	#3
sbur Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saint Peter, MN Posts: 330	According to the invoice, it is a gigabit ethernet machine. It was one of the last 400 MHz machines made (september 2000). I do not have the tower full. Only the standard equipment: DVD/CD-ROM (not burner), 20 GB HD, and Zip drive. I also have a SCSI card, but it never gets used now that I have firewire devices. No PCI Rage card or anything. 338W is a lot less that 407W, and the tech did say that the Dual 1GH card draws ALOT of juice. Maybe a 407W would work ... so long as I don't put the stock processor back into it.... Last edited by sbur; 01-27-2003 at 06:28 AM.

01-27-2003, 03:55 PM	#4
sbur Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saint Peter, MN Posts: 330	I need to check later tonight, but I think the issue comes down to whether I have a 20 or 22 pin motherboard. The 22 pin doesn't seem to come any higher than about 340W max output. But the 20 pin comes higher. What a pain in the arse this has become! [edit] Confirmed. I have a motherboard with a 22 pin power supply hookup. This is the issue. They simply do not make a power supply for this board that will deliver more than about 340 W. Guess I look at changing to a dual 800.... Last edited by sbur; 01-27-2003 at 07:40 PM.

01-28-2003, 03:46 PM	#5
saint.duo MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,077	You might want to look at the digital audio power supplies. The digital audios had the +28 (+24?)v (same as the gigabits), and in a graphite enclosure. Let me do some digging through the service parts database and see what I can find out. I'll let you know if I find out for sure whether they are compatible or not. [edit] I did some checking. The DA and Gigabit models both stop at a 338W power supply. Bummer. Last edited by saint.duo; 01-28-2003 at 03:53 PM.

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01-26-2003, 12:04 PM	#2
saint.duo MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,077	A 400Mhz means that you probably don't have a gigabit or higher machine (one that has the powered AGP slot for ADC monitor connections). You could take a standard PC ATX power supply, modify it a little (splice a few wires), and use it. I am actually considering this for myself. You can find some directions on doing this at xlr8yourmac . This is a link directly to the relavant info. I have a 450 G4 (AGP), and I believe my power supply is a 407W. I can check that later when I try out my new combo drive. (I'm hoping that the 32x10x40x10x cendyne I have will work with toast and boot) Do you have your tower full? I have 4 hard drives (all 7200 RPM), a 3rd party combo drive, zip 250, a retail Radeon card, and a PCI Rage 128 in my computer, plus all of my ports full except firewire, and have had no power issues. (I still have the stock processor, though). I find it hard to believe that a processor could pull more power than all of the devices I currently have in mine (especially those drives). Though, I'm not an electrical engineer, so what do I know.

01-28-2003, 08:47 PM	#6
milhouse Prospect Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 28	How in god's name can powerlogix sell an upgrade card for your machine that can't run on the stock PS??! I'd ask them for a solution or a refund..

01-29-2003, 03:55 AM	#7
sbur Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saint Peter, MN Posts: 330	When they first came out, they appeared to run fine...but there were some problems with the L3 cache, and it was a bit unstable. The fix was to add another powerline into the processor....thats when the problems started. Now it you look at MacMall, they say only a dual 800 runs on the gigabit...this wasn't stated when I bought it. PowerLogix actually has been great in the customer service department. I will be calling MacMall to arrange an exchange for a dual 800 in the next couple of days... Again, Powerlogixs has done really well by me. I don't fault them for this. Early adoption sometimes means you have some kinks to iron out...I should have waited. Now it is a known problem that of which they are aware, and they aren't advertising as compatible anymore.

01-29-2003, 11:08 AM	#8
sbur Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Saint Peter, MN Posts: 330	I had a thought (rare, I know), and need a sounding board. When I first received the upgrade card, it ran ok without the L3 cache turned on. To be able to take full advantage of the card, I returned it for a modification (by PowerLogics). What they did was to put another electrical lead from the processor to the line that gives power to the cooling fan sitting on top of the upgrade card. This fan plugs into the same adapter that the internal drives plug into. In other words, it bypasses the motherboard for more power. This is the idea: Can I take an old external drive (I have a tape drive with junked heads) and plug the fan into the power supply from the external drive so that the extra power comes from a separate power supply? Does anyone know if this will fry the motherboard? Since these use the same plug and drive the same kind of devices as the plugs coming out of the computers power supply (i.e. to plug extra drives into the power supply), the external powersource should be regulated enough to not give more than one would expect for a single drive being added. That might be enough, though, if it were dedicated to juicing up the processor. Might make shutdown a problem...I don't know. But it might be a good enough solution until I get a "newer" computer that will run with the card.

01-29-2003, 11:55 AM	#9
saint.duo MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,077	In theory (yes, I know, that's scary), that should work. If the power lead is the standard 4 pin drive connector, then an external box with the same connector should be able to power it without any issues. You're more likely to have power down issues than anything being fried.