Debian and Mac OS X

[thatch]

Okay, now I've installed again from scratch. I needed to partition the whole hard drive on the Powerbook again anyway, as I hadn't left enough space for the wife and her stuff without being crammed. And this time I decided to make an exchange partition as was recommended for said purpose between the two file systems.

Well, I won't say that three is a charm just yet. I had problems along the way that I hadn't on other tries, mostly with the linux partition setup. But I've now gotten further along than ever with either machine, the 7500 or the Powerbook.

I think I've got it. I am currently downloading the packages from one of the ftp mirrors through the tasksel program. It said it needed 190 MB for the download and then 572 MB would be the installed space needed, and did I want to continue, which I of course said yes.

Tons of data was being downloaded and still is as I sit here and type this. Strange thing is that the output to the screen just went blank and I can still see the router is downloading furiously. I'm hoping the screen will come back when it's done although the manual mentions how it would be a good idea to watch the output for errors along the way, which I was but now can't because the screen is black with nothing showing up.

Other than that though, it seems like I finally have success but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. What a huge undertaking this has been for me. I've learned a lot and surely have much more to go, still hoping for the best.

Thanks to all who have put up with this exhaustive thread. I hope it can help someone else who wants to do this with an old machine laying around not getting used much. I have a feeling it will be quite fast as compared to how it ran with its own original OS.

[tjj]

thatch, that's good to hear.
I must say that installation using the iso-1 CD is quite smooth. I have, however not succeded in getting past commandline mode. Can't seem to configure X11 properly. On my first install I tried the linuxvm24 kernel, which insisted on getting drivers for new-world powermacs. I just reinstalled using the linux.bin (in the BootX1.2.2.sit file). I can install the base and get packages alright, but X11 keeps complaining. Must be the hardware config.
I perused the PB3400 Manual and looked up machine specs at apple, but I can't seem to find the proper information. What video drivers and resolution do you use?

[thatch]

tjj, I'm having the exact same problem as you, I think. I had chosen gdm as the window manager. But every time I use startx, I get a blank screen with no prompt and then must force a restart to get out. From there I use BootX to startup with the ramdisk option which takes me to the installer. From there I get into a shell and comment out the default-window-manager so I can start up with the regular linux.bin kernel and no ramdisk option. Then I can login to my regular system without the installer and its tiny shell called ash.

Now that I can get back to that, I would really like to know what other window manager I could install that I know, because I don't know gdm or gnome. The other choice was xdm and I don't know that one either.

It is a video display problem and I thought it was because I chose 24 bit depth as default. So, I went back into the gdm config with 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' as root. But I'm not certain of some of the settings there and like you, have looked up in my powerbook manual and technical specs documentation, plus I've been searching the mailing list archives for answers. I know we have an svga lcd screen monitor. I've tried a few changes to the setup without success so far.

I thought it might be better if I could install a window manager I know. And I tried a apt-get windowmaker but it says: E: Invalid operation windowmaker. Maybe that's not a window manager that is available to debian linux?

So, that's where I'm at currently. Kind of stuck but still on the search for answers. Does any of that sound familiar to you?

[thatch]

I just found something that could be relevant to the problem with the video settings for the X system. Chapter 8.15.1, Settings for the X Server might have the answer, if it really applies to our old powerbooks svga screen. It can't hurt to try, I suppose, at this point.

[tjj]

thatch,
All too familiar, I'm afraid. I just haven't figured out how to disable gdm. In my first install X11 wouldn't start and returned me to the cl, now I just get the blank screen....
So stuck as well, and still hoping to find the proper hardware settings somehow....
I think I found a mailing list where the refresh rate was mentioned, but now it eludes me. Not giving it up, though.

Edit.

Quote: Chapter 8.15.1

Whoa, I'll look it up.

[thatch]

tjj, it's a small enough portion of the chapter for me to post, so here it is:

Quote: 8.15.1 Settings for the X Server On iMacs, and some older Macintoshes as well, the X Server software doesn't calculate appropriate video settings. You will need to choose the 'Advanced' option during configuration of the video settings. For the monitor's horizontal sync range, enter 59-63. You can leave the default for vertical refresh range. The mouse device should be set to /dev/input/mice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've made the change but haven't tested because it's getting really late here and I've got an early one tomorrow. I'll be back sometime late tomorrow evening to resume where I've left off.

To get the gdm to stop getting you into the blank screen, just comment out the only line you should have in the default-display-manager file located in /etc. You have to do it as root too, 'su root'.

HTH and good luck to you.

[tjj]

thatch, thanks, Wouldnt have fig out about disabling gdm...
Now I have it working! It's definitely not beautiful as Aqua; but it works. Maybe some more tweaking but right not I dare not touch it!

Ok, after getting out of that grey screen I tried

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

(as root, or with sudo if installed)
Now Itried this and that without luck until I chose the fbdev at the driver options.
I also gave some system ram, not knowing if there's any videoram. I assigned 8000kb.
Set the horizontal range to 59-63, and left the vertical at default.
Maybe it wouldn't be necessary with these changes if fbdev driver had been chosen upfront. It was the last change added to the config.

Then startx and you can imagine my surprise when kde desktop environment actually loaded rightr there in front of my eyes.
So, well, there, it's possible. Now the fun remains to be seen!

[Glanz]

http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#apt-howto

[tjj]

Glanz,
Once again thank you for all your help.
Now just (for now) two more questions:
Where do I change the timeout for sudo, it seems long.
How do I choose another desktop environment, e.g. gnome? KDE keeps poppin' up when I startx..

TIA

[Glanz]

In the ".xsession" and "xinitrc" files you can tell the system which WM to start.
For example here are a few possibilities that I have "hashed out" here...

# exec startkde
exec wmaker
# exec fvwm
# exec xfce
# exec xfce4
# exec blackbox
# exec fluxbox
# exec afterstep
# exec metacity
# exec gnome-session

# sawfish &
# exec xfce

# end...

If you have a problem with that, take out the "exec".......

As you can see, Windowmaker will be started at startup because it isn't hashed. Once you get into either Blackbox or Windowmaker, the menu system should contain links to "restart/another window manager"...

You cam also see what gets loaded at startup in the "/etc/init.d" file, but be careful for now.

You will be able to control which WM starts later by graphical interface after you taste a few of them. Gnome uses the GDM configurator..

##DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE FOLLOWING INFO JUST YET############
Later, you will get into run levels. When a Linux system starts, "init" reads the "inittab" file to determine what to do, in my case run level 2. It then reads "/etc/rc2.d for scripts to run. All the files in "/etc/rc2.d are really links to the actual scripts in "/etc/init.d"... All run level files begin with either a "K" for kill, or an "S" for start. These are numbering schemes to determine start order.... Links with low numbers are started before those with high numbers.
########################

BTW: run levels, among other things, are what I have to adjust oftem with Fink just to get it to work correctly because many of their "unstable" tree is screwed up on the order and the choices of runs for certain interfaces and apps.
In Debian, you won't really have to do much "corrective" stuff not concerned with the hardware.

[tjj]

Hmm, don't have any

Quote: ".xsession" and "xinitrc"

files in my home or in /etc/X11 directories.
However, if I run "gnome-session" I get warnings like "locale not supported by C library"
and " cannot open display"; I get passed back to the CL.
Most poke around some more. Maybe even Read in some of Those Fine Manuals..Will get back tonight (CET)

Thanks again.

[Glanz]

Later, you may need to add something to the kernel to identify, such as new hardware, or hardware you have that isn't recognized quite yet. There are two way to do this. You can incorporate directly or add a "service" for the device as a "module".... That's what we geekoids do. To get an idea what I mean, many devices that are nor required for the booting process, such as sound cards, are normally added as modules. They are pretty handy Tjj! You can set up your kernel to use all the modules you want....like if you got you frig and stove, and your water sprinklers hooked up to your computer, you may have to add a "refrigerator" module This is mainly for devices that get used once in a while. Modules are in "/lib/modules/xxxxxx" where "xxxxxx" is the version number of your kernel. A Debian installation has many modules....>>> "block" (devices), cdrom, "fs" (file systems), ipv4 (IP mask), ipv6 (v^ of IP mask, misc (frig,, water sprinkler, toilette), net (network cards), scsi (supported cards), and "video....

Now you can add modules on the fly..., but they have to be loaded "dynamically". This does not mean using a hammer. hehehe One uses "/sbin/insmod" to add one, and "/sbin/rmmod" to junk one. Other tools are : "/sbin/modprobe" that will probe a module, and this one, my favorite>>> "/sbin/depmod", which will determine and elucidate a module's dependencies.

So kiddies, that is all for this morning! The nasty teacher has to go out and smoke a cigarette on the way to the lab, eat a piece of cheesecake en route [with a good cup of coffee], and pretend to do some work.

[Glanz]

Quote: Originally posted by tjj Hmm, don't have any files in my home or in /etc/X11 directories. However, if I run "gnome-session" I get warnings like "locale not supported by C library" and " cannot open display"; I get passed back to the CL. Most poke around some more. Maybe even Read in some of Those Fine Manuals..Will get back tonight (CET) Thanks again.

You may create those files.
If you have "nano" which usually comes with Debian, or pico, or any editor.

Open a term and type

nano ~/.xinitrc

Then add a hashed line with the date, just to put something in it. It isn't necessary, but it's nice to date a newly created file:::

# 01/29/03 Debian smokes!

Hit the exit via <ctrl-X>

Hit <enter> after "y' for yes

DassssssIT! You nowhave a new ~/.xinitrc file.

[Glanz]

The "-v" option is used to validate the sudo user's timestamp. Using this option will prompt the user to extend the timestamp.

You may edit the amount of time you wish SUDO to run for each user on the system by tweaking the "/etc/sudoers" file preferably using "visudo"..., though you may use any editor. This file contains all the users and the respective applications, commands, and miscellaneous features associated with them, like who gets to open the frig via a kernel module. [sorry, I can't resist]

[tjj]

Awrigt Glanz, you're owed. Thanks again.
It IS nice to have someone pour generously from the Cup of Debian Wizzdom when you're too lazy or too short of time to get past initial hurdles.

I left out sound support for example in the initial build, and think I could add it entering the installer again. But now you say that I could insert a module. Guess man insmod tells me how. I'm not finished tempering with the keyboard settings either and will add support for floppy expansion bay drive.

When I added myself to the sudoes file using vi /etc/sudoers, there was only a very short line there (root All(ALL) ALL or something to that effect. Haven't found anything setting the timeout. I wanted to shorten the default timeout, I know -k will kill the time stamp for the ongoing session. Must scrutinize the manpages with greater zeal; there it is timestamp_timeout. Default is 15 minutes).
Now I want to hook it up so that the frige expells one case of beer every 36 minutes on saturdays when my favorite soccer team is on TV. Must be something to do with cron

Now go get some cheesecake and a goldfish for your cat. You sure deserve it!

[Glanz]

Tjj

SsssssOOOOOOKKKKK
OK
I just like doing this that's all...... And I like Denmark too! There's really some good CheeseCake there!

I have a question for you? Did you add a user to your setup, or are you always running as root. If so we'll have to correct that. No Prob!

When you get ready to insert modules let me know. We'll have to verify driver support, etc.... You must especially avoid re-inventing the wheel. I once wrote a modem script and driver by hand to get a modem to work. It took me a week. Then I found out that one was available for download..., one that worked better too!!!

I really like Debian. I like their philosophy as expressed their "Social Contract" ... Most good applications for Linux start here. But the Debian territory is more than a testing ground. It is the "homeland" so to speak of all Linux distros. The methodology of its developers, spread all around the world, is the most rigorous of all. This is truly perfection, and what Linux, and in general, what all Unices should be.

[tjj]

Glanz,
I did add a user, and gave myself access to everything? in the sudoers file.
Now Gnome starts up at log in, don't know how I managed that I already messed it up and can't get it back the way I want. Guess it is time to do some RTFM, after all.
I'm planning to another(!) reinstall next week, after adding som more ram and a larger drive I have around....and fixing my one-button mouse/track-pad...and...

[Glanz]

I believe that now the sudoers file MUST be edited via the command "visudo" command as ROOT. The man pages should explain how to write a sudoers file.

The "ALL=ALL" s you saw have to do with WHO gets to use the sudo command. Here's an example of a sudoers file:::

# User alias specs

User_Alias GEEKFACE=glanz
User_Alias SCREWUPERS=charlie, thecat, thegoldfish

# Host alias specification

# User privilege specs

GEEKFACE ALL=ALL
SCREWUPERS ALL=ALL

# End of the world as we knew it

That defines 2 user aliases; GEEKFACE & SCREWUPERS, where the former has only one user (glanz), and the latter has three. The user(s) listed in user alias GEEKFACE can run sudo on all hosts and all commands... He can do anything root can do..... Those listed after SCREWUPERS can do the same things.

I'll get back later on how to limit who does what on your machine if you wish

[tjj]

Well, if you have time for this kind of manuduction I want be the one to refuse advice. Presently, I'm the only one logging into Debian on that machine. Depending on how much use I can put it to, that might change.

[Glanz]

Quote: Originally posted by tjj Well, if you have time for this kind of manuduction I want be the one to refuse advice. Presently, I'm the only one logging into Debian on that machine. Depending on how much use I can put it to, that might change.

What I want to know is this::: is the only user ROOT. If so that's a no no..... But if you're doin' sudo stuff, there must be a user too,... right? You MUST HAVE one root and at least one user. NEVER NEVER hook up to internet as root. Using sudo there carefully from time to time is OK, but as root. NO.