MacBook Air.... MacBook Crap

[Sumleilmus]

Quote: Originally Posted by iampete Excuse me, I meant to ask for a credible guesstimate, rather than something pulled out of the air (or worse).

You don't like it because I did not use round numbers?

You don't like it because it was posted quickly?

If you possess knowledge to refute it, why would you ask?

This generally a good-mannered forum. I consider your response a lapse.

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig You weren't concerned about carrying a spare battery before, yet now you've turned "style conscious" because the spare battery I suggested doesn't look cool?

Not style, but inconvenient to carry when attached to the computer.

Once one swaps a battery, the handling/portability of the computer itself remains uncompromised. That is not the case for an external "attached-by-wire" battery.

[tw]

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig Why does your spare battery have to be internal. Many companies make external batteries for laptops. Here is one: http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=17894 Chris

I'm waiting until they make a foldable solar power unit.

[chabig]

Quote: Originally Posted by iampete Not style, but inconvenient to carry when attached to the computer. Once one swaps a battery, the handling/portability of the computer itself remains uncompromised. That is not the case for an external "attached-by-wire" battery.

So use the external battery when you aren't "carrying" the computer and use the internal battery when you are. Are you walking around with your computer a lot?

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sumleilmus You don't like it because I did not use round numbers? You don't like it because it was posted quickly? If you possess knowledge to refute it, why would you ask? This generally a good-mannered forum. I consider your response a lapse.

You are correct: this is generally a good-mannered forum - so good-mannered that most of the credible posters offer explanatory material to go along with their responses. The absence of even the most cursory explanation of how the values were arrived at, coupled with the smilie, led me to doubt the validity of your reply.

If I am in error and you actually did an assessment, I apologize.

I would appreciate it if you would provide a cursory explanation for how you arrived at the numbers. My reasons for asking the question originally is to try to understand for myself if there were good engineering reasons for not making the battery user accessible, or whether it was a form over function type of decision.

[anthlover]

Niche. Is it a big market? Will See. Will only sell to Niche? Hey Moto was pratically floated for awhile by thin Razrs. No one even seemed to care thay they were large and thin. They only cared that they were thin.

One more thought. How about those who can not carry heavy. Plenty of people with Bad Backs.

Price wise I did not see one post (maybe I missed it) comparing the mba to other subnotebooks price wise. Last I checked subs commanded a premium.

Will Apple lower the Price? If Apple thinks they need to they will. I do think the Ethernernet Adapter should be in the box.

[chabig]

Quote: Originally Posted by iampete My reasons for asking the question originally is to try to understand for myself if there were good engineering reasons for not making the battery user accessible, or whether it was a form over function type of decision.

Form versus function IS an engineering decision. Of course Apple had good reasons for making the battery internal.

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig . . . Are you walking around with your computer a lot?

Yeah, that's the problem. From a meeting room, to several laboratories, to a fab facility, to another meeting room in another building, to a test facility, to still another building and so on ad nauseum. Some of those allow me to use the computer at a desk or table, many do not. If I'm lucky, I can leave it plugged in for less than an hour while I'm having lunch.

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig So use the external battery when you aren't "carrying" the computer and use the internal battery when you are. . .

Actually, that might work. It's still somewhat inconvenient to "reconfigure" that often, but it just might be worth trying out.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig Form versus function IS an engineering decision. . .

In many instances, yes. But I meant the "form vs. function" question in the more commonly used sense: i.e., did they do it this way to make it sexier, or was there a technical reason (other than being driven by "beauty") for it?

Quote: Originally Posted by chabig . . .Of course Apple had good reasons for making the battery internal.

Care to share your thoughts? Other than the elimination of a compartment, connectors, and door which would have increased weight/volume, I sure can't think of any.

[Sumleilmus]

Well, I turned my MacBook Pro over, and looked at the slot where the removable battery goes - like some others who have posted here, I always have two batteries for a laptop - and began estimating. The plastic Apple uses for the battery housings, probably ABS, has a density of about 0.8 gm/cm^3, and for the aluminum alloy it's about 3. There are contacts, and the shell of removable battery one of whose surfaces forms part of the exterior surface of the notebook, and thus when in place must be part of its endoskeleton as well as of its exoskeleton, must be perforce thicker than that of an indwelling battery. Save for size, the comparison would be of the shell of an iPod battery and a MacBook, MacBook Pro, or similar battery. The shell would have a thickness that would displace contents, thus there would be less room for lithium-metal hydride, and fewer milliamp-hours.

You can verify using ChemTable, a freeware Palm OS app. I just checked elemental aluminum, and it's 2.7 gm/cm^3

No emoticon here, but I mean this in an explicatory manner. I hardly ever use emoticons, and this exchange will probably keep me off them for a few more years.

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sumleilmus . . . (explanation of user-replaceable battery impacts for MBA) . . .

Thanks for your explanation. It seems reasonable to me.

However, I think there are also structural issues that you haven't accounted for.

The battery for the MBA seems to extend for the entire width of the unit. This means that any design that either exposed the entire battery or contained a door to access the battery would result in a weakness in the structural integrity of the computer housing that would have to be compensated by a thicker shell or additional structure extending down the sides. Further, this would also result in reduction of stiffness of the narrowest part of the unit base unless that were also redesigned with stiffeners or a thicker housing.

Therefore, I would expect that in addition to the 117g you came up with, there would likely be some non-trivial additional mass associated with case redesign. I thought that getting a feel for just how much it was compared to the current mass might provide some clue why Apple chose to go with the current design.

[Sumleilmus]

Quote: Originally Posted by iampete The battery for the MBA seems to extend for the entire width of the unit.

Well, how do you know that? Has one been x-rayed? Taken apart? Taken apart, and better yet, photographed in that state? (link???)

Have you (or has someone) tapped on it, as though seeking a stud (in drywall or plaster)?

If so, and if it does so extend, it's a "popsicle stick" battery, an uncommon design indeed.

[iampete]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sumleilmus Well, how do you know that? . . .

Jobs' presentation at ~ time hack 01:02:04

<http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/f27853y2/event/index.html?internal=fj2l3s9dm>

[chabig]

Quote: Originally Posted by iampete Yeah, that's the problem. From a meeting room, to several laboratories, to a fab facility, to another meeting room in another building, to a test facility, to still another building and so on ad nauseum.

I see. I completely understand your predicament. It might just be that the Air is not the best choice for you. Given time, third parties may come up with a portable power solution for you.

[NovaScotian]

I suspect, in addition to comments already made, that the battery extends as it does because it is very thin. At the end of the day for a given technology and load, battery life correlates with battery volume. To make it as light as possible, it probably has a very thin and somewhat fragile jacket, is mounted at several points, and is soldered to the motherboard.

To make that removable requires a robust door (with latches) that extends across the entire back of the case, a physically robust battery sleeve (bending it would destroy it), a connector to receive the battery terminals (which shortens the battery's useful length and life), terminals on the battery itself mounted in a robust way to the battery's cover (again shortening it and possibly thickening it), and some means of attaching the battery physically in slides or latches so it won't bend in use. A built-in just blows those alternatives away.

PS: I am an Engineer and have experience (albeit a long time ago) designing electronic enclosures.

Further Edit: a removable battery must be of uniform dimensions for mounting. A built-in can just have a conformable coating -- no tight specs, just a limit on overall dimension. Cheaper.

[NovaScotian]

On a different front, the fact that the Air would fit in a recyclable office envelope was appealing to me. Leaving a laptop visible in a car is an invitation to a broken car window and lost laptop. Leaving a laptop in a well used envelope is not. Leaving the envelope in a pile of papers at a meeting and going to lunch is not too risky either. It looks like it would fit in the document section of a thin briefcase too. Easy to hide.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaScotian On a different front, the fact that the Air would fit in a recyclable office envelope was appealing to me. Leaving a laptop visible in a car is an invitation to a broken car window and lost laptop. Leaving a laptop in a well used envelope is not. Leaving the envelope in a pile of papers at a meeting and going to lunch is not too risky either. It looks like it would fit in the document section of a thin briefcase too. Easy to hide.

You can get envelopes that fit macbooks and macbook pros, so i don't see that as something only the Air could do, but I guess it could use a smaller envelope. Also, I don't see that as an advantage or a selling point.

I think the Air will be great for a very small niche market, and is not really a viable consumer item. Except for those people that always have to have the newest greatest techno gadget.

[NovaScotian]

It will be very interesting to see how it is received by non-geek professionals, TL; Lawyers, business execs, etc.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaScotian It will be very interesting to see how it is received by non-geek professionals, TL; Lawyers, business execs, etc.

Actually, the first practical use I thought of was lawyers. They have to travel from their office to the court house all the time back and forth. They need portability. They will also have the cash to have a decent infrastructure in their office. So they can go out and about with the Macbook Air, then come back and sync data over wireless, then repeat. They just need the Airbook for travel and court room work, everything else can be done at their desktop in their office which will have all the features the macbook Air doesn't. As long as they can sync the data with out a hitch I can see it happen. They also should have the money to build such an infrastructure to support this.

Researchers who need to be out in the field was my second user I could see using it.

[Jay Carr]

Students need this (in a lot of cases.) Taking a laptop from class to class, then setting it on a small desk in order to take notes. Plus, most major universities have wireless broadband...and computer labs where you could share an optical drive...plus most students are still quote concerned with the image they are projecting, and Apple is the 'it' thing in tech (at least on campus).

Um, folks, I think I just found the target market: Students. Get 'em while they're young, right?

PS- And don't bring up the poor college student argument. Yes, we are poor. But computers are at the top of most peoples "big purchases" list. If you've ever seen the number of Apple computers on a college campus before...yeah, price isn't going to be a problem.