Apple X11 and Fink...How To - Page 3

bluehz · 01-09-2003, 01:22 PM

sao - I moved the xmms topic to its own topic as it was getting a bit off topic in this thread. Also - if others are having the problem it might be easier to find for them.

If possible would you mind going there for replys on the xmms subject:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showth...&threadid=8378

sao · 01-09-2003, 04:25 PM

Till now I found the following problems with Apple X11:

Is missing "threaded" support.

Problems with window focus.

Difficulties running as a different user.

To get the "delete" key to really be a delete key.

Lack of cut-and-paste support for wm's that aren't quartz-wm.

If you want to send feedback about Apple X11 you can do it to the following Apple List:

http://www.lists.apple.com/x11-users

Cheers...

Glanz · 01-09-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by bluehz Anyone else notice that you are not able to HIDE the Apple-X11 in the background.

What exactly do you mean bu "hide"? I don't understand.

bluehz · 01-09-2003, 05:36 PM

Hide - as in put it in the background and "hide" (hide all the windows, etc) same as you can do with any other app.

Djibouti · 01-09-2003, 06:13 PM

I can't get x11 to work no matter what I do. I was working fine before with fink and XDarwin, but I really wanted to try this out.

So, I tried following all of the directions fink gave to switch to X11, but it didn't work. the SDK and program installed fine, but when I double clicked the icon nothing happened.

Then I tried completely removing everything. I rm -rf'd /sw, /X11, X11R6 and XDarwin.app.

I tried deleting .xinitrc, tried replacing it with something somebody suggested on page 1 or 2 of this thread, and still no luck.

What am I doing wrong?

Please help me!

Thank you,

--Jeremy

bluehz · 01-09-2003, 06:31 PM

Ooooooooh - I hope you didn't delete your /sw dir. Thats your Fink dir and pretty important. Although I don't think you need it to run the Apple-X11.

Djibouti · 01-09-2003, 07:00 PM

I know that it's my fink dir. I can deal with re-installing fink, it's not a big problem. I'm just trying to get rid of anything that could possibly have a conflict with X-11. Any ideas?

WillyT · 01-09-2003, 07:53 PM

I did some speed comparisons using glxgears.

Using the threaded fink install with Gnome and Enlightenment I was getting about 102 fps.

Uninstalled the fink XFree86 and installed Apples X11 and got 78fps with quartz-wm.

Moved back my old .xinitrc so using Gnome and Enlightenment and got 147fps. (had to launch from X11 Menu (glxgears > speed))

Had some probs with not being able to get to the surface when starting from Gnome and Enlightenment probably because they were built against the threaded version.

My opinion is Apple's X11 is faster than XFree86 without HW acceleration and Enlightenment is faster than quartz-wm.

It seems the wm makes more speed difference than the HW acceleration.

Now if they just fix the (0,0) coordinates and path and .xinitrc fall through (it should stop X11 when it exits shouldn't it. I remember OroborOSX had a kludgey script to fix that at one time)

Maybe I'll just wait for XFree86 4.3.
I never thought XFree86 was slow after I started using Enlightenment.

Willy

ps 400MHz G4 1.2GB
ATI Rage 128 AGP 16MB

Glanz · 01-09-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by WillyT I never thought XFree86 was slow after I started using Enlightenment. ps 400MHz G4 1.2GB ATI Rage 128 AGP 16MB

Have you tried Blackbox? I find it even faster than Enlightenment. The slowest of them all however, remains KDE......... I agree that the wm has more to do with speed than the XFree version or the X11 tweaks.

maclaxguy · 01-09-2003, 08:24 PM

I'm trying to install the system-xfree86, as instructed from Fink's site, and I'm getting this error:

dpkg: error processing /sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (--unpack):
subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
/sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb
E: Sub-process /sw/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

Can anyone tell me how I can get this installed? Thanks in advance

sao · 01-10-2003, 12:44 AM

maclaxguy,

Did you installed the 'X11 SDK' besides Apple X11?

I you did, reinstall it and after try again:

'fink install system-xfree86'

Cheers...

sao · 01-10-2003, 05:28 AM

More tips for Apple X11:

1- If you want more choices with fonts in Apple X11:

'fink install applesystemfont'

2- You can actually run both XDarwin and X11 side-by-side if you issue this command:

defaults write org.xfree86.XDarwin Display 1

(for the very brave)

3- If your delete key works in terminal.app but not in an xterm, try any of the following to see if it works for you:

"stty erase ^H"

xmodmap -e "keysym Delete = BackSpace"

xmodmap -e "keysym 59 = Delete"

4- For those who have a different keyboard and want to get it back in Apple X11, just lauch X11 from a terminal with:

/Applications/X11.app/Contents/MacOS/X11 --xquartz-be-xinit -keymap /System/Library/Keyboards/Francais.keymapping

(change to suit your 'language.keymapping')

Cheers...

agvaughan · 01-10-2003, 02:05 PM

Hey there,

Has anyone gotten this running with Matlab R13? I'd love to use this, but don't really understand what I might break if I try.

Thanks!
Alex

sao · 01-10-2003, 03:42 PM

agvaughan,

Testing Matlab with the new Apple X11:

In principle it works, as Apple X11 is not threaded. But the result will depend on your video card. It was tested on an iBook (clam shell, fall 2000, ATI Rage video). There it works, and it is amazingly fast. The hardware acceleration is real.

According to Martin Costabel (Fink developer), who did the test, in 3D hardware accelerated graphics as measured by matlab's benchmark, Apple's X11 (when it doesn't crash) is actually about 25% *slower* than the xfree86-4.2.99 cvs snapshot and only twice as fast than xfree86-4.2.1.

Go to Apple X11 web site page:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

Look closely at the screenshot. Do you notice which program is running? Then, look at the dock. Notice the icon with the 3-D Graphic?

Cheers...

Glanz · 01-10-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao defaults write org.xfree86.XDarwin Display 1 Cheers...

That's beautiful! hoodathunk anyways?

This is getting really interesting!

maclaxguy · 01-10-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao maclaxguy, Did you installed the 'X11 SDK' besides Apple X11? I you did, reinstall it and after try again: 'fink install system-xfree86' Cheers...

sao,
I remember having installed the SDK, but I went ahead and reinstalled it. Worked like a charm! Thanks.

julianwai · 01-12-2003, 11:16 AM

Hi,
I seems to have successfully installed fink. But when I tried to install a package (e.g. abiword), after downloading a whole bunch of packages, it says it cannot find cc. Have I missed something? I have already downloaded and installed X11 and the apple SDK.
Thanks

maclaxguy · 01-12-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by julianwai I seems to have successfully installed fink. But when I tried to install a package (e.g. abiword), after downloading a whole bunch of packages, it says it cannot find cc. Have I missed something? I have already downloaded and installed X11 and the apple SDK. Thanks

Did you install the Apple Developer Tools that came with Mac OS? It sounds like you didn't, as cc is the compiler, which is part of that package.

maclaxguy · 01-12-2003, 11:37 AM

Well, even though Fink went actually installed the xfree86 package, X11 is stil not working right.

To run programs, I must type the entire path. ie:
to run ethereal:
% /sw/bin/ethereal

to run nmap:
% /usr/local/bin/nmap

instead of just
% ethereal
or % nmap

Thanks,
Ben

sao · 01-12-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:


	maclaxguy wrote: Did you install the Apple Developer Tools that came with Mac OS

Actually, he needs to install the latest Apple Developer Tools from December 2002.

Released to online ADC members (free registration) from here:

http://connect.apple.com/

Cheers...

01-09-2003, 04:25 PM	#42
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Till now I found the following problems with Apple X11: Is missing "threaded" support. Problems with window focus. Difficulties running as a different user. To get the "delete" key to really be a delete key. Lack of cut-and-paste support for wm's that aren't quartz-wm. If you want to send feedback about Apple X11 you can do it to the following Apple List: http://www.lists.apple.com/x11-users Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-09-2003 at 05:15 PM.

01-09-2003, 07:53 PM	#48
WillyT Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Midwest Not quite Normal Posts: 416	Did some sloppy speed tests. I did some speed comparisons using glxgears. Using the threaded fink install with Gnome and Enlightenment I was getting about 102 fps. Uninstalled the fink XFree86 and installed Apples X11 and got 78fps with quartz-wm. Moved back my old .xinitrc so using Gnome and Enlightenment and got 147fps. (had to launch from X11 Menu (glxgears > speed)) Had some probs with not being able to get to the surface when starting from Gnome and Enlightenment probably because they were built against the threaded version. My opinion is Apple's X11 is faster than XFree86 without HW acceleration and Enlightenment is faster than quartz-wm. It seems the wm makes more speed difference than the HW acceleration. Now if they just fix the (0,0) coordinates and path and .xinitrc fall through (it should stop X11 when it exits shouldn't it. I remember OroborOSX had a kludgey script to fix that at one time) Maybe I'll just wait for XFree86 4.3. I never thought XFree86 was slow after I started using Enlightenment. Willy ps 400MHz G4 1.2GB ATI Rage 128 AGP 16MB

01-09-2003, 08:24 PM	#50
maclaxguy Prospect Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 24	Not working I'm trying to install the system-xfree86, as instructed from Fink's site, and I'm getting this error: dpkg: error processing /sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (--unpack): subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: /sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb E: Sub-process /sw/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Can anyone tell me how I can get this installed? Thanks in advance

01-10-2003, 05:28 AM	#52
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	More tips for Apple X11: 1- If you want more choices with fonts in Apple X11: 'fink install applesystemfont' 2- You can actually run both XDarwin and X11 side-by-side if you issue this command: defaults write org.xfree86.XDarwin Display 1 (for the very brave) 3- If your delete key works in terminal.app but not in an xterm, try any of the following to see if it works for you: "stty erase ^H" xmodmap -e "keysym Delete = BackSpace" xmodmap -e "keysym 59 = Delete" 4- For those who have a different keyboard and want to get it back in Apple X11, just lauch X11 from a terminal with: /Applications/X11.app/Contents/MacOS/X11 --xquartz-be-xinit -keymap /System/Library/Keyboards/Francais.keymapping (change to suit your 'language.keymapping') Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-10-2003 at 05:44 AM.

01-10-2003, 02:05 PM	#53
agvaughan Prospect Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1	Matlab? Hey there, Has anyone gotten this running with Matlab R13? I'd love to use this, but don't really understand what I might break if I try. Thanks! Alex

01-09-2003, 01:22 PM	#41
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	sao - I moved the xmms topic to its own topic as it was getting a bit off topic in this thread. Also - if others are having the problem it might be easier to find for them. If possible would you mind going there for replys on the xmms subject: http://forums.macosxhints.com/showth...&threadid=8378

01-09-2003, 05:36 PM	#44
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	Hide - as in put it in the background and "hide" (hide all the windows, etc) same as you can do with any other app.

01-09-2003, 06:13 PM	#45
Djibouti Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6	I can't get x11 to work no matter what I do. I was working fine before with fink and XDarwin, but I really wanted to try this out. So, I tried following all of the directions fink gave to switch to X11, but it didn't work. the SDK and program installed fine, but when I double clicked the icon nothing happened. Then I tried completely removing everything. I rm -rf'd /sw, /X11, X11R6 and XDarwin.app. I tried deleting .xinitrc, tried replacing it with something somebody suggested on page 1 or 2 of this thread, and still no luck. What am I doing wrong? Please help me! Thank you, --Jeremy

01-09-2003, 06:31 PM	#46
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	Ooooooooh - I hope you didn't delete your /sw dir. Thats your Fink dir and pretty important. Although I don't think you need it to run the Apple-X11.

01-09-2003, 07:00 PM	#47
Djibouti Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6	I know that it's my fink dir. I can deal with re-installing fink, it's not a big problem. I'm just trying to get rid of anything that could possibly have a conflict with X-11. Any ideas?

01-10-2003, 12:44 AM	#51
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	maclaxguy, Did you installed the 'X11 SDK' besides Apple X11? I you did, reinstall it and after try again: 'fink install system-xfree86' Cheers...

01-10-2003, 03:42 PM	#54
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	agvaughan, Testing Matlab with the new Apple X11: In principle it works, as Apple X11 is not threaded. But the result will depend on your video card. It was tested on an iBook (clam shell, fall 2000, ATI Rage video). There it works, and it is amazingly fast. The hardware acceleration is real. According to Martin Costabel (Fink developer), who did the test, in 3D hardware accelerated graphics as measured by matlab's benchmark, Apple's X11 (when it doesn't crash) is actually about 25% slower than the xfree86-4.2.99 cvs snapshot and only twice as fast than xfree86-4.2.1. Go to Apple X11 web site page: http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/ Look closely at the screenshot. Do you notice which program is running? Then, look at the dock. Notice the icon with the 3-D Graphic? Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-10-2003 at 03:48 PM.

01-12-2003, 11:16 AM	#57
julianwai Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1	Hi, I seems to have successfully installed fink. But when I tried to install a package (e.g. abiword), after downloading a whole bunch of packages, it says it cannot find cc. Have I missed something? I have already downloaded and installed X11 and the apple SDK. Thanks

01-12-2003, 11:37 AM	#59
maclaxguy Prospect Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 24	Well, even though Fink went actually installed the xfree86 package, X11 is stil not working right. To run programs, I must type the entire path. ie: to run ethereal: % /sw/bin/ethereal to run nmap: % /usr/local/bin/nmap instead of just % ethereal or % nmap Thanks, Ben