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Old 11-14-2007, 09:29 AM   #1
zzzuppp
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DiskWarrior questions

After installing Leopard on my Intel iMac G5,Time Machine fried my external HD (Lacie 200Gb) first time out-TM never completed,I got an error message,followed by the external's demise/refusal to mount.I had approx 25Gb of backups already on the external which I'm trying to get back using DiskWarrior 4.0.I'm fairly certain that the drive is dead,as it wouldn't mount after Time Machine had it's way and I couldn't repair it in Disk Utility.

Alsoft recommend that you don't use DW 4.0 on a Leopard drive just yet,so I booted from the DW DVD and put it to work on the external.
So far it's been running for 24 hours,the vast majority of which has been where it is now,in Step 5:Locating Directory data.
In this mode,a sign has come up
'Speed reduced by disk malfunction: (number)'.The number increases slowly,so far it's got to 716 in 24 hours.I realise that this is because the external is well and truly borked.It is still moving and the cursor still functions,which I know means that DW is working away still.
1) Can anyone tell me,based on the above info,how long it's likely to continue? I know that the affecting parameters are-speed of processor/extent of damage/size of HD. I've read about cases where it's gone on for as much as a week and occasionally more.There's probably a point-around 3-4 days-where I'd like my iMac back! Does the number refer to the amount of files or similar that it's managed to get into?
2) If and when it does complete,I understand that it shows you your files and you have the option to copy them to another drive if the disk is indeed dead.If so and I'm lucky enough to have some of my backup rescued,can I copy it to the (Leopard) iMac? Or is that potentially dangerous to Leopard? (NB they are ALL soundfiles-AIFF/mp3 etc).
I have another option of copying them to my partner's G4 (OSX 10.3.9) but would that mean plugging the drive into the G4 and having to run the DW all over again? (which is impossible,since she needs the computer more than once every 24 hours or more).
Any tips appreciated,particularly from experienced Diskwarrior users.
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Last edited by zzzuppp; 11-14-2007 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:09 AM   #2
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I've never seen it go for a week, but I have seen it run for 48 hours, but I don't know any way to predict how long it will take to complete. Just about the only problem I have with Disk Warrior is that it doesn't give much information about its progress. As you know, the "speed reduced by disk malfunction" does indicate a problem with the drive, but not necessarily that the drive is failing. More often, it has some bad blocks. If the disk were "dead", you'd not be getting Disk Warrior to run at all. I've had Disk Warrior give that error on a drive being rebuilt, but upon repairing the drive, it showed no further problems. It is still running smoothly after a couple of years. If it succeeds in rebuilding the file system and your data is visible, I'd leave it where it is, copy it in a normal fashion to your Leopard disk and then, if you feel that the drive is truly unreliable, replace the drive and move them back. From what I've read on Alsoft's pages, there is no danger to your Leopard drive if you have DW copy the files to it if that is preferable to you.

I'm not sure why you would need to run Disk Warrior again on your partner's machine if you chose to copy them there. I can see no reason to think that it should damage the file system on your partner's machine and unless that were the outcome, there would be no particular reason to run disk Disk Warrior.

Lastly, I can't help but wonder what is going on that Time Machine is associated with these problems. It is inconceivable to me that it causes any physical damage to the drive, so if may be, as some have suggested, that it merely exposes a problem on the drive that was latent. It may turn out to be good practice to run Disk Warrior -before- using Time Machine that first time. I think this is an unresolved puzzle at the moment.

A caveat here: I have never used Disk Warrior with Leopard, so whether that fact counts against me being experienced as a DW user, you must judge. I have, however, had numerous occasions to use the product on Jaguar and Tiger OSes.

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Old 11-14-2007, 10:37 AM   #3
appleman_design
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i would contact lacie, due to there problem listed on other sites and have them replace the drive.
Quote:
LaCie USB drives We're hearing of cases where an external LaCie drive, although seen by the Finder, is not seen by Time Machine. LaCie is giving the same advice we gave earlier: repartition the drive. But some users are reporting that this isn't helping. In some cases there seems to be a difference between USB and FireWire; for example, Time Machine might not back up to the drive when it is connected via USB, but will do so when the very same drive is connected via FireWire.

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Old 11-14-2007, 02:07 PM   #4
trevor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzuppp
Alsoft recommend that you don't use DW 4.0 on a Leopard drive just yet,so I booted from the DW DVD and put it to work on the external.

Although other people on the 'net have misreported this (including the usually-reliable MacFixit), in fact this statement is completely untrue. Here is Alsoft's page on Leopard Compatibility: http://alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html

In fact, you can run DiskWarrior 4.0 on a Leopard drive. You just can't run it booted to Leopard. So run it from the DiskWarrior CD, which is the way I would recommend it always be run anyway. And then, fix your Leopard hard drive.

ACLs were added to HFS+ between 10.3.x and 10.4.x, and so you should not run a Panther-era disk repair program on a Tiger or Leopard-era OS X drive. But there were no further changes to HFS+ between 10.4.x and 10.5.x, and drive repair programs from the Tiger era CAN be run on Leopard disks.

There were changes to the operating system frameworks, though, so you can't run DiskWarrior 4.0 while booted to Leopard. This is a different issue.

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Old 11-14-2007, 02:11 PM   #5
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If and when it does complete,I understand that it shows you your files and you have the option to copy them to another drive if the disk is indeed dead.If so and I'm lucky enough to have some of my backup rescued,can I copy it to the (Leopard) iMac? Or is that potentially dangerous to Leopard? (NB they are ALL soundfiles-AIFF/mp3 etc).

No, that's fine. Copy them to any disk you want, and have available.

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Old 11-14-2007, 03:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDV
Just about the only problem I have with Disk Warrior is that it doesn't give much information about its progress.

Yes it would be nice if it told you what it was doing in a bit more depth,or had some interim progress bars.Otherwise it's a bit like watching paint dry.
Incidentally is there a way of switching the screen off on an Intel G5 w/out switching the whole thing off? (remember it's booted from the disk so I can't get into Leopard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDV
I'm not sure why you would need to run Disk Warrior again on your partner's machine if you chose to copy them there. I can see no reason to think that it should damage the file system on your partner's machine and unless that were the outcome, there would be no particular reason to run disk Disk Warrior.

My understanding (which may well be erroneous) of the Alsoft FAQ is that there's a point in DW's progress where it shows what's possible so you can 'Replace' or simply ditch the drive-and at that point you can move old files to another HD BEFORE you Replace/ditch.Or have I got that muddled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDV
Lastly, I can't help but wonder what is going on that Time Machine is associated with these problems. It is inconceivable to me that it causes any physical damage to the drive, so if may be, as some have suggested, that it merely exposes a problem on the drive that was latent. It may turn out to be good practice to run Disk Warrior -before- using Time Machine that first time. I think this is an unresolved puzzle at the moment.

Well,maybe if my drive is restored to rude health and I can copy my files elsewhere,I might try TM again on the same drive and see what happens after DW has spruced it up.I don't really have anything more to lose
Thanks for your help,Joe.NB it's still grinding away 31 hours down the line.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevor
Although other people on the 'net have misreported this (including the usually-reliable MacFixit), in fact this statement is completely untrue. Here is Alsoft's page on Leopard Compatibility: http://alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html

In fact, you can run DiskWarrior 4.0 on a Leopard drive. You just can't run it booted to Leopard. So run it from the DiskWarrior CD, which is the way I would recommend it always be run anyway. And then, fix your Leopard hard drive.

ACLs were added to HFS+ between 10.3.x and 10.4.x, and so you should not run a Panther-era disk repair program on a Tiger or Leopard-era OS X drive. But there were no further changes to HFS+ between 10.4.x and 10.5.x, and drive repair programs from the Tiger era CAN be run on Leopard disks.

There were changes to the operating system frameworks, though, so you can't run DiskWarrior 4.0 while booted to Leopard. This is a different issue.

Trevor

Well,that's what I meant...as I said,it is booted from the disk.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzuppp
Well,that's what I meant...as I said,it is booted from the disk.

Ah. I interpreted the part where you said "and put it to work on the external." to mean that you were afraid to allow DiskWarrior to repair the filesystem of your internal boot drive that has Leopard installed on it.

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Old 11-15-2007, 03:49 AM   #9
zzzuppp
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I'm not about to start DWing the Leopard disk.
Meanwhile,43 hours in,and counting (1,200)
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:40 PM   #10
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Still going,56 + hours now.....
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:46 PM   #11
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Have you tried contacting Alsoft's technical support and asking them about this? My experience with Alsoft's tech support is that they are very knowledgeable, if a little grumpy at times. :-)

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Old 11-15-2007, 04:49 PM   #12
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The one thing I'm fairly sure of is that Disk Warrior will in fact TELL you if it can't proceed further; I certainly hope it -doesn't- tell you that, but until it does, I'd assume it is still scavenging data. Hope it isn't much longer.

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Old 11-15-2007, 05:22 PM   #13
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Scouring around in Google I've found several stories of people waiting a week-or more!-for DW to complete.Even if it gets past Step 5,it seems it can still spend another eternity finding overlaps in the next stage.It seems about 50-50 whether continuing is worth it-some had success,others not,and one report has Alsoft saying that if it gets beyond five days,it's not going to be worth any rescue; I'm not sure how much longer I can wait to use my computer (I'm on my partner's G4) and it's so slow after my iMac...)-but I did shell out 50 for the DW disk...
I think I'll give it one more night and then contact Alsoft,as you suggest,Trevor-just about to look up whether they have a UK outlet,since I'm in the UK.
It's an interesting opportunity to practice the art of patience. I think DW should come with a game you can play in Step 5 if you need to.
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Old 11-16-2007, 05:30 AM   #14
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Nearly three days now,still in Step 5.In DW 4.0 you get an increasing number when it gives the message 'Speed reduced due to disk malfunction'.Mine has reached 1,700+ and I found out from somewhere last night that it's an error count.It's clocking them up at a rate of about 25 an hour-pretty slow.
Presumably if Time Machine got about 20 minutes into backing up my iMac,there could be hundreds and thousands of 'errors' on a 200Gb drive?Does this 'number' mean anything to anyone?

Anyway,I've emailed Alsoft,since they don't have a UK number.Anyone in the States want to phone them on my behalf?
I can Paypal you your bill

Meanwhile is there a way of turning my iMac screen off,while letting DW warry away?
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:45 AM   #15
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Disk Warrior finally completed after THREE days.It showed up the following information-
50,206 (of 51,087 total) files had a damaged extended attribute that DW repaired.(Interestingly ALL these files were created by Time Machine.. the remaining 800-odd were files I already had on the HD)
100 missing folders recreated
etc etc

I then tried to get a 'Preview' so I could copy my rescued files but after beachballing away for 5 minutes,I got this error message-
'DW encountered an unexpected error while trying to mount Preview.Restart from DW,try rebuilding again.Errors 2160,2304.'

So I can't mount the external HD still even after DW has done its stuff.Just as an experiment I tried restarting/rebuilding again,and it looked as if the same sequence of grindingly slow process was about to start 'Speed reduced by disk malfunction' etc.

OK what I want to know is-is it worth it? is my external dead to all intents and purposes,and beyond hope?
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by zzzuppp
I then tried to get a 'Preview' so I could copy my rescued files but after beachballing away for 5 minutes,I got this error message-
'DW encountered an unexpected error while trying to mount Preview.Restart from DW,try rebuilding again.Errors 2160,2304.'

Did you get the chance to click the "Rebuild" button?

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Old 11-16-2007, 11:24 AM   #17
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I forgot to mention that DW said it wouldn't be able to do a Replace.

Yes,I did click 'Rebuild again,and as I say,it started grinding slowly through the HD again.I'm not currently in a position to let it slog away for 3 more days.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:47 AM   #18
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I forgot to mention that DW said it wouldn't be able to do a Replace.

Oops, I meant the Replace button.

In that case, I don't think it is worthwhile to run the whole thing again. Since DiskWarrior didn't "Replace", that means that you're at the same position now as before this entire three days of waiting. Running it again should just result in the same thing. Exactly.

So, you have two choices:

1. A data recover service, for example DriveSavers. This will be expensive, but they will probably be able to recover some of the data. You will have to replace the drive.

2. Replace the drive and restore whatever backup you have of the data, if you have any.

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Old 11-16-2007, 02:28 PM   #19
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Which is what I feared.
I wonder why DW suggested that I 'rebuild' again,if it still wasn't going to allow me to preview the drive?
A very few of those files,no,I don't have a backup,so they've gone down the river.
I'm not going to pay for DiskSavers,having already paid for Leopard to get Time Machine and then paid for DW to attempt to clear up the damage.

Last chance saloon-is there any hope in doing the old 'HD in the freezer' trick to try and grab those few files?
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:55 PM   #20
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I doubt that this is a situation where cooling the hard drive will have any effects that would help you. Your drive may have problems, but if it was able to withstand 3 days of work from Disk Warrior, it isn't likely that those are problems related to actual disk access. I just posted a note to another thread regarding a theoretical possibility, though no solution. I hope the hypothesis is wrong. http://forums.macosxhints.com/showth...t=80464&page=3

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