Can Mail.app do this?

Photek · 09-10-2007, 10:01 AM

So... we are going to have an off site server, and the Windows users are going to get email via Outlook via RPC over HTTPS.

Does anyone know if Mail.app will be happy with this?

here is some more info.... http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/...ange_2003.html

Quantumstate · 09-10-2007, 10:25 AM

Oh brother, your sysadmins are really lost. This is trying to turn a sow's ear (ancient RPC) into a silk purse. But they aren't alone; M$ already has .NET which would have done this; I guess they aren't making enough money, so now have made this ridiculous new Rube Goldberg way.

The sensible solution would have been sSMTP (465) and sPOP(995)(SSL email), which has been around for a while, and almost all hosting services already have it set up. All you have to do is set your mail client to get/send mail on the right ports. (I use it on Mail, although OS X can never remember my decision to accept the cert) This would have done the exact same thing, but with two fewer layers (RPC, HTTP), vastly faster, and already built-in.

But now your company's going to spend $tons on all the latest beta M$ software, and probably lock you out since this method is too stupid for Apple... (not to bring you down or anything)

I don't know how to jerryrig mail-through-RPC-through-HTTPs though, sorry.

Photek · 09-10-2007, 10:41 AM

okay.. cool.... That's one alternative solution in the bag...
and Yes.. our PC company do seem very keen to make as much money as possible!

Any others got any experience of this kinda solution.... CAlvarez?

I suppose one option is Entourage?!... or even Outlook via Crossover ?!?

tlarkin · 09-10-2007, 05:03 PM

well, i don't know all the details here but why not just get a web front end? If you own a license to exchange you already have this, and outlook has it built in. It's called OWA (Outlook Web Access), unless you absolutely need the RPC, which I honestly do not know too much about, other than what it is. I have never had to work with RPC before. However if you have HTTPS access via OWA all you need is a web browser, or a client that supported it. We have this set up but with groupwise (since we run novell) at work.

I can see if I can dig up some more info on it, here is a MS KBASE article.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/830827

Photek · 09-10-2007, 05:20 PM

thanks Tom...

after doing a lot of digging around on the internet (glass of red wine in hand)... I think I understand it a bit better now.... here are my findings:

MAPI (RCP over HTTPS) is MS closed technology.. therefore Outlook only.. period
Entourage 2004 will function so long as WebDAV is enabled... but may miss a few minor meeting room functions
Mail.app will function so long as IMAP is enabled and OWA set up, but obviously no AddressBook or Calendar functions.
Safari via OWA... but thats a bit of a pain... as you have to log in every bloody time.

the other option is Outlook for Windows running under CrossOver.

I think I will try to set up Mail.app first..... if that fails its Entourage (free thanks to user cals) and my final option is Outlook via Crossover.

tlarkin · 09-10-2007, 06:18 PM

Well, Mail.app does support IMAP, and LDAP which are two very widely used open source standards.

Also, the time out and log in/out on web based solutions is also a security feature. If someone access their mail remotely and forgets to log out or leaves their computer unsupervised, it will time the session out. So, authentication and time outs are a good thing, because you can never rely on the user to practice good security protocols.

Also, I would hold out until Leopard comes out. I had an interesting discussion with my Apple SE the other day about some things that may or may not be in the future. He had to be vague of course because you know, you can't leak anything. However, I think that Apple is starting to go towards the whole Enterprise thing, even though Jobs still states over and over Apple is a consumer only company.

09-10-2007, 10:01 AM	#1
Photek Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Warwick, UK Posts: 4,835	Can Mail.app do this? So... we are going to have an off site server, and the Windows users are going to get email via Outlook via RPC over HTTPS. Does anyone know if Mail.app will be happy with this? here is some more info.... http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/...ange_2003.html

09-10-2007, 10:25 AM	#2
Quantumstate Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle, Ecotopia Posts: 405	Oh brother, your sysadmins are really lost. This is trying to turn a sow's ear (ancient RPC) into a silk purse. But they aren't alone; M$ already has .NET which would have done this; I guess they aren't making enough money, so now have made this ridiculous new Rube Goldberg way. The sensible solution would have been sSMTP (465) and sPOP(995)(SSL email), which has been around for a while, and almost all hosting services already have it set up. All you have to do is set your mail client to get/send mail on the right ports. (I use it on Mail, although OS X can never remember my decision to accept the cert) This would have done the exact same thing, but with two fewer layers (RPC, HTTP), vastly faster, and already built-in. But now your company's going to spend $tons on all the latest beta M$ software, and probably lock you out since this method is too stupid for Apple... (not to bring you down or anything) I don't know how to jerryrig mail-through-RPC-through-HTTPs though, sorry. Last edited by Quantumstate; 09-10-2007 at 10:40 AM.

09-10-2007, 05:20 PM	#5
Photek Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Warwick, UK Posts: 4,835	thanks Tom... after doing a lot of digging around on the internet (glass of red wine in hand)... I think I understand it a bit better now.... here are my findings: MAPI (RCP over HTTPS) is MS closed technology.. therefore Outlook only.. period Entourage 2004 will function so long as WebDAV is enabled... but may miss a few minor meeting room functions Mail.app will function so long as IMAP is enabled and OWA set up, but obviously no AddressBook or Calendar functions. Safari via OWA... but thats a bit of a pain... as you have to log in every bloody time. the other option is Outlook for Windows running under CrossOver. I think I will try to set up Mail.app first..... if that fails its Entourage (free thanks to user cals) and my final option is Outlook via Crossover. Last edited by Photek; 09-10-2007 at 05:23 PM.

09-10-2007, 10:41 AM	#3
Photek Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Warwick, UK Posts: 4,835	okay.. cool.... That's one alternative solution in the bag... and Yes.. our PC company do seem very keen to make as much money as possible! Any others got any experience of this kinda solution.... CAlvarez? I suppose one option is Entourage?!... or even Outlook via Crossover ?!?

09-10-2007, 05:03 PM	#4
tlarkin League Commissioner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 11,352	well, i don't know all the details here but why not just get a web front end? If you own a license to exchange you already have this, and outlook has it built in. It's called OWA (Outlook Web Access), unless you absolutely need the RPC, which I honestly do not know too much about, other than what it is. I have never had to work with RPC before. However if you have HTTPS access via OWA all you need is a web browser, or a client that supported it. We have this set up but with groupwise (since we run novell) at work. I can see if I can dig up some more info on it, here is a MS KBASE article. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/830827

09-10-2007, 06:18 PM	#6
tlarkin League Commissioner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 11,352	Well, Mail.app does support IMAP, and LDAP which are two very widely used open source standards. Also, the time out and log in/out on web based solutions is also a security feature. If someone access their mail remotely and forgets to log out or leaves their computer unsupervised, it will time the session out. So, authentication and time outs are a good thing, because you can never rely on the user to practice good security protocols. Also, I would hold out until Leopard comes out. I had an interesting discussion with my Apple SE the other day about some things that may or may not be in the future. He had to be vague of course because you know, you can't leak anything. However, I think that Apple is starting to go towards the whole Enterprise thing, even though Jobs still states over and over Apple is a consumer only company.