What the fink?! - Page 2

mervTormel · 05-20-2002, 01:48 PM

a little poking around revealed that fink's update-passwd is a sh script, which loads user data from /sw/etc/passwd-fink

so, you could install fink's passwd, say no to the request to add users, comment out the users you don't want defined in passwd-fink file, then run update passwd. i don't know what the net effect of this is, tho.

question: why do you feel the need to install fink's passwd?

$ file /sw/sbin/update-passwd
/sw/sbin/update-passwd: Bourne shell script text

$ less /sw/sbin/update-passwd
#!/bin/sh
#
# Merge Fink's passwd and group additions into NetInfo
#

if [ `id -u` -ne 0 ]; then
echo "You must be root to run update-passwd."
exit 1
fi
<snip>

$ cat /sw/etc/passwd-fink
==> /sw/etc/passwd-fink <==
#
# Fink passwd additions
#
# IDs are in the range 250..299
#
news:*:250:250::0:0:News Server:/dev/null:/dev/null
mysql:*:251:251::0:0:MySQL Database Server:/dev/null:/dev/null
pgsql:*:252:252::0:0:PostgreSQL Database Server:/dev/null:/dev/null
games:*:253:253::0:0:Game Files Owner:/dev/null:/dev/null
canna:*:254:254::0:0:Canna Japanese Input Server:/dev/null:/dev/null
#don't duplicate postfix
#postfix:*:255:255::0:0:Postfix Mail Transfer Agent:/sw/var/spool/postfix:
/dev/null
tomcat:*:257:257::0:0:Tomcat Servlet Engine:/sw/var/tomcat4:/dev/null
jabber:*:258:258::0:0:Jabber Messaging Server:/dev/null:/dev/null

the f_username technique is to satisfy the requirement for a user id for a fink package without colliding with an existing user, and also tagging the user for the fink product.

[ edit: just reviewd the thread and this seems redundant. what i would wonder is 'are the fink packages username or uid driven?' in other words, if i installed the pgsql package, is it dependent on user 'pgsql' or uid '252'? if it's username, and you've changed it to f_username, there'll be either some additional tweaking, or a loud thud. ]

sao · 05-20-2002, 02:40 PM

Ellen,

You can do several different things according to your needs:

1. Install the passwd package and say no to the new users installation. In this way you protect your already installed postfix user.

2. Answer yes to the installation of the new users by passwd, but change in the same files as I did, the name of the user (in your case postfix) in order that passwd doesn't overwrite your own postfix user. You actually can change the name at the moment of installation, in another window, before you say 'yes'. Also in this case your already established user will be protected.

3. If you installed the new users and someday, you see no use for them, you can always delete them. But I would only recommend doing that through niutil, nicl or Netinfo Manager.

4. If you answered no and the need arises for any of these users, you can create them later.

Personally, those extra users don't bother me at all, and maybe the creation of those users to own and manage the resources (e.g. mysql), is not the only reason to install passwd in the fink directory.

Good luck.

MervTormel, what is then the meaning they tell us when we start the passwd package installation:

" You can make adjustments to the files /sw/etc/passwd-fink and /sw/etc/group-fink now (from another window), then say yes here."

I think that if I changed the user name to 'fmysql' I wouldn't install mysql with fink.

Cheers...

PS: Sorry people, I'm going to sleep, it's 3 AM here. And my brain doesn't function anymore. See you all later...

Ellen · 05-20-2002, 02:48 PM

Not sure about all this. As far as I see (and that isn't far at this point) you don't have any time to fix or change files when you launch an install with Fink, unless it is specifically provided for by the installer.

And there is, to my limited understanding, no Fink-installed postfix stuff with passwd, except for the creation of the postfix user, with a number of others that may or may not be of use in the future. Anyway, if one plans to use Postfix, the user must be named postfix and not something else. It is probably hardcoded in the program itself. So the fpostfix user will never be of any use. What I see is that if this postfix (or other user) is created and, for some reason, one doesn't want it, it seems better -- for Fink -- to change its name than to remove it altogether.

What I need to know, before installing anything that depends on passwd, is if I will be given the chance to change the name of the new postfix user or otherwise prevent the overwriting of my existing postfix user.

Ellen

[edit : I didn't see sao's reply before posting. So it seems that the installer lets you decide what to do with the users before creating them. Good. I think it would be better to say no to the postfix user in my case.] If I ever want to reinstall Postfix with Fink, there will surely be a way to fix it.]

sao · 05-20-2002, 03:07 PM

Ellen,

Good, I just read your edited post, as I was answering again.

Now, goodnight all...

Zzzzzzz

Cheers...

mervTormel · 05-20-2002, 03:34 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by Ellen Not sure about all this. As far as I see (and that isn't far at this point) you don't have any time to fix or change files when you launch an install with Fink, unless it is specifically provided for by the installer.

true, unless it requests input to continue, then you may open another window and fiddle, but this requires previous knowledge.

Quote:


	And there is, to my limited understanding, no Fink-installed postfix stuff with passwd, except for the creation of the postfix user, with a number of others that may or may not be of use in the future.

true. nothing but user and groups are affected by installing passwd. but the consequences are loaded if you have existing usernames or uid's that are stepped on.

Quote:


	Anyway, if one plans to use Postfix, the user must be named postfix and not something else. It is probably hardcoded in the program itself. So the fpostfix user will never be of any use.

not entirely true. hopefully the fink pkg will break and sometimes a good error is better than a holocaust.

Quote:


	What I see is that if this postfix (or other user) is created and, for some reason, one doesn't want it, it seems better -- for Fink -- to change its name than to remove it altogether.

true. better for fink and you. you leave an audit trail as a reminder. deleting things leaves no reminder.

Quote:


	What I need to know, before installing anything that depends on passwd, is if I will be given the chance to change the name of the new postfix user or otherwise prevent the overwriting of my existing postfix user.

yes and no. if the passwd package is installed, it is detected and bypassed when installing subsequent dependent pkgs, regardless of what netinfo reflects about the usernames.

if you are concerned about collisions, use the proscribed technique here... get passwd staged to install, when it asks to go ahead and do it, fix up the files
/sw/etc/passwd-fink and /sw/etc/group-fink (in another window) and then unleash hell.

ellen, i'm afeared that this is getting confusing and distorted. i will let this digest for a while, then re-examine the thread.

Ellen · 05-20-2002, 03:47 PM

mervTormel,

To me it is getting much clearer. But I will have to let it go for now as other duties call. Thanks for all the help.

Ellen

mervTormel · 05-20-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao ...what is then the meaning they tell us when we start the passwd package installation: " You can make adjustments to the files /sw/etc/passwd-fink and /sw/etc/group-fink now (from another window), then say yes here." I think that if I changed the user name to 'fmysql' I wouldn't install mysql with fink...

sao, i think that means exactly what we've been squirrelling with here. if there's going to be a collision with username and/or uid, then that's your chance to open another window and edit the appropriate file so that the collision is averted.

we don't know the results of having a fink package installed and that user named f_username, yet. perhaps someday someone will configure this profile and we'll know more.

but we do know that duplicate usernames are not allowed (stomp) and the stomp would cause larger problems than i care to ponder. and shared uid's are problematic (they are, trust me).

sao · 05-20-2002, 10:41 PM

Thanks, MervTormel, I agree with you, we might have here some unanswered questions at the moment.

Let me clarify somethings:

I had already passwd installed and I had say no to the new users when I did the installation.

Then, I changed, in the two files mentioned before, the name of 'user mysql' to 'fmsql'.

Next I did : 'fink rebuild passwd'

This time I answered yes to the installation of the new users.

Passwd went ahead and installed the new users with my changed 'fmysql' user.

I had no intention of installing Mysql through Fink, (I rather use the Mysql package from Marc Linayage).

What about, if now, I would install Mysql from Marc, will the installation share the same uid's with fink's ?

And like you said, we don't know what would happened if I did install Mysql with Fink, now that I have a user named f_mysql.

Well, I guess we must try it someday.

Cheers...

mervTormel · 05-21-2002, 01:27 AM

Quote:


	What about, if now, I would install Mysql from Marc, will the installation share the same uid's with fink's ?

no, not normally. yes, if they both used the same uid.

a username is merely a tag in the uid record of a user; in fact, username has to be unique, uid can be shared, though it is considered bad form.

userA:500
userB:501
userC:500

userA and userC are unique usernames, but have the same uid and can indiscriminately modify owner=500 files. but which user (password) logged in and modified files? bad situation - common in the past with system administration by committee or user accounts that needed to manage the same files. extremely poor practice.

when you see a username, it's just a representation of the uid->username mapping; the underlying uid number is presented to us with the more meaningful username. it's a brain situation.

so, the question you need to explore is: what username/uid does a package operate under? and do they merely use the username mapping?

if they use a numeric uid form, they then look up their username and you're good to go. if they use an expected 'username' and you've changed it to f_username, you've got some wrangling to do. obviously, the better form is to use the uid.

what uid does Linayage vs. fink use?

sao · 05-21-2002, 03:11 AM

MervTormel.

Thanks, I have a better idea now.

I don't remember which uid Liyanage use . I installed his Mysql package in my previous machine. Haven't installed it in this one yet.

Will install it soon, to check what will happen.

But now, I'm off with all the family to a futbol (soccer) match between my country, "Uruguay" and the national team of "Singapore". It's their last match before the World Cup in Japan. So, I don't want to miss it (already prepared the flags).

See you all later.

Cheers...

05-20-2002, 01:48 PM	#21
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	a little poking around revealed that fink's update-passwd is a sh script, which loads user data from /sw/etc/passwd-fink so, you could install fink's passwd, say no to the request to add users, comment out the users you don't want defined in passwd-fink file, then run update passwd. i don't know what the net effect of this is, tho. question: why do you feel the need to install fink's passwd? $ file /sw/sbin/update-passwd /sw/sbin/update-passwd: Bourne shell script text $ less /sw/sbin/update-passwd #!/bin/sh # # Merge Fink's passwd and group additions into NetInfo # if [ `id -u` -ne 0 ]; then echo "You must be root to run update-passwd." exit 1 fi <snip> $ cat /sw/etc/passwd-fink ==> /sw/etc/passwd-fink <== # # Fink passwd additions # # IDs are in the range 250..299 # news::250:250::0:0:News Server:/dev/null:/dev/null mysql::251:251::0:0:MySQL Database Server:/dev/null:/dev/null pgsql::252:252::0:0:PostgreSQL Database Server:/dev/null:/dev/null games::253:253::0:0:Game Files Owner:/dev/null:/dev/null canna::254:254::0:0:Canna Japanese Input Server:/dev/null:/dev/null #don't duplicate postfix #postfix::255:255::0:0:Postfix Mail Transfer Agent:/sw/var/spool/postfix: /dev/null tomcat::257:257::0:0:Tomcat Servlet Engine:/sw/var/tomcat4:/dev/null jabber::258:258::0:0:Jabber Messaging Server:/dev/null:/dev/null the f_username technique is to satisfy the requirement for a user id for a fink package without colliding with an existing user, and also tagging the user for the fink product. [ edit: just reviewd the thread and this seems redundant. what i would wonder is 'are the fink packages username or uid driven?' in other words, if i installed the pgsql package, is it dependent on user 'pgsql' or uid '252'? if it's username, and you've changed it to f_username, there'll be either some additional tweaking, or a loud thud. ] Last edited by mervTormel; 05-20-2002 at 02:00 PM.

05-20-2002, 02:40 PM	#22
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Ellen, You can do several different things according to your needs: 1. Install the passwd package and say no to the new users installation. In this way you protect your already installed postfix user. 2. Answer yes to the installation of the new users by passwd, but change in the same files as I did, the name of the user (in your case postfix) in order that passwd doesn't overwrite your own postfix user. You actually can change the name at the moment of installation, in another window, before you say 'yes'. Also in this case your already established user will be protected. 3. If you installed the new users and someday, you see no use for them, you can always delete them. But I would only recommend doing that through niutil, nicl or Netinfo Manager. 4. If you answered no and the need arises for any of these users, you can create them later. Personally, those extra users don't bother me at all, and maybe the creation of those users to own and manage the resources (e.g. mysql), is not the only reason to install passwd in the fink directory. Good luck. MervTormel, what is then the meaning they tell us when we start the passwd package installation: " You can make adjustments to the files /sw/etc/passwd-fink and /sw/etc/group-fink now (from another window), then say yes here." I think that if I changed the user name to 'fmysql' I wouldn't install mysql with fink. Cheers... PS: Sorry people, I'm going to sleep, it's 3 AM here. And my brain doesn't function anymore. See you all later... Last edited by sao; 05-20-2002 at 03:25 PM.

05-20-2002, 02:48 PM	#23
Ellen Prospect Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 24	Not sure about all this. As far as I see (and that isn't far at this point) you don't have any time to fix or change files when you launch an install with Fink, unless it is specifically provided for by the installer. And there is, to my limited understanding, no Fink-installed postfix stuff with passwd, except for the creation of the postfix user, with a number of others that may or may not be of use in the future. Anyway, if one plans to use Postfix, the user must be named postfix and not something else. It is probably hardcoded in the program itself. So the fpostfix user will never be of any use. What I see is that if this postfix (or other user) is created and, for some reason, one doesn't want it, it seems better -- for Fink -- to change its name than to remove it altogether. What I need to know, before installing anything that depends on passwd, is if I will be given the chance to change the name of the new postfix user or otherwise prevent the overwriting of my existing postfix user. Ellen [edit : I didn't see sao's reply before posting. So it seems that the installer lets you decide what to do with the users before creating them. Good. I think it would be better to say no to the postfix user in my case.] If I ever want to reinstall Postfix with Fink, there will surely be a way to fix it.] Last edited by Ellen; 05-20-2002 at 02:57 PM.

05-20-2002, 03:07 PM	#24
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Ellen, Good, I just read your edited post, as I was answering again. Now, goodnight all... Zzzzzzz Cheers...

05-20-2002, 03:47 PM	#26
Ellen Prospect Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 24	mervTormel, To me it is getting much clearer. But I will have to let it go for now as other duties call. Thanks for all the help. Ellen

05-20-2002, 10:41 PM	#28
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Thanks, MervTormel, I agree with you, we might have here some unanswered questions at the moment. Let me clarify somethings: I had already passwd installed and I had say no to the new users when I did the installation. Then, I changed, in the two files mentioned before, the name of 'user mysql' to 'fmsql'. Next I did : 'fink rebuild passwd' This time I answered yes to the installation of the new users. Passwd went ahead and installed the new users with my changed 'fmysql' user. I had no intention of installing Mysql through Fink, (I rather use the Mysql package from Marc Linayage). What about, if now, I would install Mysql from Marc, will the installation share the same uid's with fink's ? And like you said, we don't know what would happened if I did install Mysql with Fink, now that I have a user named f_mysql. Well, I guess we must try it someday. Cheers...

05-21-2002, 03:11 AM	#30
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	MervTormel. Thanks, I have a better idea now. I don't remember which uid Liyanage use . I installed his Mysql package in my previous machine. Haven't installed it in this one yet. Will install it soon, to check what will happen. But now, I'm off with all the family to a futbol (soccer) match between my country, "Uruguay" and the national team of "Singapore". It's their last match before the World Cup in Japan. So, I don't want to miss it (already prepared the flags). See you all later. Cheers...