Vista prices

[Anti]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin yeah i just saw this, it was pretty damn hilarious....

Best line ever.

"You have just come to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?"
".....allow..."

[trumpet_999]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anti Best line ever. "You have just come to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?" ".....allow..."

yeah that new security one is pretty funny - apple don't waste any time getting on the 'bash vista' bandwagon hey...

[CAlvarez]

That was awesome.

And accurate, sadly.

[ArcticStones]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anti Best line ever. "You have just come to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?" ".....allow..."

Uhm, wouldn’t the "Allow" command be a bit out of character?

[ArcticStones]

Quote: Originally Posted by trumpet_999 yeah that new security one is pretty funny - apple don't waste any time getting on the 'bash vista' bandwagon hey...

That’s exactly what I think they should do.

In fact I have a proposal for a series of advertisements:
Basically two parts: A list of OSX viruses on the left, and Vista viruses on the right. To be updated and run once a month or so as full page ads in major newspapers.

I think that would be pretty devastating!


With a pointed intro at top. Add payoff at bottom:
"If you need to run Vista, even that is safest on a Mac."

[CAlvarez]

Vista is so bad. So horribly broken. They SHOULD capitalize on it. They just need to be careful and not turn public opinion against themselves.

Vista is the reason I switched to a Mac (back when it was called Longhorn). I loaded it up, saw just how doomed Windows was, ordered a PowerBook, transferred the data, put my Dell on eBay, and that was it.

Maybe I understate myself: Vista is horribly broken.

[schneb]

Compare the excitement of both OS rollouts. You would think that Vista would garner a great deal of excitement since XPs introduction six years ago. Is everyone excited? No, everyone seems to have the same opinion--wait a year and let all the bugs be ironed out.

Compare that with OSX. Every year, something new and cool, with very little fear of security breaches or bugs shutting down your industry.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by schneb Compare the excitement of both OS rollouts. You would think that Vista would garner a great deal of excitement since XPs introduction six years ago. Is everyone excited? No, everyone seems to have the same opinion--wait a year and let all the bugs be ironed out. Compare that with OSX. Every year, something new and cool, with very little fear of security breaches or bugs shutting down your industry.

This is true and false in some senses, and only really true to the fan boys of both sides. Go over to a windows centric forum and they are all in denial about any problem vista has, and they love it.

As for OS X, I have not really been that excited about the new releases all that much, I was excited kind of about panther but tiger just seemed like a minor upgrade and apple changed things around on me, which was annoying for a support stand point. As for leopard the features they boasted about they did not present at mac world, which shocked me. Also, the features they are offering really don't excite me as much as they may someone else. I am a big fan of third party apps because I like to pick and choose what I run, which is why I leaning towards linux now because of the vast amount of flavors I can choose from, or even build my own (like via gentoo distro).

Vista however is bugged, and MS broke like compatability with like everything and we probably won't consider rolling it out for at least 24 months until everything is fixed again...or until we are forced to upgrade.

[schneb]

I think it was Automator and Spotlight (flawed as it may be) that really pushed me over to buy Tiger. Unfortunately, Apple created these great pair of apps, then absolutely STOPPED fixing or adding to it. They messed up GarageBand by not adding user-wants but rather pushed Podcast creation (which should have been a separate iLife app). On the other hand, the move to HD for iMovie and iDVD were awesome. So I guess it just depends.

I am curious about Time Machine, and really like seeing the Sharing possibilities... but there needs to be more--and I'm not talking more themes.

If they offered a suite of Actions for Automator, that would be awesome. I need more control over Quicktime Pro, Finder, iTunes etc.

If they listened to users and fixed the woes of Spotlight, and offered a utility to transfer comments to and from IPTC or EXIF, or create backup spreadsheet data--that would capture my attention as well.

[ArcticStones]

Quote: Originally Posted by CAlvarez That was awesome. And accurate, sadly.

Notice that "Mac" doesn’t even get a word in?
I like Apple’s straight-to-the-point follow-up text on its website:

"114,000 Viruses? Not on a Mac.

Mac OS X was designed for high security, so it isn’t plagued by constant attacks from viruses and malware like PCs. Likewise, it isn’t plagued by never-ending security dialog boxes like those in Vista. So you can safely go about your work -- or fun -- without interruption."

PS Anyone started counting Vista viruses yet?

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by schneb I think it was Automator and Spotlight (flawed as it may be) that really pushed me over to buy Tiger. Unfortunately, Apple created these great pair of apps, then absolutely STOPPED fixing or adding to it. They messed up GarageBand by not adding user-wants but rather pushed Podcast creation (which should have been a separate iLife app). On the other hand, the move to HD for iMovie and iDVD were awesome. So I guess it just depends. I am curious about Time Machine, and really like seeing the Sharing possibilities... but there needs to be more--and I'm not talking more themes. If they offered a suite of Actions for Automator, that would be awesome. I need more control over Quicktime Pro, Finder, iTunes etc. If they listened to users and fixed the woes of Spotlight, and offered a utility to transfer comments to and from IPTC or EXIF, or create backup spreadsheet data--that would capture my attention as well.

Yup we had a network consultant in the other day and he ran SUSE linux on his laptop and I had a small chat with him (since I run SuSE on a few machines) and me and him both came to the conclusion we have no favorite OS, because all the OSes we run have flaws that bother us enough to not choose a favorite. Some of these flaws could be preferences and some are maybe "a lack of features, or a feature lacking options, control, etc"

So really as of now I have no favorite OS, but I am building a new gaming machine (e6600 high end video card, 2gig ram, etc) to play the few games I like and it will have to run windows on it. However, my current AMD 64 3400+ machine is going to become a nice powerful Linux desktop. I really want to mess around with beryl and compiz but do not have a powerful enough video card in any of my linux boxes at the moment. I will have a nice ati radeon 9800 pro 256meg here shortly free that will power my new linux desktop. I am more excited about that than vista or leopard lol.

The feature I look forward the most in Leopard is the multiple desktops.

I do have a copy of vista ultimate that just shipped to me (earlier I bought a combo of intel motherobard + e6300 processor + vista ultimate for $200, couldn't pass up on it was too good of a deal) and since I bought it about 2 months ago I got a voucher for Vista, and I just got an email last night saying it shipped. Vista will sit on my desk for a long time, unless MS does something stupid like only put out DX10 support for vista, since all the new video cards are DX10 and so are all the new games, I could very well be forced to install vista ultimate on my gaming rig. I plan on getting a nice 400 dollar PCI-E DX10 video card, and if xp doesn't come out with DX10 support I may just be screwed. I am in the middle of building my system now so its not complete, and hopefully in the next month or two when I do complete it (tax return, and selling an old ibook) hopefully MS will release DX10 support for XP. Otherwise I am not going to get some features of newer cards.

[tlarkin]

well it seems that MS is still going to be stupid. i swore up and down I read somewhere that they were going to release DX10 for windows XP, and after googling it for like 30 minutes I have found out I must have been smoking crack. They are still saying no DX10 support for windows XP. Which means if any gamer wants to get a new DX10 video card they are forced to upgrade to benefit from it. It also means that developers who wish to use DX10 technology in their applications are forced to raise their minumum requirements to windows vista.

SMB2 increases packets sent and received by 1500% (they say its technology scaling to IPv6 and that it won't effect anything!).

DX10 is a forced upgrade to vista

Super Heavy DRM oriented media...You want to play back your media in high def? Well for the OS to allow this you must have the right DRM hash code or it gets downgraded. I can only assume every hacker in the world can't wait to break this feature, espeically those ones over in norway where DRM is like illegal or whatever...

The marketing alone makes me mad, the only difference between home premium and ultimate is file encyrption and the ability to connect to domain networks. Both of those things a home user will never need, and people want the "ultimate" so whatever

I do remember MS saying no IE7 for XP but they released it anyways. I can only assume it was because firefox was kicking their teeth in with more users. So, hopefully they won't force DX10 as an upgrade to vista because I really just want to stay with XP on my gaming box.....

[trumpet_999]

thanks one thing i like about you tlarkin, you for the most part, can see both sides of the moon, you're a windows and mac user, which ensures i pretty much read your posts on the topic.

did you expect anything less on Microsoft's handling of the DX10 issue? As soon as Vista has rolled out, support for XP will have flown out the window, another clever marketing technique so certain users will be forced to buy Vista, not just wait for it to be pre-packaged on their next PC

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by trumpet_999 thanks one thing i like about you tlarkin, you for the most part, can see both sides of the moon, you're a windows and mac user, which ensures i pretty much read your posts on the topic. did you expect anything less on Microsoft's handling of the DX10 issue? As soon as Vista has rolled out, support for XP will have flown out the window, another clever marketing technique so certain users will be forced to buy Vista, not just wait for it to be pre-packaged on their next PC

Thanks, I thought it was like a finger pointing at the moon

Yeah I expected as much, I guess I was just in denial about it. I have two official free copies of vista coming my way (3 if you count my works MSDN subscription) so its not like I have to pay for it, but at the same time it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[trumpet_999]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin Thanks, I thought it was like a finger pointing at the moon Yeah I expected as much, I guess I was just in denial about it. I have two official free copies of vista coming my way (3 if you count my works MSDN subscription) so its not like I have to pay for it, but at the same time it just doesn't make any sense to me.

It might not make sense to you in terms of what type of user YOU are, but for the average joe-blo, Microsoft will effortlessly squeeze another dollar-by-default out of them. It's unfair and pretty low really. To put this scenario into mac terms would be like 10.5 coming out soon, therefore all applecare support and software update for Tiger finishing, which wont happen and is absurd! I was on 10.3 for eons after Tiger came out, but I still enjoyed full support from Apple for everything.

[tlarkin]

So, I just got back from the vista training from the MS Technet training tour. MS has done a few cool things with vista actually I was unaware about. For one, vista now finally makes all users just run as plain old Joe Users. They no longer will need to run as admin just like well, every other decent OS in existence. Also everything is now under the \Users directory and not in the "documents and settings" one. Which is nice.

The most impressive thing I saw was MS Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT) which runs on every client machine in your originization and then outputs data into a lieghtweight database for your viewing pleasure. It lists everything that is currently running on your client machines from hardware to software and it then tells you if it is vista compatible or not. it also offers you three different sets of sources for fixes or explaniations. One from MS, one from the vendor (if third party) and one from the community (ie all those error reports you submitted) so you can get the whole picture. This is a great tool, and gives the IT people a completely awesome full resource of what is on your client machines and how to fix it if you can or if it is compatible. It will also tell you what you will have to uninstall before upgrading. Pretty cool when you have 1000s of computers on your network and want to eventually roll out a new OS.

I got three pages of notes I took...

Also, I was the only person there with a mac, hahaha had my macbook pro out. When someone made a comment to me about it, I said, "Hey, I'm running windows on it!" That got some good laughs out of people.

[ArcticStones]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin ...Vista now finally makes all users just run as plain old Joe Users. They no longer will need to run as admin... The most impressive thing I saw was MS Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT)... This is a great tool, and gives the IT people a completely awesome full resource of what is on your client machines and how to fix it... Also, I was the only person there with a mac... "Hey, I'm running windows on it!"

Those are fascinating hightlights! Sounds like Microsoft MS has placed a strong emphasis on retaining as much as possible of their competitive advantage at the Enterprise Level.

I may not ever run Windows again (except, perhaps, to make use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking), but it’s good to hear that Microsoft’s OS has moved into the 21st century, even if it is somewhat belatedly.

[cwtnospam]

Quote: Originally Posted by ArcticStones Sounds like Microsoft MS has placed a strong emphasis on retaining as much as possible of their competitive advantage at the Enterprise Level.

And why wouldn't they? It's the one thing that stands between them and financial ruin. They can make lousy products from now til doomsday. It won't hurt them at all. As long as they've got corporate IT locked up, there will be plenty of users who think they have to buy Windows for home use too.

I wish Apple would make another run at the enterprise. Maybe after the iPhone proves it's a hit.

[ArcticStones]

Quote: Originally Posted by cwtnospam I wish Apple would make another run at the enterprise. Maybe after the iPhone proves it's a hit.

So do I. But I’ll tell you why I think this is good news: It ups the ante, which means Apple has to come up with som really great solutions to make headway in that market.

In other words: Forced to greatness. I think Apple can do it. Like you, I hope they decide to try.

[cwtnospam]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's a level playing field. There's always been a bias against them in the enterprise, so I think Apple needs to come up with great solutions just to get their foot in the door. That explains why they haven't made much of an effort in that area. They've got other markets to attend to, but I do think Vista is presenting them with an opportunity they shouldn't ignore.