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Old 01-17-2007, 06:55 AM   #1
griffman
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Odd networking issue

I'm having a very strange issue with my iPhoto and iTunes shared libraries, and I'm hoping someone can help...

My home network isn't the most advanced thing in the world, but it does involve a few machines -- Here's what it looks like. As you can see, there is a mix of AirPort, AirPort Express, and Ethernet connectivity.

The FIOS modem is a Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL Router (v4). Directly connected to the FIOS modem are my Brother laser printer, the AirPort Extreme base station, and an uplink connection to the router. The router is actually a switch -- a Netgear GS605 (v3) 4-port gigabit switch. Plugged into the Netgear are my Mac Pro and Dual G5, along with a cable that I sometimes connect to my MacBook Pro.

All machines on the network use static IPs (in the 192.168.1.xxx range), and no machines have firewalls enabled -- the Linksys box is running NAT, and I'm basically using that as the firewall. Both the Linksys and the Base Station are set up to hand out IP addresses for "guest" machines (each is restricted to a different area of the 192.168.1.xxx address space). As noted, though, none of my machines use DHCP addresses.

If the MacBook Pro is connected via Ethernet, everything is good. But when I connect it via AirPort, then the MacBook Pro can't see any shared iTunes or iPhoto libraries -- and the Mac Pro cannot see anything shared from the MacBook Pro. All other aspects of networking, however, work fine (ssh, personal file sharing, etc.).

I'm not even sure where to start looking for a solution on this one, so all help appreciated!

-rob.
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Old 01-17-2007, 08:53 AM   #2
tlarkin
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Perhaps I am missing something here, but the first thing that caught my attention is that you said when you switch to wifi you are no longer part of the network correct? Everything that is wired has a static IP and you have two wifi APs which are dishing out IPs via DHCP? So perhaps when your laptop uses the wireless client is it getting an IP from the base station, and perhaps its a class B IP instead of a class C (ie 10.5.x.x or whatever the default the apple networking hardware is set to). Thus putting your client on a different subnet all together making it not possible to see other machines on the network. This also would explain why ssh works, since it can create a tunnel between any two seperate subnets (i think).

I would recomend turning off the DHCP server on one of your systems, probably the apple hardware, and then point the DNS and Gateway to the IP of the Linksys router, so anything connecting wifi will get a class C IP from the Linksys, which would be a 192.168.x.x IP.

For example, at my home I have a linksys wrt54gl b/g router and all my wired clients are static DHCP and my wifi clients are just straight DHCP.

Of course this is a total shot in the dark since troubleshooting network problems is hard when you can not actually go on location and look at it. Let me know if that was any help at all.

Oh and I forgot to ask one vital question, at one time was this set up working as intended? With both wired and wireless clients? If so, what was the last change you did, if you remember before it stopped working?

Last edited by tlarkin; 01-17-2007 at 08:55 AM. Reason: added question
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:31 AM   #3
griffman
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"Perhaps I am missing something here, but the first thing that caught my attention is that you said when you switch to wifi you are no longer part of the network correct?"

No, my AirPort connection is configured with a static IP as well, also in the 192.168.1.xxx range. None of the machines I own is on DHCP.

As for the last time I know this worked, unfortunately it was a while ago -- before the MacBook Pro entered the house, before I switched to FIOS, and before I added the Netgear switch. So unfortunately, I can't backtrack a step at a time...

BTW, it's my understanding that I have to leave DHCP on in the Base Station in order to get the Express running as an extension to my network. I tried everything I could think of to make it work with a static IP, but to no avail. Finally I read something somewhere that stated DHCP was needed on the master base station.

I disabled DHCP on the Linksys, but that didn't help anything.

-rob
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:34 AM   #4
tlarkin
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Yes, you should only have DHCP running on one of your systems, having multiple DHCP servers can cause issues, espeically if lease times differ...

Well if everything works when the client is wired, and not when its wireless something changes to make it not work. Does your IP change when you go over to wireless? Can you even ping other clients from the command line when you go wireless?
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:44 AM   #5
Craig R. Arko
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It looks like the relevant IP ports are:

Bonjour (UDP port 5353)

iChat Bonjour (TCP port 5298),
iChat (SIP) (UDP port 5060),
iChat (UDP ports 16384 - 16403)

iPhoto (TCP Port 8770)

iTunes (TCP Port 3689)

The Linksys would need to open these to the wireless connection.
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:55 AM   #6
tlarkin
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If everything is on the same network and the same sub net do the ports on the router still need to be opened? I thought that was for access outside the network, hence the NAT function.

Why don't you just try disconnecting all the wifi APs/base stations and then hooking one up and see if that works. Its got to be a setting somewhere.
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:59 AM   #7
Craig R. Arko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlarkin
If everything is on the same network and the same sub net do the ports on the router still need to be opened? I thought that was for access outside the network, hence the NAT function.

Some routers bridge wireless properly, and some don't. Even from the same vendor, depending on the firmware revision it's running. It can be a crapshoot.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:05 AM   #8
tlarkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko
Some routers bridge wireless properly, and some don't. Even from the same vendor, depending on the firmware revision it's running. It can be a crapshoot.

Hmm, ok well I guess I actually knew that and forgot, or maybe I didn't and just thought I did, LOL!. Thanks for the reminder. I only use routers that support DD-WRT firmware now and am used to that.

However, I have set up multiple router networks before, and IME, if something isn't working it is usually a setting like bridging you mentioned or a conflcit in the configuraiton. Both the base station and the Linksys act as DHCP servers by default, and when you say they run static rob, do you mean straight static IPs or are you running what they calling static DHCP? What is the wireless side set to?

If you have a primary, secondary, and teritory router they should all have different IPs, like 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, and 192.168.1.3. Then your clients could have IPs from 192.168.1.100 ~200 or whatever you set it up as. See, AFAIK, the few times I have set up apple networking hardware by default their base stations are set up on a class B network, where as Linksys, and every other consumer product is typically set up as a class C network. What are the IPs of your router, and your apple base stations?
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:05 AM   #9
griffman
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Well, Craig was right, but this really isn't ideal. I tested by port forwarding the iPhoto and iTunes ports in the Linksys' setup screen, and everything worked. This is news to me, as I've never had to use port forwarding for internal network connectivity before.

Edit: Interesting to note that Bonjour works just fine without opening any ports.

However, that means that my 12" PowerBook and Mac mini cannot share, nor can they see shares of, iTunes and iPhoto -- because you can only port forward those ports to one IP address.

Anyone have any ideas on a setup that might get around this limitation? I just want all the machines on the net to be able to see and share iPhoto and iTunes.

Thanks, Craig, for solving at least one issue

-rob.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:11 AM   #10
griffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlarkin
Both the base station and the Linksys act as DHCP servers by default, and when you say they run static rob, do you mean straight static IPs or are you running what they calling static DHCP? What is the wireless side set to?

Both routers are set to hand out different ranges -- the AiPort in the 192.168.1.220 - .249 range, and the Linksys in the 192.168.1.50 - .99 range. The Macs themselves have true static IPs -- hand-typed, with the connection type set to Static IP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlarkin
If you have a primary, secondary, and teritory router they should all have different IPs, like 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, and 192.168.1.3.

The Base Station is 192.168.1.50, the Linksys is 192.168.1.1. The two wireless machines simply connect to the Base Station via the AirPort menu, and then have their router location set as 192.168.1.1.

-rob.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:13 AM   #11
tlarkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffman
...I've never had to use port forwarding for internal network connectivity before.

That is why I am thinking your wireless clients may be on a seperate network. Make sure your base stations is set to disable all network functions like NAT, firewall, DCHP server, and has a different IP than your linksys, ie 192.168.1.2, and that in the settings for the airport its DNS and Gateway servers are set to 192.168.1.1 which is the default IP Linksys routers have.

EDIT - okay read your post, does your Linksys router support static DHCP? that is how I set up mine and it works. I have two routers set up, and one has everything completely disabled and is running just as a wifi and wired repeater basically, and the primary has all the security and static DHCP settings and all the port forwarding.

However, I do not use apple networking hardware that often, only when a client uses it do I ever really touch them. So there could be something I am completely missing here. Anyways, best of luck and you got me curious now, so let us know how it pans out.

For grins start by turning off any and all DHCP server fucntions from the airport and just have the linksys router hand them out, and see if you can turn off NAT on the airport as well.

Last edited by tlarkin; 01-17-2007 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:25 AM   #12
griffman
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Unfortunately, I can't easily disable DHCP on the AirPort Base Station, as it will break the WDS I have setup with the AirPort Express. DHCP on the Linksys is now completely disabled.

I'm thinking the Netgear is somehow mucking things up. Later today, if I have a chance (both kids home today as day care is closed due to snow), I'll pull it from the loop and see if things work when just on the Linksys and AirPort.

-rob.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:46 AM   #13
tlarkin
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You should still be able to turn off DHCP and keep the WDS mode from the wireless bridge. At least you can with other routers. If you bridge your base station to the apple AP over wifi it should technically just act as a repeater, with WDS mode enabled. Of course if this doesn't pan out you could either purchase different equipment, or run a cat5 cable to your AP and turn off the wireless bridge mode.

In your AP just set the DCHP server as the main router and DNS and gateway as the main router and it should work. I have done this before with Linksys and Buffalo routers for clients in the past and it has worked very nicely.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:59 PM   #14
griffman
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For anyone still interested, this problem has now been solved! Ironically, I found the pointer to the answer right here in another thread -- guess I didn't search well enough prior to posting!

The original posting of the solution can be found in this thread on the Apple Discussions board.

Hooray! I'm posting this as a hint next week, just to make it a bit easier to find in the future.

-rob.
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