Where is my airport card? - Page 8

VeryBadApple · 01-08-2007, 02:15 PM

Hi All

Just joined the thread to add my two cents' worth.

I'm on a so-called "Ambient Light Sensor" G5 iMac (the one just prior to the one with the built in iSight camera on the frame). Bought around Oct 05.

Have exactly same problem as many have reported. Issue started coming up on or around the time I ran the Security Upgrade 2006-007.

Machine would lose "sight" of its own _hard wired_ (aka non-removable) Airport Extreme card. (On visual inspection, the card does seem to be "bolted on" to the motherboard with two ["microscopic"] Torx screws, so it may not actually be non-removable as the specs for this model say, but I haven't thougt it wise to mess with that).

Loss of "eye contact" with the card would occur _most definitely_ upon returning the machine from sleep, but also, at times, as I was working happily along. All of a sudden, an unusual number of websites would refuse to be found. I'd look up and the dreaded EMPTY Airport triangle would be gracing my menubar.

Nothing I tried would seem to bring it back, so I reached for what seemed like the obvious solution: endure a general re-start.

Then I'd _really_ hit a wall: the even more dreaded Kernel Panic.

A couple of - hoepefully - helpful hints/comments:

1.- There is a thread on the Apple Forums proper that refers to this problem:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....689282#3689282

On that thread, a post by Fumiaki Kawashima includes a sub-link
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....60015&tstart=0

where he states the following:

"There is a problem on async program in the computer and the connecting network node with Mach port (=socket)-- not synchronized by a common timing signal. An exception problem also occurs on the core/L2 cache and bus Fault Isolation Register (FIR) on the CPU.

More importantly, you will please see CVE-2006-6292 (under review) :

http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cve...=CVE-2006-6292

The Apple should be working with it."

I'm providing the above for the benefit of the nerdishly-inclined among us :-), who may be able to understand all that techietalk about timing signals and the like.

2- For ALL OTHERS, who would like to take their chances on a "handmade" solution _that will NOT allow you to use the AirPort card, but WILL, most likely, allow you to use every other function of your machine, including access to the net via hardwired Ethernet_ , do the following:

A) start up in Safe Mode (holding down the _Shift_ key at least until machine shows grey screen with the little clock-like icon spinning)

B) Once machine starts up and you log in, Double click your Hard Drive icon (usually named Macintosh HD, or something of that sort) and open System/Library/Extensions

C) Look for, and remove, the file named AppleAirport2.kext. Move it someplace else, and remember where you stored it so you can put it back in place if/when our beloved Cupertino buddies decide to / manage to provide a solution.

D) Close all windows, and select "Shut Down". (Confirm when asked, Windoze style, Did you actually tell me just now to shut down, or did I dream it up?). WinDummied Mac finally shuts down.

E) After, say, 30 seconds, Push the Start Up button as you normally would.

My experience with this homemade solution was as follows:

The first startup resulted in what seemed like a very long time (several minutes) worth of a blank light blue screen, supplemented after a while by an unusually loud/very active fan noise. (I later surmised the machine was probably doing a self-check of the hard drive, which - being 160 Gig - takes a fair amount of time. Of course the 21st Century Apple software, having evolved "way past" Apple's own "Human Interface Guidelines" won't bother to tell you what in the world is happening).

Tired of waiting and wondering, I did a forced re-start (hold down start up button for as long as it takes for machine to turn itself off, wait a few seconds as above, then activate the button again).

Second time around I got my usual login screen fairly promptly, and was able to go to work as usual, MINUS the wireless access.

Have since run the Sec Update 2006-08, and machine continues to work fine via wired Ethernet.

I have resisted the "temptation" to slip the file back in the Extensions folder after the update, to see if things had magically gone back to normal.

Like some others on this thread have pointed out, I spent money on this gadget because I actually need it to do work with, rather than lock myself out of it, and spend countless unpaid hours troubleshooting it.

Hope this helps.
Bye now.

markus_k · 01-09-2007, 02:55 PM

Once again:
I experienced exactly the same problems (see my previous posts) as described in this forum, but never installed one of these security updates. I think you run riot in blaming the security updates for the air port problems.

beerfueled · 01-09-2007, 03:35 PM

I thought it was time to post my panic.log too, so here it is:

Fri Jan 5 10:17:50 2007
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8B80): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 000000001CEBBFDC, msr = 0000000000149030, dsisr = 42000000, dar = 000000000182D000
AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000
L2FIR = 0000000000000000, BusFir = 0000000000000000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x00026838 0x000A8B80 0x000A7E10 0x000AB880
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2E94C780)
PC=0x1CEBBFDC; MSR=0x00149030; DAR=0x0182D000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x1CECFB94; R1=0x0CC3BD30; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)
Backtrace:
0x0027934C 0x1CECFB94 0x002CDC8C 0x002CCB54 0x000A9654
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.iokit.AppleAirPort3(360.4)@0x1ce92000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONetworkingFamily(1.5.0)@0x1cdb9000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x1ce05000
Exception state (sv=0x1CE3D000)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.0.0: Sat Mar 26 14:15:22 PST 2005; root:xnu-792.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

I actually didn't look in it until today, I only saw the panics in single user mode. There's something strange about this. In single user mode, the panic was always traced back to AppleAirPort2(abc.d), where i think abc.d=405.1 or possibly 401.2, like in the other examples seen in this thread.

Initially I had three modules that I renamed to stop the kernel panics, namely AppleAirPort, AppleAirPort2 and AppleAirPort3. I did this on a new installation. Then I got the security updates through software update, and the airport update must have been among them, since the next boot resulted in a new kernel panic. This was the last one i got, and should accordingly be the one reflected in the panic message above, since it's the last one in panic.log. After that kernel panic i again booted into single user mode to rename the newly installed module, which was named AppleAirPort2. Strange that panic.log says AppleAirport3...

Are the numbers the firmware version? In that case, why does it seem to differ depending on the module loaded?

Skinkie · 01-09-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerfueled


	Are the numbers the firmware version? In that case, why does it seem to differ depending on the module loaded?

The firmware is dynamically uploaded to the card... each time the module initializes.

lebada · 01-09-2007, 11:01 PM

Hi I am not sure that the firmware is dynamically loaded because in this case an fresh install to os 10.2 should make the airport work, but I have tried this and it does not work. So some info must reside on the card after the firmware update. The only thing we can hope is to get an fix with the next apple update. I am not sure if apple is aware of this problem. I have opened a ticket on the developer site, on their bug tracking system. The problem is that I have a free developer account and I don't think that they have high priority on those tickets.

hayne · 01-09-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lebada


	I have opened a ticket on the developer site, on their bug tracking system. The problem is that I have a free developer account and I don't think that they have high priority on those tickets.

I don't think Apple gives higher priority to bugs reported by developers who have paid for their subscription. But they certainly give a higher priority to bugs that can be easily reproduced. If you submit a bug that the investigating engineer cannot reproduce, it will get a very low priority.

beerfueled · 01-10-2007, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lebada


	Hi I am not sure that the firmware is dynamically loaded because in this case an fresh install to os 10.2 should make the airport work, but I have tried this and it does not work.

Same here. Formated and re-installed 10.4.2 without success. I even had problems finishing the installation since it repeatedly crashed after the installation reboots the computer in the later part of the installation.

haiki · 01-10-2007, 04:06 AM

I've written before how I keep airport turned off to avoid the kernel panics, and the iBook turned on because of the start-up problems. Today I turned my iBook off buy a mistake, and tried to start it 5-6 times without success, either ending up with a black screen, or in open firmware. Then I remembered that someone had suggested squeezing the left hand side, I tried that during start-up, and it worked! So.. is it a hardware problem after all?

Killergull · 01-10-2007, 06:18 AM

Hmm..it's seems to be almost the same symptoms as the older iBook users with loose airport cards had.
http://web.mac.com/altero/iWeb/alter...0738B136C.html

It would be interesting to compare the error logs (airportpanic) between our iBook G4 model and the one with installable/loose airport card.

VeryBadApple · 01-10-2007, 08:23 AM

Hi, all

I agree with lebada and beerfueled. I also went through a re-install of Tiger from the original CD. I did it from scratch on a _separate hard drive_, which I previously re-formatted _with the zeroing option on, for good measure. The machine still KP'd right away.

More importantly, for all those well intentioned folks like markus_k who periodically remind the forum of their excellent experience _replacing whole chunks of hardware_, or _pressing here or there_: my machine _isn't even an iBook_. It's a sturdy desktop model, with a thick-as-a-brick acrylic frame, which doesn't twitch or bend. It _still_ has the problem. Moreover: it didn't have _any problem whatsoever_ for just over a year, in constant use.

This is a relatively recent issue, it most probably is related to the AirPort card's firmware, and it is at least _plausible_ that one or more of the Security Updates changed that firmware in some way.

The Vulnerability report cited in my post above mentions the Firmware version, and indicates the way in which it would make the card vulnerable to attack:

"Apple Airport Extreme firmware 0.1.27 in Mac OS X 10.4.8 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (out-of-bounds memory access and kernel panic) and have possibly other security-related impact via certain beacon frames."

I somehow doubt that the vulnerability they mention would be applicable to cards, which, in principle, only work to link themselves to an access point (never as a repeater, which "listens" for calls being made to it, other than by the access point they are linked up with). In my case, the acces point (a D-Link) is set to block out all MAC addresses except those explicitly entered into its filter table by the admin, which - again - would supposedly protect against any unwanted intrusion.

But, to recap: the most intractable problem we're dealing with is most likely a software-firmware issue.

It affects machines _other than_ iBooks (as well as iBooks).

It appears to affect mostly machines of a particular "vintage": the ones that came equipped with the "non-removable" AirPort card. This is an important distinction to make. People with removable cards would most probably be able to fix the problem by replacing the card, but that's not a possibility for those of us with a "non-removable" card. _Except_, OF COURSE, (as in the case of markus_k) if you get your entire motherboard replaced, in which case _the card on it may be different_ from the ones originally installed on the machines, which now seem to be developing problems on a lot of folks' machines.

ben.young · 01-10-2007, 11:33 AM

Hi all. Been following this thread for the last two weeks - whilst trying anything concievable to get my iBook back up and running.

Expreiencing very similar to may others on this thread:

- Initial failing to start followoed by constant KPs on startup.

- Each KP referenced the airport card or AppleAirPort2.kext extension.

- Successfully booted to CD and re-installed after an "all zeros" format.

- Booted to safemode and runs all day

- Boots to normal OSX UNTIL you access network prefs and apply (States its found new protocols). Once applied, KPs

- Re-Installed OS back to factory and manually downloaded 10.4.7 update and ran in standalone - No Joy

- Just trying to install OSX Server 10.4 but don't hold out much hope

Does anyone know how to install extensions from other macs? Again, another stab in the dark - but getting pretty desperate - tried copying AppleAirPort2.kext from an iMac G5. On startup it spits it out saying the extension wasn't installed properly and to contact vendor - No warranty on my book so not much chance of that occouring.

Is it possible to capture the PROM settings from a non infected ibook in any way? Then transfer them to my sick one?

Specs of sick ibook are: 1.42ghz G4, 1024Mb RAM, Combo, September 2005 model.

Thanks.

beerfueled · 01-11-2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryBadApple


	The Vulnerability report cited in my post above mentions the Firmware version, and indicates the way in which it would make the card vulnerable to attack: "Apple Airport Extreme firmware 0.1.27 in Mac OS X 10.4.8 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (out-of-bounds memory access and kernel panic) and have possibly other security-related impact via certain beacon frames." I somehow doubt that the vulnerability they mention would be applicable to cards, which, in principle, only work to link themselves to an access point (never as a repeater, which "listens" for calls being made to it, other than by the access point they are linked up with). In my case, the acces point (a D-Link) is set to block out all MAC addresses except those explicitly entered into its filter table by the admin, which - again - would supposedly protect against any unwanted intrusion.

I have also thought about this, could it acutally be the malformated beacon frame that causes the KP:s? I find that hard to beleive, since my iBook often crashes already at the grey spinning circle screen, or at the "Mac OS is starting" screen. Even if the network is initialized there already, it's not associated with any AP:s and hence can not (?) receive beacons? Also, my network (and most other networks in range) are encrypted, so my station can by no means associate with them when no access settings are set. In my case I did a full re-format, which means the computer can not "remember" any passwords to any networks and therefore not associate with them.

Besides, why would access points suddenly start to emit this kind of malformated frame? Or what are the odds that this is constantly done by someone with malicious intent within range of my appartment?

Though, since I'm not clear on the whole beacon concept, one thing caught my eye. I too have a d-link access point. I think I have read it somewhere else too. Is it possible that this has a link to (certain) d-link products? Are other people in the forum also using d-link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryBadApple


	It appears to affect mostly machines of a particular "vintage": the ones that came equipped with the "non-removable" AirPort card. This is an important distinction to make. People with removable cards would most probably be able to fix the problem by replacing the card, but that's not a possibility for those of us with a "non-removable" card. _Except_, OF COURSE, (as in the case of markus_k) if you get your entire motherboard replaced, in which case _the card on it may be different_ from the ones originally installed on the machines, which now seem to be developing problems on a lot of folks' machines.

One interesting point: My iBook's screen stopped working some time in april. After spending (horribly long!) weeks and weeks at the shop (while still in warranty) it came back after having both it's screen, and as far as i could understand, it's logic board replaced. So chances are my logic board actually isn't a 2005, but a later version, and I still have the problems!

skip0pot2mus · 01-11-2007, 12:32 PM

How many people on that list then..Im running out of warranty time

Hairnester · 01-13-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lebada


	We need more PR in order to get an reaction from apple. We should open a petition at www.petitiononline.com and send it to the specific mac sites in order to have a little media buzz about the problem. There is an email address from Apple where we are for sure going to get an response from a PR person: steve@apple.com The mail is not going to be answered by Steve but by a staff member.

There's already a petition on petitiononline for the iBook logic board failure as linked in my siggy and here.There are currently 4348 signatures.

As for the KisMac solution, it won't work. Shortly after I started having issues with my Airport I installed KisMac and if anything I only got more KPs. I've called Apple and they're still denying there's a widespread problem.

Uh, oh! I kinda did a CSS of the form in my spare time (I'm really REALLY bored out here) if anyone wishes to see....It's a little neater and easier to use. Just a suggestion.

hayne · 01-13-2007, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0pot2mus


	Im running out of warranty time

If you have a problem with your Mac and it is still under warranty, then why aren't you phoning Apple?

skip0pot2mus · 01-13-2007, 09:06 AM

I've searched their web site for a local repair centre or number, but I've had no luck, am I to ring apple direct or something? I've no idea, sorry]

Cheers

hayne · 01-13-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip0pot2mus


	I've searched their web site for a local repair centre or number, but I've had no luck, am I to ring apple direct or something? I've no idea, sorry]

http://www.apple.com/support/contact/

Usually you take the machine in to a local Apple dealer.

Skinkie · 01-13-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hairnester


	Uh, oh! I kinda did a CSS of the form in my spare time (I'm really REALLY bored out here) if anyone wishes to see....It's a little neater and easier to use. Just a suggestion.

mail me

mynickname at xs4all dot nl

skip0pot2mus · 01-16-2007, 02:05 PM

Hmm

Cos of the problem of having bought it through ebay, and having a dispute over it, paypal told me not to have it repaired yet....wtf?! Sending it anyway.

Hairnester · 01-16-2007, 02:26 PM

So, I just called Apple out of curiosity after reading about the lawsuit again to see if they were acknowledging the problem and were gonna fix it. Naturally, I got the runaround. They asked me if EVERYTHING ELSE was wrong but the issue. I have part of it recorded, but some of it didn't come out too clearly (speakerphone to voice recorder. Ick.) It seems like every time he tried to give me a solution and I've already tried it/know about it and it didn't look good for him, he'd change the subject. I know for a fact he was following a script because anytime I asked if Apple was acknowledging the fact that there 's a problem he always returned with the same canned sounding line of "There are no known widespread issues with the iBook G4 logic board."

Basically what I gathered from the convo is that there is an issue, they "know" about it but they're choosing to not acknowledge it. They asked me a lot of system questions that really have nothing to do with the logic board, so they're gathering info. And they also asked when I bought it and where, so they're recording that. After describing problems that other users have had (after he asked) he was quiet for a while, typing it all up, so I encourage all to call in.

So, what it boils down to is: if it's "unknown" that there is a widespread issue, we've gotta work harder for it to be known. I say we go to the streets, get people calling in and reporting their iBooks as well as signing the list. I say we go forum to forum linking to it so we get more visibility. We've got to get more people in on this cause Apple's obviously not trying to help us.

01-08-2007, 02:15 PM	#141
VeryBadApple Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 10	TechieTalk of Timing Signals, and a Home-Made Workaround Hi All Just joined the thread to add my two cents' worth. I'm on a so-called "Ambient Light Sensor" G5 iMac (the one just prior to the one with the built in iSight camera on the frame). Bought around Oct 05. Have exactly same problem as many have reported. Issue started coming up on or around the time I ran the Security Upgrade 2006-007. Machine would lose "sight" of its own _hard wired_ (aka non-removable) Airport Extreme card. (On visual inspection, the card does seem to be "bolted on" to the motherboard with two ["microscopic"] Torx screws, so it may not actually be non-removable as the specs for this model say, but I haven't thougt it wise to mess with that). Loss of "eye contact" with the card would occur _most definitely_ upon returning the machine from sleep, but also, at times, as I was working happily along. All of a sudden, an unusual number of websites would refuse to be found. I'd look up and the dreaded EMPTY Airport triangle would be gracing my menubar. Nothing I tried would seem to bring it back, so I reached for what seemed like the obvious solution: endure a general re-start. Then I'd _really_ hit a wall: the even more dreaded Kernel Panic. A couple of - hoepefully - helpful hints/comments: 1.- There is a thread on the Apple Forums proper that refers to this problem: http://discussions.apple.com/thread....689282#3689282 On that thread, a post by Fumiaki Kawashima includes a sub-link http://discussions.apple.com/thread....60015&tstart=0 where he states the following: "There is a problem on async program in the computer and the connecting network node with Mach port (=socket)-- not synchronized by a common timing signal. An exception problem also occurs on the core/L2 cache and bus Fault Isolation Register (FIR) on the CPU. More importantly, you will please see CVE-2006-6292 (under review) : http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cve...=CVE-2006-6292 The Apple should be working with it." I'm providing the above for the benefit of the nerdishly-inclined among us :-), who may be able to understand all that techietalk about timing signals and the like. 2- For ALL OTHERS, who would like to take their chances on a "handmade" solution _that will NOT allow you to use the AirPort card, but WILL, most likely, allow you to use every other function of your machine, including access to the net via hardwired Ethernet_ , do the following: A) start up in Safe Mode (holding down the _Shift_ key at least until machine shows grey screen with the little clock-like icon spinning) B) Once machine starts up and you log in, Double click your Hard Drive icon (usually named Macintosh HD, or something of that sort) and open System/Library/Extensions C) Look for, and remove, the file named AppleAirport2.kext. Move it someplace else, and remember where you stored it so you can put it back in place if/when our beloved Cupertino buddies decide to / manage to provide a solution. D) Close all windows, and select "Shut Down". (Confirm when asked, Windoze style, Did you actually tell me just now to shut down, or did I dream it up?). WinDummied Mac finally shuts down. E) After, say, 30 seconds, Push the Start Up button as you normally would. My experience with this homemade solution was as follows: The first startup resulted in what seemed like a very long time (several minutes) worth of a blank light blue screen, supplemented after a while by an unusually loud/very active fan noise. (I later surmised the machine was probably doing a self-check of the hard drive, which - being 160 Gig - takes a fair amount of time. Of course the 21st Century Apple software, having evolved "way past" Apple's own "Human Interface Guidelines" won't bother to tell you what in the world is happening). Tired of waiting and wondering, I did a forced re-start (hold down start up button for as long as it takes for machine to turn itself off, wait a few seconds as above, then activate the button again). Second time around I got my usual login screen fairly promptly, and was able to go to work as usual, MINUS the wireless access. Have since run the Sec Update 2006-08, and machine continues to work fine via wired Ethernet. I have resisted the "temptation" to slip the file back in the Extensions folder after the update, to see if things had magically gone back to normal. Like some others on this thread have pointed out, I spent money on this gadget because I actually need it to do work with, rather than lock myself out of it, and spend countless unpaid hours troubleshooting it. Hope this helps. Bye now. Last edited by VeryBadApple; 01-08-2007 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Under A) I had mistakenly written S key where it should have been _Shift_ key

01-09-2007, 03:35 PM	#143
beerfueled Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12	I thought it was time to post my panic.log too, so here it is: Fri Jan 5 10:17:50 2007 panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8B80): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 000000001CEBBFDC, msr = 0000000000149030, dsisr = 42000000, dar = 000000000182D000 AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000 L2FIR = 0000000000000000, BusFir = 0000000000000000 Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0: Backtrace: 0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x00026838 0x000A8B80 0x000A7E10 0x000AB880 Proceeding back via exception chain: Exception state (sv=0x2E94C780) PC=0x1CEBBFDC; MSR=0x00149030; DAR=0x0182D000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x1CECFB94; R1=0x0CC3BD30; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check) Backtrace: 0x0027934C 0x1CECFB94 0x002CDC8C 0x002CCB54 0x000A9654 Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies): com.apple.iokit.AppleAirPort3(360.4)@0x1ce92000 dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONetworkingFamily(1.5.0)@0x1cdb9000 dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x1ce05000 Exception state (sv=0x1CE3D000) PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown) Kernel version: Darwin Kernel Version 8.0.0: Sat Mar 26 14:15:22 PST 2005; root:xnu-792.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC ********* I actually didn't look in it until today, I only saw the panics in single user mode. There's something strange about this. In single user mode, the panic was always traced back to AppleAirPort2(abc.d), where i think abc.d=405.1 or possibly 401.2, like in the other examples seen in this thread. Initially I had three modules that I renamed to stop the kernel panics, namely AppleAirPort, AppleAirPort2 and AppleAirPort3. I did this on a new installation. Then I got the security updates through software update, and the airport update must have been among them, since the next boot resulted in a new kernel panic. This was the last one i got, and should accordingly be the one reflected in the panic message above, since it's the last one in panic.log. After that kernel panic i again booted into single user mode to rename the newly installed module, which was named AppleAirPort2. Strange that panic.log says AppleAirport3... Are the numbers the firmware version? In that case, why does it seem to differ depending on the module loaded?

01-16-2007, 02:26 PM	#160
Hairnester Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 28	So, I just called Apple out of curiosity after reading about the lawsuit again to see if they were acknowledging the problem and were gonna fix it. Naturally, I got the runaround. They asked me if EVERYTHING ELSE was wrong but the issue. I have part of it recorded, but some of it didn't come out too clearly (speakerphone to voice recorder. Ick.) It seems like every time he tried to give me a solution and I've already tried it/know about it and it didn't look good for him, he'd change the subject. I know for a fact he was following a script because anytime I asked if Apple was acknowledging the fact that there 's a problem he always returned with the same canned sounding line of "There are no known widespread issues with the iBook G4 logic board." Basically what I gathered from the convo is that there is an issue, they "know" about it but they're choosing to not acknowledge it. They asked me a lot of system questions that really have nothing to do with the logic board, so they're gathering info. And they also asked when I bought it and where, so they're recording that. After describing problems that other users have had (after he asked) he was quiet for a while, typing it all up, so I encourage all to call in. So, what it boils down to is: if it's "unknown" that there is a widespread issue, we've gotta work harder for it to be known. I say we go to the streets, get people calling in and reporting their iBooks as well as signing the list. I say we go forum to forum linking to it so we get more visibility. We've got to get more people in on this cause Apple's obviously not trying to help us. __________________ Fix my logic board! 12" iBook G4 40GB HD(Expanded w/ 250GB external HD) 1.5 Mhz RAM

01-09-2007, 02:55 PM	#142
markus_k Prospect Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	Once again: I experienced exactly the same problems (see my previous posts) as described in this forum, but never installed one of these security updates. I think you run riot in blaming the security updates for the air port problems.

01-09-2007, 11:01 PM	#145
lebada Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4	Hi I am not sure that the firmware is dynamically loaded because in this case an fresh install to os 10.2 should make the airport work, but I have tried this and it does not work. So some info must reside on the card after the firmware update. The only thing we can hope is to get an fix with the next apple update. I am not sure if apple is aware of this problem. I have opened a ticket on the developer site, on their bug tracking system. The problem is that I have a free developer account and I don't think that they have high priority on those tickets.

01-10-2007, 04:06 AM	#148
haiki Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	I've written before how I keep airport turned off to avoid the kernel panics, and the iBook turned on because of the start-up problems. Today I turned my iBook off buy a mistake, and tried to start it 5-6 times without success, either ending up with a black screen, or in open firmware. Then I remembered that someone had suggested squeezing the left hand side, I tried that during start-up, and it worked! So.. is it a hardware problem after all?

01-10-2007, 06:18 AM	#149
Killergull Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 35	Hmm..it's seems to be almost the same symptoms as the older iBook users with loose airport cards had. http://web.mac.com/altero/iWeb/alter...0738B136C.html It would be interesting to compare the error logs (airportpanic) between our iBook G4 model and the one with installable/loose airport card.

01-10-2007, 08:23 AM	#150
VeryBadApple Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 10	Hi, all I agree with lebada and beerfueled. I also went through a re-install of Tiger from the original CD. I did it from scratch on a _separate hard drive_, which I previously re-formatted _with the zeroing option on, for good measure. The machine still KP'd right away. More importantly, for all those well intentioned folks like markus_k who periodically remind the forum of their excellent experience _replacing whole chunks of hardware_, or _pressing here or there_: my machine _isn't even an iBook_. It's a sturdy desktop model, with a thick-as-a-brick acrylic frame, which doesn't twitch or bend. It _still_ has the problem. Moreover: it didn't have _any problem whatsoever_ for just over a year, in constant use. This is a relatively recent issue, it most probably is related to the AirPort card's firmware, and it is at least _plausible_ that one or more of the Security Updates changed that firmware in some way. The Vulnerability report cited in my post above mentions the Firmware version, and indicates the way in which it would make the card vulnerable to attack: "Apple Airport Extreme firmware 0.1.27 in Mac OS X 10.4.8 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (out-of-bounds memory access and kernel panic) and have possibly other security-related impact via certain beacon frames." I somehow doubt that the vulnerability they mention would be applicable to cards, which, in principle, only work to link themselves to an access point (never as a repeater, which "listens" for calls being made to it, other than by the access point they are linked up with). In my case, the acces point (a D-Link) is set to block out all MAC addresses except those explicitly entered into its filter table by the admin, which - again - would supposedly protect against any unwanted intrusion. But, to recap: the most intractable problem we're dealing with is most likely a software-firmware issue. It affects machines _other than_ iBooks (as well as iBooks). It appears to affect mostly machines of a particular "vintage": the ones that came equipped with the "non-removable" AirPort card. This is an important distinction to make. People with removable cards would most probably be able to fix the problem by replacing the card, but that's not a possibility for those of us with a "non-removable" card. _Except_, OF COURSE, (as in the case of markus_k) if you get your entire motherboard replaced, in which case _the card on it may be different_ from the ones originally installed on the machines, which now seem to be developing problems on a lot of folks' machines.

01-10-2007, 11:33 AM	#151
ben.young Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2	Hi all. Been following this thread for the last two weeks - whilst trying anything concievable to get my iBook back up and running. Expreiencing very similar to may others on this thread: - Initial failing to start followoed by constant KPs on startup. - Each KP referenced the airport card or AppleAirPort2.kext extension. - Successfully booted to CD and re-installed after an "all zeros" format. - Booted to safemode and runs all day - Boots to normal OSX UNTIL you access network prefs and apply (States its found new protocols). Once applied, KPs - Re-Installed OS back to factory and manually downloaded 10.4.7 update and ran in standalone - No Joy - Just trying to install OSX Server 10.4 but don't hold out much hope Does anyone know how to install extensions from other macs? Again, another stab in the dark - but getting pretty desperate - tried copying AppleAirPort2.kext from an iMac G5. On startup it spits it out saying the extension wasn't installed properly and to contact vendor - No warranty on my book so not much chance of that occouring. Is it possible to capture the PROM settings from a non infected ibook in any way? Then transfer them to my sick one? Specs of sick ibook are: 1.42ghz G4, 1024Mb RAM, Combo, September 2005 model. Thanks.

01-11-2007, 12:32 PM	#153
skip0pot2mus Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	How many people on that list then..Im running out of warranty time

01-13-2007, 09:06 AM	#156
skip0pot2mus Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	I've searched their web site for a local repair centre or number, but I've had no luck, am I to ring apple direct or something? I've no idea, sorry] Cheers

01-16-2007, 02:05 PM	#159
skip0pot2mus Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Hmm Cos of the problem of having bought it through ebay, and having a dispute over it, paypal told me not to have it repaired yet....wtf?! Sending it anyway.