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Old 05-22-2006, 09:21 AM   #1
kovalik
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Unhappy Bad Crash, need help with terminal

Hi,

My iMac G5 went grey and gave me the message "You need to restart your Computer". Same message when trying to reboot. Tried booting from Install CD and an eMac with FireWire target disk mode. It tries to boot but then I get a black box in the middle of the screen and it hangs up. I suspected a huge video file, so I wanted to remove the file.

So, went into terminal.

Did: /sbin/fsck -fy
Got: The volume MacintoshHD appears to be OK. (good!)
Then: /sbin/mount - uw /
Got: panic(cpu 0 caller 0x00102854): jnl: transaction too big (8385024 >= 8388096 bytes, bufsize 4096, tr 0x2ff8fb0 bp 0x3d09ec20)

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
(lots of numbers here)
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x00D67780)
(more numbers) (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.6.0: Tue Mar 16:58:48 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.6.70.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC
panic: We are hanging here...

I am a real UNIX newbie. I need all the help I can get and it would be GREATLY appreciated
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:48 AM   #2
acme.mail.order
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If you are a Unix newbie, then single-user mode on a wonky filesystem is NOT the place to start

Your suspicion of a overly-large file looks reasonable - that looks like a journal error.

Try this:

Boot the bad machine in firewire mode, connect it to anything else convenient AFTER you launch Disk Utility on the good machine. In Disk Utility, select the volume and disable journaling. FInd and delete the video file in the usual manner then run repair again.

If it reboots after all that you can re-enable journaling whenever it's convenient.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:52 AM   #3
kovalik
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I tried that

Hi, Thanks for taking the time to answer my plea.

I tried booting from Install CD and an eMac in FireWire target disk mode. It tries to boot but then I get a black box in the middle of the screen and it hangs up.

So I figured terminal is the only way to go.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:57 AM   #4
hayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalik
Tried booting from Install CD and an eMac with FireWire target disk mode. It tries to boot but then I get a black box in the middle of the screen and it hangs up.

Please supply (much) more detail about exactly what you did when trying to boot from the Install CD.
See this Apple doc:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106214


Quote:
Did: /sbin/fsck -fy
Got: The volume MacintoshHD appears to be OK. (good!)
Then: /sbin/mount - uw /

Can we assume that the extra space in the above 'mount' command is just a typo - that you actually executed '/sbin/mount -uw /' ?

Quote:
Got: panic(cpu 0 caller 0x00102854): jnl: transaction too big (8385024 >= 8388096 bytes, bufsize 4096, tr 0x2ff8fb0 bp 0x3d09ec20)

That message is referring to a problem with the HFS+ journalling facility. In the 10.4.5 Darwin source code (probably the same in 10.4.6), it comes from the function 'journal_modify_block_start' in the file "xnu-792.6.61/bsd/vfs/vfs_journal.c"
[edit] Here's the section of code that is producing that error:
Code:
    // make sure that this transaction isn't bigger than the whole journal
    if (tr->total_bytes+buf_size(bp) >= (jnl->jhdr->size - jnl->jhdr->jhdr_size)) {
		panic("jnl: transaction too big (%d >= %lld bytes, bufsize %d, tr 0x%x bp 0x%x)\n",
			  tr->total_bytes, (tr->jnl->jhdr->size - jnl->jhdr->jhdr_size), buf_size(bp), tr, bp);
		return -1;
    }
[/edit]

So maybe if you booted without journalling, that might work.
I'm not sure at the moment how to do that. Maybe someone else knows.
I'll see if I can find out and tell you later.
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Last edited by hayne; 05-22-2006 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:00 AM   #5
voldenuit
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Unless something is very wrong with my limited mathematic skills, I'm inclined to believe that there might be more than one bug:

8385024 >= 8388096

As this is the PPC kernel, which luckily Apple publishes, you could look up in the source what's going wrong there...
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalik
I tried booting from Install CD and an eMac in FireWire target disk mode. It tries to boot but then I get a black box in the middle of the screen and it hangs up.

acme suggested to
Quote:
Boot the bad machine in firewire mode

that would be the iMac in your case. Try to follow his instructions step by step, chances are it'll work.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:22 AM   #7
kovalik
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Hi Again

To answer the questions from Hayne:

Quote:

Can we assume that the extra space in the above 'mount' command is just a typo - that you actually executed '/sbin/mount -uw /' ?

Yes, I executed '/sbin/mount -uw /, sorry for the typo

Quote:

Please supply (much) more detail about exactly what you did when trying to boot from the Install CD.

OK, to make a long story.. long

I put in the Install CD, powered up. I got the choice of my drive or the Install CD or the Apple Hardware check. Ran the Hardware check, everything passed. Tried to boot from the Install CD, it tried and then I got a black box in the middle of the screen and it hung up.

Tried to boot using an eMac, with disc utility open, with my computer (a G5) in FireWire target disk mode. It caused the eMac to crash with the same "You need to restart your computer message".

Tried to boot my G5 with the eMac in FireWire target disk mode, my computer saw it as a possible boot drive, but when I tried it, I got the black box in the middle of the screen and the crash again.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:35 AM   #8
hayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voldenuit
Unless something is very wrong with my limited mathematic skills, I'm inclined to believe that there might be more than one bug:

8385024 >= 8388096

I edited my above post to show the relevant section of code. As you can see there, the error message is merely slightly misleading.
The true inequality is
8385024 + 4096 > 8388096
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:35 AM   #9
kovalik
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Thanks for answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by voldenuit
acme suggested to that would be the iMac in your case. Try to follow his instructions step by step, chances are it'll work.

I also tried to boot the bad machine in Firewire mode and it crashed the good machine.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:40 AM   #10
hayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalik
I also tried to boot the bad machine in Firewire mode and it crashed the good machine.

I would have thought that could only happen if there were something wrong with the "good machine" or if there were a hardware problem with the firewire hardware (on either machine or the cable).
Have you tried with a different firewire cable? Does this cable work with other firewire drives?
Do you have any reason to suspect the firewire hardware (port etc) on your G5?
What is the history of this G5? Did it have any problems before this?
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:45 AM   #11
kovalik
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My G5

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayne
I would have thought that could only happen if there were something wrong with the "good machine" or if there were a hardware problem with the firewire hardware (on either machine or the cable).
Have you tried with a different firewire cable? Does this cable work with other firewire drives?
Do you have any reason to suspect the firewire hardware (port etc) on your G5?
What is the history of this G5? Did it have any problems before this?

My machine is less than a year old. It has been great, no problems even remotely like this.

I have an external firewire drive which I sometimes use to back up, and have had no problems with it. The cable is good.

When I booted with the good eMac as the slave, my bad G5 saw it as a possible boot drive, but then crashed when I tried to start from it. So I think the connection is OK
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:45 AM   #12
voldenuit
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You need to figure out a way the corrupt journal does not cause problems, so stop trying to mount it, let alone boot from it.

Either using command line tools to convert the journaled partition to one that no longer is or using a system old enough (System 9) not to understand journaling, but able to mount and fix HFS+ are two ideas that come to mind.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:02 AM   #13
hayne
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Before we go too much further, are you sure that you used the "-f" option when you did the 'fsck'?
I recall reading that 'fsck -fy' would result in the journal files being ignored when the disk was next mounted.
Perhaps you merely need to 'reboot' after doing the 'fsck -fy'
(instead of trying to mount the disk read-write)
So try it again:
Boot into single-user mode, run 'fsck -fy', and then 'reboot'.
Hold down Command + V after you hear the chime (in order to get "vernose mode" so you can see the messages).
What happens?
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:28 AM   #14
kovalik
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Red face Hi Again

What I get is the panic(cpu 0 caller...
message that I listed earlier, ending with:

panic: We are hanging here...
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:40 PM   #15
kovalik
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Lightbulb Still looking for the key

Hi,

I found this on at apple:

Disabling journaling via diskutil

You can disable journaling from the Terminal application by using diskutil. Follow these steps:
1. Log in as an Admin user to the server whose disk you want to set up for journaling.
2. Make sure that no one is using the server.
3. Open Terminal (/Applications/Utilities/).
4. Execute the diskutil command, using the disableJournal option and identifying the volume for which you want journaling disabled. To disable journaling for the root volume, for example, you would execute:

sudo /usr/sbin/diskutil disableJournal /

To disable journaling for a volume called MyDisk, you would execute:

sudo /usr/sbin/diskutil disableJournal /Volumes/MyDisk

This seems to be the command to disable the Journal. Would this effect my disc other than disabling the journaling?
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Old 05-22-2006, 02:05 PM   #16
voldenuit
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Looks like you're on the right track.

Try to mount the corrupt partition without any checking or journal-replay.

If that doesn't work look if there is a syntax to do the same thing to unmounted partitions, something like /dev/disk1s10 instead of /mountpoint .
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Old 05-22-2006, 03:44 PM   #17
hayne
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Can I assume that the reason you are willing to spend so much effort on this is that there are files on the disk that you don't have a backup of?
Note that if those files are sufficiently valuable to you, you might be better using a professional data recovery service. But that would cost many hundreds of dollars, so the files have to be valuable enough.

Otherwise we could work on trying to erase the disk so you could start fresh.
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Old 05-22-2006, 06:16 PM   #18
kovalik
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Thumbs up Thanks for all your help

Thank you for taking the time to help me out so generously. I do have back ups of my files, I just hate to have to put everything back onto an erased drive when I know that the drive is OK now. I have had macs since the late 80's and I've never had a problem I couldn't fix, but since my system is less than a year old and I bought Apple Care, I'm going to take it in for servicing.

I really appreciate everyone's time.

Regards

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Old 05-22-2006, 06:58 PM   #19
hayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalik
but since my system is less than a year old and I bought Apple Care, I'm going to take it in for servicing.

Note that (as far as I have heard), Apple Care does not support data retrieval. In general if you take your Mac in for service, you should expect that the drive will be erased. They will get you to sign a form that says that you agree to this.
If you want them to try to keep the data on that drive, you will need to specify that - and perhaps pay an extra fee for this.
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Old 05-22-2006, 07:04 PM   #20
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Thanks!

I'll watch out for that.
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