Need software to shut down G4 against child's wishes

[vickishome]

I have a 13 year old child who has consistently stayed on the computer past the time she is allowed. She goes through the pretense of not knowing the time to "just one minute, I'm almost done" to outright defying her computer curfew time. I caught her one night back on the computer at 12:30 AM after making her get off earlier -- on a school night!

Energy Saver allows you to set up a start up and shut down time, but she can so easily bypass this by just clicking the cancel button when it tries to shut down.

What I want is a FORCED shut down which remains shut down (on her account) until the software allows the G4 to come back up.

Ideally, the software would give me a special "override" password so I can allow her to know and use her regular password throughout the day, but be unable to bypass the shutdown without the "special" password.

Further, I would hope the software would allow for different times, such as an earlier shutdown time for school nights than for non-school nights.

I don't want to fight my daughter every night, and I don't want to have to stay up all night to see if she gets back on the G4 in the middle of the night. I want the G4 to do this for me, automatically.

Is there any way to do this? I'm willing to purchase commercial software, if necessary. The computer in question is the G4 listed in my signature.

[tbsingleton73]

While not a software ware solution, you could try this work around.

I assume your daughter is staying up later on the computer to be on the internet and not do homework.

Move the internet modem/router out of her room and run a network cable into her room. Unplug the network at her time limit. If it's 9pm, unplug it at exactly 9pm without warning.
If you have to remove the modem to your room to she can't just sneek out and plug it back in.

I also found this, Mac Minder, I have not used it so can't say if it's any good.

I would also suggest losing computer access if caught breaking the "rules".
If you're susposed to be off at 9pm and your still on at 10pm you lose the computer for 24 hours on the first offence. If it continues to happen then the punishment gets longer.

[AHunter3]

Are you kidding? Put 20 of the best software developers in the country on it and you might stand a chance of keeping a computer-savvy 13 year old from being able to use the computer after a certain time. For about a week.

Now, if you're there at the time, you can keep her from doing things like booting from CD and editing or nuking various plist files and preferences, startup items, and the like, but if you're there at the time, you could just march her away from the computer.

No automated process running on a computer is going to permanently stymie a 13 year old for long.

[tbsingleton73]

I took a quick look at MacMinder, might be just what you're looking for.
It's easy to install, auto detects your user accounts, allow you to set usage time. ie, on Monday usage can be from 10am to 8pm but you can set usage time limit of 4 hours in the 10-8 period. Limits for each day can be different.

But like AHunter3 said, kids are smart and can figure things out. You'd have to have a password on your account that she could never guess or figure out.

And as I said before, a little (or a lot) of punishment for offences may be in order. Give her the limits she's asking for.

[vickishome]

I am definitely going to run a trial with Mac Minder. I most especially love the idea of being able to control it remotely AND being able to view her computer usage. This is the one area I have found lacking in Mac software. I can monitor everything my 16 year old daughter does on her Windows PC, but I have never found anything as good for the Mac.

Regarding some of the other comments...

The G4 is in the "computer room" just outside of our bedroom. My children are never allowed to have computers in their bedroom or in any non-public location in our house. Period.

We have reasons for not wanting to remove the router or modem each night (because I have programs running on my G5 at night that require internet access). Simply disconnecting her ethernet cable from the router is no good. She's been tested and found to be in the 99% intelligence range, showing in the beginning of the 7th grade to already be on the achievement level of college level. HOWEVER, she is not very computer savvy other than running programs. And I know how to make very complex passwords that she can never break. So she can figure out how to plug in her ethernet wire, but I doubt she will know how to bypass locking software. In the last 1.5 years, neither her sister nor her have been able to stop the computer monitoring I have on her sister's Windows PC.

I am fully aware of parenting skills, such as grounding her from the computer, but we have much bigger issues going on, and on this particular case, I'd rather use the "take the car keys away" approach than to "let them have the keys, and keep applying more and more punishments for disobeying" approach. Further, without having good monitoring software for the G4, I have no way of knowing when she gets up in the middle of the night to use the computer so she's learned how to get away with that behavior without any consequence whatsoever. I want NO to be NO with no arguments, no fuss, no nothing. The computer shuts down and that's that. We've gone 'round and 'round with disobedience and punishments to the point she is in therapy. Normal punishments have not worked with her. She takes the punishment and continues the undesirable behavior to the point that the punishments increased to unacceptable levels. I simply MUST find alternatives wherever possible.

In addition, there are times in which I want to go to sleep before her 11PM weekend curfew so I'd rather have software boot her off the computer than to always have to stay up to do it myself. And as much as my husband is a wonderful husband and father, his parenting skills of watching the clock and getting her off the computer isn't the greatest. He's either forgets the time, or is too soft or too harsh, none of which solves the problem.

There's more to the story than I'm explaining; more than anyone needs to know. But the crux of it is that I really need to find software to handle this. I will definitely try Mac Minder, and if anyone has any other software suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Thank you!

[tbsingleton73]

Vicki,

I have some clients who would be interested in how you make out with MacMinder, as would I.
Please post back with feedback on your experiences.

Thanks

[cwtnospam]

Some routers have the ability to turn on/off internet access to specific computers at times of your choosing. I believe my D-Link can do this, but I'm not at home to confirm it.

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by tbsingleton73 Vicki, I have some clients who would be interested in how you make out with MacMinder, as would I. Please post back with feedback on your experiences. Thanks

I'd be very happy to share my experience with it. I just downloaded the trial and am about to set it up on her computer (remotely! ). I really, really hope this will do what I'm wanting, including monitoring her usage.

On her sister's PC, the monitoring software is truly excellent, and I so much wish something similar was available for the Mac. I have hourly reports emailed to me with every keystroke (including, at my option, things such as copy/paste/delete keystrokes), every website, everything! It even does screen captures every 10 seconds (times are set by me) so when she does try to copy/paste, I can still see what she's up to. Specific keywords (that I set up) that appear on the screen or that she types are immediately emailed to me. And all chats are immediately emailed to me. Since this is all emailed to me (except the screen captures), I can view what she's doing no matter where I am as long as I can get to my emails. So when I was in Boston last month, little did she know, I could STILL monitor her every move on the computer, including all her chats INSTANTLY.

We've had major problems with her which are finally beginning to turn around somewhat which is partly why her sister is acting out as she is. She's had a very bad example to follow. Couple all that with (more than you wanted to know) the fact that these kids are extremely smart, have ADD/ADHD, ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder), and that I was neglected and abused as a child so I'm "winging it" as a parent (which resulting in me doing way too much for my kids -- making up for what my parents never did for me -- and being way too harsh with punishments -- because that's how I was raised). I never believed in any of this psychology stuff and thought it was nothing but a bunch of bull people used as excuses, but this last year and a half has very much change my mind. I, myself, have been in therapy which is finally beginning to show success. Now I have to "undo" a lot of things with my kids, such as no schedules because, having been a neglected child myself I never had a schedule of any kind and didn't know how to apply schedules to oppositional kids who did not respond to normal punishments, such as grounding, etc. So that's the story in a nutshell. More than anyone needs to know, but this explains why I am seeking parenting software to handle the computer issue.

We're still dealing with issues such as picking up clothes, flushing the toilet, closing drawers, hanging up towels, putting trash in the trash can, etc. so I'm basically overloaded with issues/rules/punishments. Anything I can do to resolve an issue without setting up yet another "if you do this, this punishment will be applied" is a Godsend. Keep your fingers crossed with Mac Minder!

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by cwtnospam Some routers have the ability to turn on/off internet access to specific computers at times of your choosing. I believe my D-Link can do this, but I'm not at home to confirm it.

If Mac Minder can't do what I want, I'd be interested in this possibility. But I have a question.

Does the router actually know which computer is connected? Is it possible to switch the ethernet wires to bypass this feature (making another computer on the network now be shut down while the G4 can come back up) or does it actually identify and recognize the computer itself and keeps that particular computer shut down no matter which port it's connected to?

Second question... can this be easily overridden in the RARE occasion one of my kids actually needs to use their computer past curfew to actually do (shock!) homework?

[cwtnospam]

I'm not sure because I'm not at home, but I believe it uses the MAC address of the computer, so changing ethernet ports wouldn't fool it.

Overriding it is as simple as going to the router's admin page and turning off the feature.

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by cwtnospam I'm not sure because I'm not at home, but I believe it uses the MAC address of the computer, so changing ethernet ports wouldn't fool it. Overriding it is as simple as going to the router's admin page and turning off the feature.

That all sounds excellent!

One last question, if you know. Does it work with Windows PCs? We have 6 computers networked together, 3 Macs and 3 Windows PCs.

I would especially love it if it could also shut down my older daughter's PC. Even though she is now excellent about following her computer curfew (53 days at a Wilderness Camp "Brat Camp" does wonders for defiant teens! ), her younger sister knows how to use that computer, as well. However, we can also have big sister change her password to something little sis doesn't know to solve that problem.

Somehow, they never showed parenting to be like this on the Brady Bunch shows!

[blueshead]

Put a lock on the door..

[vickishome]

First experience with Mac Minder.

While it claims you can administer it remotely, you cannot install it remotely. So you have to wait for your child to be off the computer and out of sight to install it (so they can't see you enter the administrator's password). I find this to be undesirable, but not a deal-breaker.

This is not as good as SpectorSoft's eBlaster software which allows you to do everything remotely, including installation. THIS is what I wish I could find for the Mac. But their Mac version isn't anywhere as good as their Windows version. All their Mac version does is take screen shots which you can only view when on their computer. You do not get any reports sent to you. You cannot control it remotely. You have to view page after page after page of screen shots which makes running searches on keywords impossible.

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by blueshead Put a lock on the door..

It's an open room connected to the family room. No door.

But that also means they cannot use the computers behind a closed door which is one of the things we like most about the location of the computer room. It is a highly visible room that can be seen from the main family room and our bedroom (although, the child in question has learned how to quietly close our bedroom door at night).

[cwtnospam]

Quote: Originally Posted by vickishome This is not as good as SpectorSoft's eBlaster software which allows you to do everything remotely, including installation. THIS is what I wish I could find for the Mac.

The ability to install remotely on a machine that's just sitting on your network and not net-booting may be desirable in this case, but it's also a major security problem.

I think your best bet is going to be the router, but even that will need to be locked away, because it may be possible to do a hard reset that will also reset the router password, which will then allow her to get back online.

[tbsingleton73]

Apple's Remote Desktop software while expensive allow's you remote control of over Mac's, you can even watch what is happening on the screen, live, without the knowledge of the person being watched.
I know it has the ability (not sure of restrictions or how complicated) to installed software remotely.

http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by cwtnospam The ability to install remotely on a machine that's just sitting on your network and not net-booting may be desirable in this case, but it's also a major security problem. I think your best bet is going to be the router, but even that will need to be locked away, because it may be possible to do a hard reset that will also reset the router password, which will then allow her to get back online.

Well, Mac Minder offers a free 10 day trial. And having read the docs, it does have an option that I think might work. So I'm going to give it a try.

It won't do the full monitoring that I'd love to have, but it will solve the biggest problem -- getting her to understand that when it's curfew time, that means NOW, not "in a minute" which can persist for 5, 10, 15 minutes and force us into a confrontation with her. We have bigger battles to pick.

I was also thinking about the SpectorSoft Spector for the Mac (which I have already bought and installed). I may be able to figure out how to view the screen shots remotely by installing it on my PowerBook and (if possible) linking the data files to my daughter's G4. That would mean I could only view the screenshots when I'm connected to the G4, but I've been doing that with some of my other software without any problems. It's not the best solution, but it's better than what I have now. Remote monitoring, even if it's on my patio with my PowerBook, is MUCH better than having to wait for her to be off the G4 (she does not know Spector is installed on the G4 -- she does not know she's being monitored at all).

[Edit] Correction... she does know she's being monitored, but has no clue how or what software is being used, etc. But she does know I am monitoring that computer. I'm sorry for misstating this.[/Edit]

Dang, it was so much simpler when I was a kid. The biggest issue back then was making sure the TV was turned off at night (with its whopping 3 channels that went off the air at night anyway). I absolutely love the technology of today, but trying to control kids' usage is not easy. The internet, computer games, chatting, cell phones, cutting, "punk" and the music of today is not making parenting an easy job at all. Thank goodness we've at least avoided substance abuse so at least I can count my blessings on that one.

[vickishome]

Quote: Originally Posted by tbsingleton73 Apple's Remote Desktop software while expensive allow's you remote control of over Mac's, you can even watch what is happening on the screen, live, without the knowledge of the person being watched. I know it has the ability (not sure of restrictions or how complicated) to installed software remotely. http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

Thanks, but I don't think this will help much. I can install Mac Minder later when my daughter is away from the computer, and from then on, I can administrate it remotely. Everything else that remotedesktop offers is "live" which requires that I be actively watching her activity as it happens which just isn't possible all the time.

I'm thinking that Mac Minder can do the shutdown automatically for me while playing with possible remote viewing of the Spector data files might be a reasonable work around for me. It's not quite what I want, but it may be the best I can get for now, and it will at least cover the basics of what I need.

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by vickishome she does not know Spector is installed on the G4 -- she does not know she's being monitored at all

As a parent of a teenager, I would advise you to tell your daughter that her computer use may be monitored. It's a question of trust. It's bad enough that you are monitoring her computer use, but it will be much worse if she ever finds out that you have been doing this behind her back.

[cwtnospam]

Quote: Originally Posted by vickishome Well, Mac Minder offers a free 10 day trial. And having read the docs, it does have an option that I think might work. So I'm going to give it a try.

Ok, just so you know, the D-Link can block ranges of ip addresses from getting to the web during hours you choose. Unfortunately, it doesn't let you go from say, 10 pm to 7am because those are parts of two separate days. You can block from 10 pm to 11:55 pm and then set another block from midnight to 7 am, so there would be a five minute interval with no block. Since it doesn't recognize MAC addresses, you'd need to block all available ip addresses (x.x.x.2 - x.x.x.254) or at least all not being used by other computers in order to be sure she couldn't get onto the web.