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Old 08-16-2002, 01:33 PM   #1
corvus
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video card options for Quartz Extreme?

Well, the wife and I can't afford a new powermac this season, but in order to take advantage of Quartz Extreme, it looks like we'll need a new video card. We have a 350Mhz AGP G4 with a Rage128 Pro (16MB) card now.

From looking about, it looks like my only choice for an AGP retail card is either the Radeon 8500 and the new Radeon 9000.

The 8500 is expensive, so I'm leaning towards the 9000. Does anyone have a 9000 yet? I know they are new, but I haven't seen any posts about them.

Do I have other choices?

Thanks!
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:18 PM   #2
taikahn
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the 16mb agp card you have will support QE.
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Old 08-16-2002, 05:26 PM   #3
mervTormel
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Quote:
Originally posted by taikahn
the 16mb agp card you have will support QE.

i don't know about that, taikahn...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.html

"*Requirements:
Quartz Extreme functionality is supported by the following video GPUs: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 MX, or GeForce4 Ti or any AGP-based ATI RADEON GPU. A minimum of 16MB VRAM is required."

i don't think the ATIRage128Pro makes the cut to enable QE functionality, even tho it is a 16MB VRAM card. it's quite long in the tooth, actually.

concensus?

corvus, there have been published some interesting articles about buying cheaper PC video cards out there and firmware'ing them up to rev for QE. i think there was a hint at the main site about this, and perhaps at http://www.gargleblaster.org/
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Old 08-16-2002, 05:46 PM   #4
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you can convert a geforce2 from pc to mac with a firmware install i believe

xler8yourmac.com i think has an article on the how to's

it will give you plenty of performance bang for your buck indeed
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Old 08-16-2002, 06:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by mervTormel

i don't know about that, taikahn...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.html

i don't think the ATIRage128Pro makes the cut to enable QE functionality, even tho it is a 16MB VRAM card. it's quite long in the tooth, actually.

concensus?

RagePro are not supported by QE.
Here is a very long thread on another board with a bunch of people having flashing success with PC cards.
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Old 08-16-2002, 06:59 PM   #6
corvus
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Quote:
Originally posted by taikahn
the 16mb agp card you have will support QE.

I thought so too, but it isn't listed as supported on Apple's Quartz Extreme page:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.html

That page says:

Requirements:
Quartz Extreme functionality is supported by the following video GPUs: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 MX, or GeForce4 Ti or any AGP-based ATI RADEON GPU. A minimum of 16MB VRAM is required.

So, I'm not sure what to believe, and I'm not sure how to test it once I get 10.2 either.
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Old 08-19-2002, 01:17 PM   #7
phidauex
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I think at the minimum it must be all of the following things or better:

16mb
AGP
Radeon.

The RagePro is the first two, but not the third, hence not officially supported for QE. The Radeon 7000 is the first and the third, but not the second, hence not QE supported (though my Beige G3 is hoping some solution might come up...)

Its vague.. hopefully we'll get some solid user reports soon.

peace,
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:56 AM   #8
tncook
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ATI dropped the price of the RADEON 8500's by $100 yesterday. Inside Mac Games had a little blurb. The best price I have seen is at Page Computers for $167.88. I am thinking about getting one at that price.

http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/S0936780.html
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Old 08-20-2002, 10:02 AM   #9
corvus
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Quote:
Originally posted by tncook
ATI dropped the price of the RADEON 8500's by $100 yesterday.

Probably because the Radeon 9000 Mac edition will be out soon. I think it should be even cheaper than the 8500.
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Old 08-20-2002, 10:19 AM   #10
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I just installed the radeon 7000 in my G4/yikes PCI last night. Unfortunately, for those of us with PCI video slots that appears to be the highest choice.
I will be getting Jaguar by saturday, according to apple on my preorder, so I'll be able to see how it functions. Right now, with 10.1.5 it is an apparent improvement in rendering speed and quality over the stock card, but I'll know more by this saturday.

on the good side, it renders my Diablo II running in classic a bit snappier, and I lost a lot of sleep because I couldn't seem to get my sorceress into the pit of vipers without dying. heh.
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Old 08-20-2002, 11:05 AM   #11
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lerkfish, I'm eager to hear what you find on whether the Radeon 7000 can handle Jaguar. I bought the same card a week or so ago for my G3.
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by vickishome
lerkfish, I'm eager to hear what you find on whether the Radeon 7000 can handle Jaguar. I bought the same card a week or so ago for my G3.

oh, i'm already relegated to the near-certainty it wont fully utilize quartz extreme, if at all. But I fully expect it to work with Jaguar, or they'll be heck to pay (and I have to imagine it will, if it works now with 10.1.5)
elsewhere I saw reports that earlier versions of OSX "broke" the video card display properties, but that 10.1.5 corrected that. I'd think having to correct that once would mean the next version won't break it again.

but regardless, I'll post here my findings when I finally get Jaguar up and running.....grrrreeeeooowwwwwwwssshhppppthhh!
(have no idea how to write a jaguar growl...that's about as close as I can get.)
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:45 PM   #13
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In your search for a card upgrade you should also take note of whether the AGP slot in your mac is 2X accelerated. Without that requirement your upgrade options are *really* limited.

My megabit-ethernet G4 was the last of the line of the 1X AGP boxes, and sadly unable to accept a Quartz Extreme compliant card. Phooey. I believe it was <http://www.xlr8yourmac.com> that had the details.

good luck-
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:48 PM   #14
lerkfish
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike S
In your search for a card upgrade you should also take note of whether the AGP slot in your mac is 2X accelerated. Without that requirement your upgrade options are *really* limited.

My megabit-ethernet G4 was the last of the line of the 1X AGP boxes, and sadly unable to accept a Quartz Extreme compliant card. Phooey. I believe it was <http://www.xlr8yourmac.com> that had the details.

good luck-
Mike

hey! at least you have an AGP slot! (suddenly realized that sounded like my old man: "why when I was growing up, we had to walk 14 miles to school, and it was uphill BOTH ways!")
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:57 PM   #15
corvus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike S
In your search for a card upgrade you should also take note of whether the AGP slot in your mac is 2X accelerated. Without that requirement your upgrade options are *really* limited.

I'm pretty sure that all the G4's have at least an AGPx2 slot, or at least those with sawtooth or later boards (after December 2nd 1999). My G4 350 is the least of those models, and even it has AGPx2.

I usually check everymac.com for machine specs.

And AGPx4 cards work in AGPx2 slots in case someone was wondering.

Take care.
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Old 08-20-2002, 01:49 PM   #16
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For the hardware challenged... how do I check to see if my G3 has an AGP slot, and if so, if it's 2X accelerated? Okay, I feel 100% sure my G3 doesn't have such animal at all, but how do I find out for sure.

My poor G3 is at the very bottom of the compatibility list. It's the old beige G3/266 (server version). It was a rocking machine when it first came out. Now it just limps along, being passed up by the newer Macs.

I only use the G3 to let my kids surf the internet, chat with friends, and play online games so all I want is for it to run Jag, even if it's just at a limping pace. I don't want to maintain two different OS versions between my G4 and G3.
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:17 PM   #17
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No AGP slot in Blue & White G3's or before...which includes beige G3's.

I've got a B&W G3/350, best I can do graphics card-wise is ATI Radeon 7000 (PCI slot). But even that won't get ya Quartz Extreme.
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:23 PM   #18
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RE: Beige G3 and Jaguar

I don't know about the rest of the specs, but Jag should run fine without quartz extreme. You only need the souped up video card to take advantage of the Quartz Extreme acceleration., That doesn't mean the rest of Jag-wire won't run. (I like how Steve says it..."Jag-wire"...it reminds me of a british post-doc I used to work with...)

From the System Requirements:

"Mac OS X Version 10.2 requires a Power Mac G3, G4, G4 Cube; iMac; PowerBook G3, G4; iBook; or eMac computer; at least 128MB of physical RAM and a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card. Mac OS X does not support the original PowerBook G3 or processor upgrade cards. Verify your hardware is supported from the list below." (Beige G3 is listed "below")

Notice that it doesn't specify a minimum video card for basic 10.2 functionality.....

Last edited by sbur; 08-20-2002 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:52 PM   #19
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The switch from PCI to AGP graphics slots happened with the first couple generations of G4 towers -- those with the "Yikes" motherboard had PCI graphics slots; those with the "Sawtooth" motherboard had AGP.

If you're not sure which motherboard you have, you can download MacTracker, which gives details for each Mac model. You can also launch Apple System Profiler and click on the "Devices and Volumes" tab. If your machine has an AGP slot, it will tell you in the "PCI" section [on my machine, next to the PCI information is a note that says "SLOT-1 (AGP)"].
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Old 08-21-2002, 06:12 AM   #20
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Thanks for the confirmation that the G3 doesn't have an AGP slot.

What exactly is Quartz Extreme? What functionality will the G3 lose when I upgrade it to Jag? I know it has something to do with the way the screens are transparant. Is it necessary for the Genie Affect? Will the G3 lose the "movement" on the screen saver?

Remember, the G3 is being used by my kids so I'm concerned about what things they will lose that I know they like about OS X. I have a little battle going on with my almost teenage daughter who has declared that Windows is better than Macs because they have Windows computers at her school, and giving her a crippled Mac to work on won't exactly win her over.
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