Any difference between Apple RAM and those other kinds?

[eajones516]

I'm looking at buying a new PowerBook (12", SuperDrive) and I want to max out the RAM. Apple sells 1 GB of that kind of RAM for about $350, but I've been shopping around, and I've found other brands that match the correct specs for $150-$170. So I was wondering if anyone had any insight into whether it makes any difference whether you buy Apple's RAM or Kensington's or whoever's. Is it bad to buy the cheap stuff?

[tlarkin]

Generally ram is ram, but sometimes there are hardware compatability issues. Just purchase ram from somewhere that gives you a return policy for incompatability issues. Crucial is good for this. I have gotten tons of 3rd party ram to work with macs, and I have seen issues with some third party ram and macs, you are pretty much just in a trial and error situation. Try it, and if it doesn't work then return it and try another brand.

[styrafome]

I hear that Apple RAM is really Samsung RAM. I just maxed my PowerBook to 2GB using sale RAM at OWC (macsales.com) and it's been running flawlessly. I have never bought extra RAM from Apple. Even Crucial is looking expensive now.

If you buy non-Apple RAM, the number one rule is to make sure it comes with a lifetime warranty because even "good" RAM can fail at any time after the purchase. Even better is an "advance lifetime warranty" where they will ship you the replacement RAM before they receive the old RAM from you, which can save days.

[giskard22]

Wow... I'll bet at least a dollar this thread gets 10 posts in its first day. :-D Everyone and his mother has an opinion about this.

Apple uses several OEM suppliers for its RAM. Samsung is one of them. Here's the thing about Apple RAM: it is top-tier quality, it's guaranteed to be right for your particular computer, and if you have an AppleCare Protection Plan for your computer it's included in the coverage. I have seen bad Apple RAM, but almost never, and I have been in a position to see lots of bad RAM.

That said, there are several other brands of RAM that you can depend on to give you good RAM for your Mac. I'm sure you'll read about several once this thread gets going, but Kingston and Crucial are two to start with. I think you'll find that these good brands aren't all that much cheaper than official Apple RAM.

The last word is really to never buy RAM that isn't specifically advertised as working with your model of Mac. That should mean, assuming a reputable supplier, that the RAM was tested for compatibility. If you have a 17" PowerBook, you can't just walk into Best Buy, pick up something labeled "PC2700 SO-DIMM" and expect it to work properly. There's a lot of crap RAM out there.

[tlarkin]

Apple used to use certain JDEC specifications on their ram which made other manufacturers ram incompatable. These specifications had nothing to do with speed or performance, but seemed more like an excuse for them to sell you apple only ram from apple. Nowadays RAM is RAM, and the cost of the ram does not reflect the performance. I have had top speed, top of the line, corsair memory run like crap in both PCs and Macs because of the overall hardware configuration was cauing the ram to bottle neck when highly stressed for over 30 minutes.

I replaced it with off the shelf simpletech ram and the machine never ever once had a problem again, that was ofcourse trying different sets of corsair ram just to make sure I did not get a bad set.

[eajones516]

Thanks for all your thoughts so far -- I look forward to hearing more on the debate (I had no idea I was hitting a hot button issue!).

I also have a related question: if I do choose to buy non-Apple RAM, what online vendors have youall had good luck with? There are so many, and they mostly look soooo sketchy....

[styrafome]

I've had good service and reliable chips from Crucial, Ramjet, and macsales.com.

[jonsaw]

There are a number of good RAM vendors, but I recommend Data Memory Systems (DMS), primarily because they know the Mac--though they sell RAM for all computers, cameras, etc., they're not just another PC RAM vendor that bothers to sell to people who own Macs too. I fix Macs, do upgrades, etc., and I've bought RAM from DMS for several years, and they've more consistently shipped RAM that's the proper spec for each Mac model I've bought it for, than some other companies I and my clients have dealt with. Their prices are pretty low, but not rock-bottom, but I don't believe in saving two dollars by buying from the lowballers and then crossing my fingers and hoping I get reliable RAM. Here's an example of what can happen if you order RAM from a company that doesn't really know the Mac: One company I've had bad luck with, has been 1-800-4MEMORY, otherwise known as Coast to Coast Memory. Though they tend to have some of the lowest prices (but DMS often matches their prices), I've seen 4MEMORY ship the wrong RAM several times--not just RAM that turned out not to be reliable, but the wrong spec altogether, for some other Mac model than the one you specifically ordered, or even for a PC. And at least twice when I've had this happen, when I or my client contacted them to arrange for the correct RAM to be shipped, the replacement RAM was the wrong spec too. Some years ago, when I was working with earlier Mac models that couldn't take composite SIMMs (which are for PCs), they'd sometimes ship composite SIMMs even when I specifically asked them not to. They seem to be fixated on shipping only whatever the latest PC RAM is. One of their usual mistakes is to ship PC133 RAM when the Mac you're ordering the RAM for, requires PC100 RAM. This recently happened to a client of mine who has a G4 Gigabit Ethernet tower, who ordered some RAM for his Mac, from 4MEMORY, without asking my recommendation on who to order it from (to top it off, this was the replacement RAM they'd sent him to replace a DDR PC2100 RAM board they'd mistakenly sent him earlier, which is for a different Mac model altogether, and wouldn't even fit in the Gigabit's RAM slots). AND, the PC133 RAM board they sent him had its size identification sticker, labeled "512", deliberately placed over the board's "PC133" sticker. I recommended that he call them to ask what was going on. 4MEMORY told him that PC100 RAM is no longer being manufactured, which is either untrue, or not relevant, since a PC133 RAM board can be reprogrammed to run at PC100 speed, which is what they should have done before shipping the RAM to him. Their web site lists PC100 RAM as still being available, which was what the client ordered via their web site. And, when my client talked with them, they insisted that PC133 RAM should be fine in every computer, Mac or PC, when it's not, especially not when mixed with PC100 RAM, which is often what's already installed. He finally sent the PC133 RAM back to them, got his money back, and ordered the RAM from DMS, and had me install it, and it worked fine.

Around the same time this happened, I had several clients with G4 AGP and Gigabit Ethernet towers bring in their Macs for general instability (too-frequent crashing, directory damage, etc.), and in each case but one, it was due to a mix of PC133 and PC100 RAM--these models are spec'd for PC100 RAM, which is what they came with originally, but whoever later sold them the PC133 RAM (vendors other than 1-800-4MEMORY, so 4MEMORY isn't the only one guilty of this), didn't know or care. This mismatch of RAM with different timing specs was apparently OK at first in these Macs, since the problems didn't occur right away when the PC133 RAM was installed a couple years ago, but over time, something changed--possibly the values of some components in the RAM boards had drifted, and/or the later versions of Mac OS, which have tighter timing requirements, tripped up this mismatch. I confirmed that the mismatched RAM was the cause of the trouble, by running the OS X utility "memtest", which is a thorough RAM tester, on each of these G4s, and in some cases, got bad RAM test results almost immediately; one or two took longer to return the bad results. The fix for two of these Macs was to replace the PC133 RAM with PC100 RAM, and the fix for two of the others was to remove the PC100 RAM and leave their PC133 RAM boards installed. I was uncomfortable leaving the PC133 RAM installed, even just by itself, because these Macs are specd for PC100 RAM, but memtest passed these older G4s when just the PC133 RAM was installed, seeming to confirm that the main problem was the mismatch between PC100 and PC133. I don't know if the PC133 RAM will drift further in the future, making it unreliable even by itself in these older Macs, but I told the clients to keep me informed if their Macs begins to crash frequently again.

[eajones516]

Wow, jonsaw, that is all SO helpful. I just checked out DMS, and they do seem to have prices comparable to the other cheaper retailers I'd found previously. Though, when I went to look up what their prices are on RAM for my iMac (15" 800MHz; which I also want to max out), they had both 144-pin and 168-pin types listed, which seems a little odd.

Admittedly, though, I know very, very little about RAM (I'm learning a lot reading all your comments) -- maybe that's not weird?

[TazmanDman]

Quote: Originally Posted by eajones516 Though, when I went to look up what their prices are on RAM for my iMac (15" 800MHz; which I also want to max out), they had both 144-pin and 168-pin types listed, which seems a little odd. ?

That's because in that particular model the slot inside the "dome" is 168-pin and the slot on the bottom (user-accessible) is SoDimm 144 pin.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by TazmanDman That's because in that particular model the slot inside the "dome" is 168-pin and the slot on the bottom (user-accessible) is SoDimm 144 pin.

This is correct, they probably got confused on which slot you were referring to.

[eajones516]

Ahhhh, it all makes so much sense now...