The realities of switching from Windows to Mac OS

[Phil St. Romain]

Quote: . . .Apple deliberatly makes it a pain in the ass to do anything non-trivial with a Mac.

That wouldn't be very good business strategy, and I'm sure they're wanting to sell as many Macs as possible.

It works much better around here to state what your specific problem is and learn ways to resolve it than to blame Apple for your lack of familiarity with how to work their computers.

[tlarkin]

Apple wants you to use apple certified componets for their machines. I work in the IT field and repair: Macs, PCs, desktops, laptops, network troubleshooting, OS troubleshooting, laser printers, injet printers, i mean you name it and pay me, my company will fix it.

In my experience it is best to use apple parts. yeah its more expensive but at least you know its fully supported. I have had numerous little problems here and there with tons of 3rd party DVDRW retail box drives. Apple does modify firmware and you will find some minor differences in non apple hardware. Sometimes non apple hardware works great, and sometimes it works great with a few glitches.

I have flashed many PC video cards to a mac rom video card and for the most part they work fine.

When you make the switch expect to have less 3rd party support, expect less video games, expect less software being developed, and expect to buy into apple's standards. They are good machines but you have to go with how apple designs them, unlike custom building a PC.

[rubaiyat]

Quote: Originally Posted by CAlvarez I'm not going to argue that point, other than to note that you don't even know the basics: Don't buy incompatible hardware.

I have to agree with John on just about every point he has made and I have been using Macs for over 20 years now.

I am not attacking you but "Don't buy incompatible hardware" is a silly thing to say. Often on the Mac there is no guarrantee that even the over the top prices we are asked to pay ensures that we have compatible hardware. Even if Apple didn't work so hard at making hardware unusable (SCSI, scanners, dongles, media, video connectors, graphics cards, buses, FireWire 800, fundamentally altered OSes and CPUs etc)

Also the limited experience and numbers of Mac users often makes a purchasing decision a step into the void.

All the extra cash we lay out above that of a similar PC user makes mistakes bigger and much more difficult to get out of. We can't just throw it away and try again because there maybe nothing left in the budget to experiment with. This makes us much less willing to try, reinforcing the lack of practical experience.

Let's face it most of the expert advice and consultants out there are not Mac! I have had suppliers flatly refuse to sell me hardware because they had no way of knowing whether it would work and they were not prepared to wear the cost of a possible return.

[mkoreiwo]

I've read this whole thread and found it very interesting and enlightening...

I went back to re-read CAlvarez's first post, and basically, I agree with him. I recently switched, and have found things not all sunshine and roses. One Mac app (Toast) had an applet (Spin Doctor 2) insist that it needed Toast - which was already installed! Granted this is not native Mac S/W, but it is one of it's most popular. The other issue I had concerned a Dazzle CF reader that I attempted to use this past weekend to upload our photos from a weekend trip.... Would not read the files, even though it could open the folders.... Turns out that model id incompatible with Macs. At least without searching the web for the "right" driver... I tried one that was recommended and it didn't work. I went out, bought a new one and thankfully it does work.

My biggest gotcha is VNC which I have installed at work on my PC and used to connect to from home via our secure website... tried the same thing on the Mac....Java error.... This is a killer since i need that connection. As a result, I will have to keep the pc around until I could resolve this. Not being a java programmer, nor having one at work is going to mean this may never go away....

Aside from those issues, I still believe Macs are an awesome platform. They are elegant in design, and the problems for switchers, is that we have "learned" over the years the it is done in Windows... and further have heard the litany of the perfect world of the Macintosh....

The truth is somewhere in between, which I suspect CAlvarez was trying to say... We both have adopted a new way to do our computing, and have found that reality is somewhat different than what is bandied about by the Mac press and their followers.

I admire both platforms: XP is very reliable, way more than older win releases, but I suspect that OS 10 is a cut above... since my time with the Mac isn't long enough to bear that out, I am going to rely upon my experience with unix to hold onto that one.

Just wanted to express my two cents... There seemed to be a modicum of defensiveness from the Mac posts... I just don;t see why. I love my Mac! And I'm still just a dorky noob with it! But its not above a little criticism....

[yellow]

Quote: Originally Posted by mkoreiwo My biggest gotcha is VNC which I have installed at work on my PC and used to connect to from home via our secure website... tried the same thing on the Mac....Java error.... This is a killer since i need that connection. As a result, I will have to keep the pc around until I could resolve this. Not being a java programmer, nor having one at work is going to mean this may never go away....

There's a couple different VNC clients for Mac OS X.

http://www.versiontracker.com/php/se...acosx&x=13&y=8

ChickenoftheVNC is pretty popular, I believe.

[mkoreiwo]

...Yes, I have tried that, along with OSXvnc, VNC dimension, and VNCthing...

...But unless i am mistaken, to connect , the work pc need to be running vnc, at home, all I need is the browser, since it is essentially a java applet that does all the work...

Thanks for the info though! I just updated my work pc to the latest vnc, I will try the COTVNC again... Who knows...

Mike

[CAlvarez]

I haven't tried the plain web client, but I use Chicken all day every day and it works perfectly. I always have at least a couple of servers open.

[mkoreiwo]

...I wonder if we're getting off topic... but...

Are you connecting from within your work network? I am home behind my router, going out thru the net to our neoteris server then to my pc.

I notice that the Mac java plugin I have is all 1.3, whereas the pc seems to have 1.4...?

Actually I suspect out host is fouling up the java script or whatever... I have no problems elsewhere, and I have tried all the browers on my Mac, Netscape, Safari, and ugh(!) even IE.. no luck anywhere...

[Craig R. Arko]

Quote: Originally Posted by mkoreiwo ...I wonder if we're getting off topic... but...

Yes, you are. It's easy and fun to start new threads in the appropriate forum.

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by mkoreiwo at home, all I need is the browser, since it is essentially a java applet that does all the work

As others have already said, I would definitely recommend against trying to use any client that is a java applet in a web browser. You will do much better with a native stand-alone application than with an applet. This is true for every type of application, not just for VNC clients.
So try any of the various stand-alone VNC clients for OS X.

[mcqueary]

Quote: Originally Posted by sao . --Have you tried the Fujitsu ScanSnap fi-5110EOX? "It is the best (probably the only) high speed scanner that works with OS X. The ScanSnap is sheet fed - small footprint on the desktop. It has ADF for up to 50 sheets. It scans in full color, and scans both sides of the page at the same time. It is incredibly fast, and scans to perfect PDF's". You can use it in MacOS X, although Fujitsu doesn't admit it's OS X compatible (the scanner is not TWAIN, but will run in OS X using the software provided by Fujutsu). You can download the Scansnap manager for Macintosh from: http://scansnap.fujitsu.com/jp/downl...10eox.html#mac [snip] .

Hi there, I was overjoyed when I ran across this post, because I have recently acquired a ScanSnap fi-5110EOX myself and am looking to get it working with my G4 PB. However, being a dumb American, I can't make heads or tails of what I find at the referenced link above. The only download links on that page seem to be for PC-based InstallShield executables, not MacOS. I do see the word "Macintosh" in English down the page, but again, no Mac-looking download. Can you or someone help me figure out which link actually downloads the OSX version of ScanSnap manager you reference above?

Thanks in advance,
Larry McQueary

(p.s. this scanner, while expensive, has allowed me to empty two filing cabinets full of personal paperwork and to go almost completely paperless - highly recommended for those who can afford it!)

[hexstar]

Quote: Originally Posted by CAlvarez Or, "How to win people over to the Mac instead of driving them off." I'm in the process of switching. Despite what Mac people have said, not because of it. And definitely despite Apple's stupid, condescending, and offensive ads that make me feel like I should only use a Mac if I'm a moron or a hippie. When someone lies to me about one thing, I distrust everything else he has to say. So I might have switched much sooner if it wasn't for all that. 1. Let's get over the "Windows crashes all the time" crap. It doesn't. I'm an IT consultant supporting hundreds of Windows XP, 2000, and 2003 machines. They don't crash. Simple as that. They run, and keep running. Patches are applied easily. Apps install easily. There are occasional problems as with any technology item, but no more than there are on the Macs. They're not perfect either. If you think they are because YOURS never crashes, you need to remember that you're just one example. I get to see hundreds of examples. 2. "Windows is ugly." Get real. For one, you can skin Windows to look like anything you want--even OS X. Secondly, all I did every time someone told me that was roll my eyes. I like eye candy, but if that's all an OS has going for it, I don't want it. Plus, I and a few million other people don't think Windows is ugly at all. OS X is prettier, sure, but that doesn't make Windows outright ugly. 3. Viruses. It's a good point, but don't harp on it too much, since good virus protection makes it a non-issue. Just make the point and move on. Same for spyware. 4. Hardware plug-and-play. It's mostly a non-issue these days since everything related to drivers has improved so much. Don't try to make arguments that applied to an OS version from five years ago. There is a small margin of favor to the Mac here; it does work out-of-the-box with many devices. Then again, ALL devices have Windows support, and some don't have Mac support at all. Touche. Since most people haven't had device problems, you lose them when you try to convince them that Windows has all these device issues--it doesn't. 5. Performance. OS X is leaner and faster than Windows. The applications and data files are THE SAME though. Net result...comparable Mac and Wintel machines perform about the same in the real world in real use. Some things which depend on pure clock ticks to do, like some pure math work, will happen faster on a Wintel due to the faster clock. Some things happen faster on the Mac due to better architecture. 6. OS X is simpler to use. Well, sorta. But here's where the user's expectations and abilities change the rules. OS X makes all of the basic and intermediate stuff very easy to do. Advanced stuff gets very complicated because it is purposely hidden from the user. Windows, on the other hand, makes it easier to do the hard stuff, generally. The bottom line is that OS X has one distinct advantage, which nobody ever told me about: Out of the box, it provides a more complete, rich, and attractive user experience. More apps and utilities are built in. Most things you would want to do are already there. A thousand little tiny detail things are just done better on the Mac, and put together, they add up to a big advantage. Sometimes Windows forces you to get an add-on or to take steps to accomplish something which is just *done* on the Mac. This provides balance against the Mac's greater cost. I haven't done the numbers, but I think you'd find that you'd narrow the cost a bit when you factor in the built-in capabilities. And some silly little things like Sherlock save a lot of time, even for a very experienced computer/web power user like myself. I turn to it more often every day. I await your flames...

if you plan to store 10GB+ of data be sure to get a drive much bigger then 30GB or prepare to have MacOS X crash on you each and every day...or you could keep your drive and without having to shell out more $$$ use YellowDog Linux like me which is a great MacOS X alternative and is a free opensource OS Fedora Linux distro.

Quote: . . .Apple deliberatly makes it a pain in the ass to do anything non-trivial with a Mac.

actually Apple has licensed TSS (makers of YellowDog Linux) to sell Apple laptops/computers with YellowDog Linux installed on them so I don't think that's true, and if you don't like the restrictiveness you speak of in MacOS X then simply format your macs HD and put a Linux/Unix distro on it

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by hexstar if you plan to store 10GB+ of data be sure to get a drive much bigger then 30GB or prepare to have MacOS X crash on you each and every day

Hexstar:
Please give more details about the problems that you have experienced. I haven't heard of anyone else having such a problem. I have a 20 GB drive on my iBook and have had about 15 GB of files on it for years with no problem. The problems you apparently experienced are not intrinsic to OS X.

[G4Man]

CAlvarez, you make some interesting points, as always. I'm a relatively low-tech user of both Mac and Windows systems. At work I live in Windows World, and have since W3.??? At home we've had Macs since the the little "all in one" device. But I dont' especially LIKE tinkering with machines and systems, I just want the thing to do the tasks I assign without too much fuss. To address your points one at a time...

1. When I first started using Windows the instability was scary. But as my institution evolved through NT3.5 to NT4.0 to Windows 2000 I had progressively fewer stability issues. Meanwhile my Macs, which had always been rock-solid with what they were running, left the System 7x years and entered the System 8x years. There I began to have strange hangs, lockups, extension probs, etc. of a scale I'd never seen on a Macintosh. But X cured all of that. I now work at a smaller company with less IT support. I definitely see more printer issues, program crashes, system lockups, even though I'm running XP now. Some of these are due to the increased virus burden that Windows suffers, some may be due to this company's choice of a Novell server for our network. Curiously, the main software probs I experience w/ 10.2 or 10.3 are w/ MS programs: Word, Excel, Entourage, or Explorer.

2. Yeah. I still think the "look and feel" of OS X is the best I've ever seen, but Windows isn't UGLY. Maybe less lush, more overtly functional, or maybe MY Windows looks that way because it's my work box and I don't mess with it much.

3. In principle I agree with you. On the ground, I"m amazed at the number of infected machines we get. Viruses, spyware, you name it. Despite antiviral and anti-spyware software at both the network and personal machine level, we have, on any given day, at least one machine with some sort of intruder problem. Meanwhile, NAV on my Macs has yet to rejister a hit...

4. This has improved dramatically on both systems. Macs have always been "plug'-n-play" in their own little pond, now that pond is getting larger. Windows XP finally has something approaching effortless "plug-n-play"As a non-propellerhead, I think the availability of drivers via the internet has made finding the proper drivers much easier.

5. Performance. I do simple things on a computer: word processing, spreadsheets and charts, Powerpoint presentations, a bit of limited graphics manipulation, a bit of statistical software. I see little difference in performance between systems. Many times, as noted, the programs are the same MS Office programs. I personallly like the "feel" of the Mac versions of Office better, but not enough better to make that a true selection factor. It has to be noted that the pool of software for Windows IS much bigger...

6. I'm one of those low-tech users who appreciates things happening reliably in background, so this has always been a big factor for me. I'm not sure what you mean by "the hard stuff", but I"m pretty sure I'm not doing it and don't want to.

In the end I just like the elegance of the Mac, both the hardware and software. At work I run XP on a Toshiba Satellite laptop. Workable enough, usable, fast, relaible if Consumer Reports is to be believed, and inexpensive. But compare this to the Powerbook I'm keying right now. The PBook is way lighter and thinner (I take my own laptop on road trips for this reason), the key feel is way better, the ports are more accessible, touchpad works better for me, like the wide screen. And OS 10.3 just seems to work seamlessly for me, in a way that I haven't felt with Windows XP. I could probably find a Windows laptop that approached the physical grace of thi machine, in fact I was shopping for one a few months ago. Ended up costing about what I paid for the PBook. Now if I could only find a decent 2-botton Bluetooth mouse. Windows has spoiled me for right-clicking...

Loved that Ipaq by the way, though it's way more powerful than I need in a handheld. It would pair up nicely with an Alubook.

[sao]

Quote: Larry McQueary wrote: I have recently acquired a ScanSnap fi-5110EOX... ...but again, no Mac-looking download...

They probably changed the download page since the time I posted, try the following link:

ScanSnap Manager for Macintosh
http://scansnap.fujitsu.com/jp/download/mac.html

.

[Craig R. Arko]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne Hexstar: Please give more details about the problems that you have experienced. I haven't heard of anyone else having such a problem. I have a 20 GB drive on my iBook and have had about 15 GB of files on it for years with no problem. The problems you apparently experienced are not intrinsic to OS X.

Troubleshooting specific issues should be done in a new thread in the appropriate help request forum, of course.

[CAlvarez]

Quote: But compare this to the Powerbook I'm keying right now.

The PowerBook vs. Wintel discussion is an interesting one. There's no question of the beauty of the PB (well, to most people anyway). The keyboard is simply the best on the planet, and I get to use/support a lot of notebooks. The sounds is very good, and the trackpad is also the best.

However, it falls flat on its face as far as resolution. A 17" screen is nice, but with such low resolution it's kind of a waste. My previous notebook had a 15.4" wide 1920x1400 display, which was fantastic. I hope Apple will do something like this soon.

It's also a bit annoying to have all the ports on the sides of the computer. I understand they had to do that so the screen could open while keeping the system very slim, but it's annoying. Rear ports are much nicer, and more useful for quick docking solutions.

I certainly love the extras like a lighted keyboard, automatic brightness settings, and other things I've never seen on a Wintel notebook.

[rubaiyat]

Interesting that you raised the issue of docking.

Apple seems to have totally given up on this excellent technology after having mishandled their first attempts at docking. They foolishly made the docks with a roof on them that made it impossible to use either the keyboard or screen of the portable. Also they soon encountered problems when the newer docking portables changed size and no longer fitted the docks.

PC users by contrast have excellent docking options that make them a very good option for workers shifting location.

[ArcticStones]

CAlvarez,

I have, with great interest, just read every post in this thread. A very worthwhile discussion with many thoughtful contributions!

May I ask one question? I would be very interested in seeing a list of applications that you have elected to run on your PowerBook, and any brief thoughts you may have on your choices. Perhaps quite worthwhile -- and not just for switchers...

Best regards,
ArcticStones

[CAlvarez]

Thanks for the positive comments.

I've got a lot of stuff on the machine, I think. I tend to use my computer for everything that I can.

MS Office 2004
QuickBooks (came with it, I use it for my one-man business)
Chicken of the VNC and MS Remote Desktop to support clients
Virtual PC so I can run PaperPort document management and Stamps.com shipping (no Mac alternatives)
Toast CD/DVD burning (unimpressed, would not buy it again)
Eudora (e-mail client, been using it for about 10 years on the PC, so it's a natural)
Firefox browser, better-featured than the built-in Safari
RBrowser Lite for FTP (not very powerful, but simple, and meets my needs fine)
PhotoShop (existing company license, but I would not pay for it if I had to)
Windows Media Player
Pocket Mac for sync with my Pocket PC
BBedit so I can edit scripts, conf files, etc
Fire multi-service instant messaging client (closest to Trillian which I loved)

Still trying to decide on good backup software, using Disk Utility for now.

As far as extensions and utilities...
Sidetrack to extend the pad functionality
MS Intellimouse and Intellikeys for the desktop mouse and KB
US Overdrive to let me swap keys on my left-hand trackball
iStumbler and MacStumbler for Wi-Fi sniffing, security, support
Disk inventory to keep a handle on files/disk usage
Keyboard Maestro hotkey/script utility, eliminates repetitive typing
SharePoints for simplified drive sharing with Windows machines