The realities of switching from Windows to Mac OS

[Craig R. Arko]

John; here's a thought, based on the result of a 15 second Google search:

Try a different vendor for your KVM switch. It looks like there's a few to choose from.


edit- I've seen my share of hardware that XP breaks as well, usually because of USB driver issues, or sometimes the lack of a digital signature on the driver. There is no such thing as 100% hardware compatibility, and USB devices are particularly touchy.

[RacerX]

Quote: Originally Posted by John Ashby For example, there was my recent post here about the KVM that won't work with the Mac because it needs the user to press scroll-lock twice to switch the active computer.

Wow... now that is the way to spin something. I read that thread and got the idea that it didn't work because the product wasn't designed to support Macs.

Quote: I put a CD-R in the drive, the mac said it didn't recognize it. I quick click on okay, and I'm stuck...no icon to drag to the trash to eject it, the eject option in the menu greyed out, and even logging out and back in didn't help.

The physical eject button works for me if my systems don't recognize a CD. If fact I had a client's system not recognize one of my CDs today... pressed the eject button and out it popped.

Quote: What's kind of interesting is that help requests like the KVM don't get much in the way of replies in this kind of forum... It seems like even die-hard Mac experts don't know much beyond the basics, because the Mac has nothing beyond basics in any practical way.

You were asking for help with a product that doesn't support Macs... what type of replies did you want? Even Mac users of average skill sets know to make sure something works with their system before putting money down.

You made a rookie mistake, did you really want everyone jumping in pointing it out. I mean basically you did the hardware equivalent of buying a Windows program and asking why it doesn't run on your Mac.

[John Ashby]

Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX Wow... now that is the way to spin something. I read that thread and got the idea that it didn't work because the product wasn't designed to support Macs.

The KVM is just a switch, all it has to do is intercept certain keystrokes and change which computer is selected. How can this *not* be Mac compatible unless the Mac is doing something unexpected?

Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX The physical eject button works for me if my systems don't recognize a CD. If fact I had a client's system not recognize one of my CDs today... pressed the eject button and out it popped.

So where exactly is the physical CD eject button on the current model of 12" powerbooks?

Quote: Originally Posted by RacerX You were asking for help with a product that doesn't support Macs... what type of replies did you want? Even Mac users of average skill sets know to make sure something works with their system before putting money down.

To what extent are you supposed to go to make sure it is Mac compatible? It says "supports all computers" on the package. They even make a PS/2 version that specifically mentions it works with Macs if you use a PS/2 -> USB adapter, and the PS/2 model also uses the scroll lock to swap.

So obviously you can't trust the packaging...do you spend hours searching websites, maybe even asking on forums like this? All that extra effort does contribute to the Mac being harder to use because of the extra work in researching. I know Mac hardware is more expensive, and I'm not complaining about that, but I notice the cheapest KVM in the link Craig provided is $90 + cables, and the one I got was $37 including cables. It's the same basic switch, why are you willing to pay more than 3 times the price?

Shortly after I bought the notebook, I also wanted to get a video input device for my notebook to use the LCD screen as a TV and use the whole system as a PVR. I went to the Mac store, and they suggested a $300 "PVR" unit, even though it uses the notebooks HD and CPU for storage and video processing. So what exactly am I getting for $300. When I commented on that, he suggested a $800 digital video camera with a passthrough. There are dozens of PC-only composite->USB adapters in the $50-100 price range. Why is it so much more for exactly the same device with Mac drivers?

-----

It's amusing that you didn't comment at all on my main reason for my post. Which is Apple deliberatly makes it a pain in the ass to do anything non-trivial with a Mac. Can I take that to mean you do agree with that?

[CAlvarez]

Quote: For example, there was my recent post here about the KVM that won't work with the Mac because it needs the user to press scroll-lock twice to switch the active computer.

Buy one that is Mac-compatible, or simply uses a button on the device. Also do note that some non-Mac computers have problems with some KVM devices too. I've got a Belkin (really, I need to remember not to buy anything from that junk brand) which simply won't work with Tyan Transport servers. Who should I blame for that one?

Quote: That is just so much simpler and easier to use than putting a lousy eject button on the drive, isn't it?

Um...you do realize that on a Wintel machine the eject button on the drive is still just a REQUEST to open, just like the one on an Apple...? The OS or an app can still refuse it. One thing the Mac does lack is the manual forced eject hole where you can stick in a paperclip (they used to have that). I'm guessing that's because Apple does go on the incorrect assumption that their OS is perfect, so you would never need to do something so crude.

Quote: It seems like even die-hard Mac experts don't know much beyond the basics, because the Mac has nothing beyond basics in any practical way.

I'm not going to argue that point, other than to note that you don't even know the basics: Don't buy incompatible hardware.

[CAlvarez]

Quote: So obviously you can't trust the packaging...do you spend hours searching websites, maybe even asking on forums like this?

No you can't, and yes, that's been my solution, to ask. It's a pain, I agree. Can you blame Apple? They didn't make it. Also you have to learn to read between the lines, unfortunately, because "works with any computer" is often used by Windows-centric people who don't know anything else exists.

The Mac takes a lot more effort to use. Mac users will claim the opposite, and that may be true for very basic out-of-the-box users. When you try to get advanced, and do a lot of things with a lot of software and hardware, it gets complicated.

I've recently switched, and you can see some of my posts here where I express frustration. I tried not to rant though, and stay on point. All computers are a compromise. I don't think a perfect one exists at any price. I mean, a Cray isn't real user-friendly, and the frindliest computer I've used, an Amiga, isn't very useful any more. It's all compromises, and if you didn't find the compromises acceptable on the Mac side, that's why there are choices out there.

[Craig R. Arko]

Since the thread doesn't seem to contain much in the way of Mac OS X experience content any more, it's going to the Coat Room now.

By the way, the method to eject a stuck removable disc (or disk) on a Macintosh is to reboot and hold down the mouse button (that would be the left mouse button, for those who have more than one ).

[RacerX]

Quote: Originally Posted by John Ashby So where exactly is the physical CD eject button on the current model of 12" powerbooks?

Okay...

Lift up your right hand, extend the index finger on that hand, move it to the upper most right corner of the keyboard... see the button there in the corner... press the button.

I haven't seen a new PowerBook in awhile, but I'm pretty sure Apple is still putting a sticker on new systems to let people know that that button is there.

Quote: It's amusing that you didn't comment at all on my main reason for my post. Which is Apple deliberatly makes it a pain in the ass to do anything non-trivial with a Mac. Can I take that to mean you do agree with that?

You can take it any way you want, but I would point out that your record on making assumptions hasn't been all that great so far. You might want to learn from that experience.

Just a thought.

Quote: Originally Posted by CAlvarez I've got a Belkin (really, I need to remember not to buy anything from that junk brand)....

I think everyone has gotten burned by Belkin at one time or another. It is to the point that I cringe every time I see a client with any of their products. They just don't have a good track record.

[roncross@cox.net]

Most people switch from windows to mac at home. I challenge everyone with a mac to switch from windows to mac at work!!!.

I have always used my G4 powerbook at home and I never used it to work. For the 1st time, I am exclusively using my mac at work on a windows network systems. After about 1 week, everything is working ok. I am using my DVI connector to plug into the large display that I have at work. While I am using the large CRT display, the lid on my powerbook is closed; I guess that running it this way is ok. The company that I work at has wireless service that I also use to connect to the network. In addition, I setup VPN so that I can login remotely. I am using a standard dell keyboard and its not that bad. The windows key on the dell is similar to the command key on an apple keyboard. I am also using my Kensington wireless mouse. My boss and I have ichat set up to communicate with one another while we are in the plant since he uses a powerbook too. All in all, this is a very positive experience.

The only thing that I don't like, but I can live with, is that I am force to use Entourage since outlook is the default here on the windows machine. I am not able to receive invites from people in outlook using ical. I can import events into ical, but the notes will not transfer. Entourage will not use my address book. How do I get entourage to use my address book? I think in the end, I think that I can use to Entourage.

Other than that, I am glad that I made the switch. What took me so long? I challenge every one who has a mac to go to work and ask their boss if they can work on their macs to be more productive. This is another way to get corporations to see the power and efficiency of a macintosh.

thx
RLC

[yellow]

Quote: Originally Posted by John Ashby It seems like even die-hard Mac experts don't know much beyond the basics, because the Mac has nothing beyond basics in any practical way.

I am quite offended by this.

[roncross@cox.net]

John Ashby, if you want to get rid of your powerbook, I will be glad to buy it from you for $500.00 assuming that it is still in a good shape. That way you only lose $1100.00 but gain your peace of mind back.

If you don't want to sell it for $500.00, you can always put it on ebay and see what you can get for it.

If it is still in the trial out period, you can take it back and get your money back minus the restocking fee.

If you are this dissatified with your mac, then you are probably better off in the windows worlds. Macs are not for everyone.


thx
RLC

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by John Ashby It's amusing that you didn't comment at all on my main reason for my post. Which is Apple deliberatly makes it a pain in the ass to do anything non-trivial with a Mac.

This is completely untrue.
Many things are different on Macs but usually for a good reason - e.g. to provide a better user experience for the majority of users. Apple is not deliberately making it harder to do whatever it was that you were referring to as "non-trivial".

I have no idea what the problem was with your KVM switch. But such things are used by an incredibly small percentage of users and so Apple may have decided (for example) to change the behaviour of the CapsLock key so that it improved its main function (shift lock) at the expense of incompatibility with some brands of KVM switch.
And the reason why some other brands of KVM switches are much more than the $37 you paid is perhaps that those other vendors put more R&D effort into perfecting their switch and making it compatible with more keyboards.

[Las_Vegas]

It just warms my cockles when a Windows user tries switching to the Mac platform and immediately start posting to all the Mac forums, "Why can't I do everything I did in Windows on a Mac in exactly the same fashion I did it in Windows?"

My answer? Because you're not using Windows! I've never expected Windows to do everything I can do on the Mac, and I've never been surprised.

Complaints about Apple's Resource Fork system is just silly. PC's had no capabilities even approaching the resource fork until Win98 pretty much copied it with the DLL files. Nowadays, Macs hardly even use them anymore, but instead use Resources for the program within the package... Hmmm... Just like Unix! PC users, I guess expect the "simplicity" of the Registry...

Any KVM maker that depends on a keyboard light signal that has never been used, is just asking for trouble. That Scroll Lock light, while it had a use on IBM Terminals, never was really implemented on a PC in DOS or Windows. Macs just got rid of it. Why would anyone expect it to be there? It's just stupid for a USB KVM to expect that specific signal to do it's switching, except that it would be an easy solution to a lazy engineer.

[chris_on_hints]

Quote: Originally Posted by John Ashby It seems like even die-hard Mac experts don't know much beyond the basics, because the Mac has nothing beyond basics in any practical way.

Wow.

I find the UNIX underlying MacOSX to be a very advanced piece of software:
- in terms of its stability (win XP is very nice for this too..)
- security (win XP is a joke in this category)
- easy to configure for beginners (well laid out system preferences and secure out-of-the-box)
- powerful advanced configurations (just edit a simple text file to configure windows file sharing, apache web server, printer sharing etc... even the 'client' version of OSX can be run 24/7 as a very powerful file/network/printer server)
- it is open-source, so that lots of geeks () around the world are actually contributing to it by testing and re-writing it. this gives a high rate of consumer confidence.

Ive been using OSX since 10.1, and have really enjoyed learning UNIX.

[chris_on_hints]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko Try a different vendor for your KVM switch

Or how about, dont use one at all?

By using VNC, you can do this with software. Install "OSXVNC" on the machine that you want to control (or a VNC server for linux / windows) and then run "OSx2X" on the mac with the keyboard and mouse.

As long as your machines are networked (B-wireless connection is fine) then you can control up to 4 other machines using the mouse and keyboard connected to your mac running osx2x.

Its a nice way to work... and no hardware required.

Check out the osx2x web site osx2x website for the download, and see their online help for a description on how to get it working.

[sao]

Quote: John Ashby wrote: What's kind of interesting is that help requests like the KVM don't get much in the way of replies in this kind of forum.

I'm very sorry if you didn't get the answer you expected to your post, but please consider that we are all volunteers with limited time, day jobs, etc. The people that I see coming again and again to help answer questions in the forums put in their own time and effort and do it completely out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm very grateful to them and amazed with the depth and quality of their answers. I've learned an enormous amount from them.

.

[CAlvarez]

Quote: Most people switch from windows to mac at home. I challenge everyone with a mac to switch from windows to mac at work!!!.

Why do you think I got my PowerBook? I'm an IP network (Cisco) and Windows server guy. I now use only my PowerBook to do my job. Of course, I don't have a boss to answer to really (not in detail anyway, as long as things work, I'm left alone). Nobody has particularly noticed that I'm using a Mac. I thought for sure whipping out a huge notebook with a big lighted Apple on the back of the screen would raise eyebrows at a meeting, but nobody has taken note. Of course, this means that nobody has had issues with the documents and mail/task/calendar items we all share. In other words, I co-exist seemlessly.

I'm planning to surreptitiously slip in a few old iMacs and see what happens when I put them on people's desks. I'll start with the least computer-savvy who probably won't even notice it's that different.

[Anticipat3]

I gotta award you a few cajone points here, CAlvarez. I worked with a guy about a year ago at a financial company who was supposed to be the "Cisco Expert" on networking, and he's been a huge problem with the company's IT infastructure from the day I got there until the day I quit. Why? Because he simply would NOT look into anything he wasn't familiar with. Know what he said to me when I brought my snazzy powerbook to work? "You can't get company email with that, it doesn't have outlook. How do you call a machine with no PS2 ports or Serial ports full featured?" and other obviously uninformed garbage. The guy insisted on running the oldest, strangest VPN software I've ever seen, and insisted on the most senseless ideas I've ever heard (We don't need another Active Directory server, we'll just use the VPN tunnel to the other office and use theirs... mind you, both offices had nothing faster than a T1 for about 75 employees each).

Cheers to you for living on the edge, and for having the guts to try something different that might work out better. That is, after all, the only way to know!

[CAlvarez]

I've had to deal with a few of those, one on a current project. "We don't need an expensive Cisco router, I bought a used computer for $60 and we'll just run free firewall software on it...Cisco commands are too hard to learn..."

Of course, I'm getting a little ribbing from a few people now since my PB now needs to have the OS reinstalled and I've only had it for a few weeks...

[Anticipat3]

Yep... then a part craps out in the cheapo PC, the whole company network goes down, and your firewall is a pants-down sort of operation... wow, that was worth not having to learn anything... or not.

Just make sure they're around to see what reinstalling the OS is like with OSX, it'll be sure to make their jaws drop . What, full resolution and driver support for even bluetooth input devices when running the OS installer? You betcha.

Anyways, enjoy, and don't let it get you down that it'll take you a few tries to get as comfortable and functional on your new powerbook as you were on your PC... once you figure out "how you like it" you'll be the one laughing.

[CAlvarez]

It was a no-brainer to get the owner to figure out the difference between a cobbled-up firewall and a purpose-built firewall. It was then that she layed down the law and said I have the final authority on EVERYTHING. Makes it easy. Too many chiefs makes for a pain in the butt.

It's fun living in a household with a devout Mac-hater, and switching completely to Mac OS. The guys at the Apple store already know us, and affectionately call her my "sarcastic sidekick." She was impressed with the ease and cleanliness of the OS reinstall, though it should be noted that on GOOD hardware, the same is usually true with Windows XP. Apple has the advantage because they control the hardware, but if you buy only what is on the MS compatibility list (huge), then you typically have the same easy experience.

The UI is what I really like. She now has loaded skins on XP to mimic the OS X UI, and it works very well. But while it looks like OS X, the functionality isn't as nice. It should be possible to remap keys and such to nearly function like OS X, but that's a lot of trouble to avoid actually buying a Mac.