Go Back   The macosxhints Forums > OS X Help Requests > System



Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2013, 08:08 PM   #1
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Zfs

Most of us all wish Apple had kept the Change to ZFS that was supposed to be in Snow.

In corresponding in a thread about file or at least directory corruption the topic of ZFS came up.

I was wondering what those using it have found?
Any issues
Which Implementation
Slower, Faster
Does it make sense to use with Back up drives, seemed like a reasonable use case?
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #2
fracai
MVP
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,086
I'm using it on a FreeNAS machine. I love it. Snapshots are awesome and it has made several backup tasks much simpler. I'm also back using TimeMachine, with the backups hosted on AFP shares from the ZFS volume.

I've looked at the Zevo release, but haven't used it at all.

The NAS that I built was to replace a Drobo, so in that sense it's an order of magnitude faster in serving data and I trust it many orders more.

ZFS makes less sense for single drives, but as a backup of another drive, you'd be able to run a replication task fairly quickly. I haven't started this yet, but it's part of my plan to backup the NAS data.


Other thoughts: plan ahead when building your array, compression is a nice feature, and stay the hell away from deduplication
__________________
i am jack's amusing sig file
fracai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #3
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Ty

Thank you. I'm macbook Pros so unless I go the sled (dvd swap out route) all single drives. Going to try some of my back up drives for start. Going to start with the Zevo release I think.

Well Zevo release required registration which fine but I never got my confirmation email so I ran with the maczfs release for now. Most of the commands had to be issued from sudo, not unexpected.

Also I only wanted to use one my partitions on my drive but I did not the command to address the disk partially.

Last edited by anthlover; 01-01-2013 at 10:33 PM.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #4
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Thank you. I'm macbook Pros so unless I go the sled (dvd swap out route) all single drives. Going to try some of my back up drives for start. Going to start with the Zevo release I think.

Well Zevo release required registration which fine but I never got my confirmation email so I ran with the maczfs release for now. Most of the commands had to be issued from sudo, not unexpected.

Also I only wanted to use one my partitions on my drive but I did not the command to address the disk partially. Main command was diskutil partitiondisk /dev/disk2 GPTFormat ZFS %noformat% 100%

Of course the back up will not be bootable, presume it would be if I restored from it to hfs+ volume.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:16 PM   #5
fracai
MVP
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,086
I'm not sure about the bootability if you restore to an HFS+ volume. I doubt ZFS will retain all the metadata that HFS+ wants to see, but then again maybe it will.

Regarding MacZFS and Zevo, the Zevo release supports a much more recent version of ZFS so keep in mind that while you should be able to upgrade a volume from a lower version to higher, you can't go backwards. So you should be able to move to Zevo when you get the activation email, but for now you're missing out on features. You may or may not actually miss out on them.

Single volumes can still be useful. I know you can do things like storing redundancy info on single volumes, though I have no experience here.

The main reason I was interested in ZFS is that it looked to me like the best option for replacing my Drobo. While mixing volumes of different sizes limits each volume's contribution to the size of the smallest drive, you can still gain size by increasing the size of the individual drives. Plus, it let me get dual disk redundancy.

Oh, you can avoid the sudo usage if you delegate permissions. Though, you should think about which users deserve which permissions.
__________________
i am jack's amusing sig file
fracai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #6
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Well first back up too a ZFS volume took quite a long time. 5.5 Hours for 320GB versus an average of around 3 hours in the past. I did not pause crash plan as I usually do and I used a bit older 750GB 3.5 Inch HD, rather then the 1TB (both 7200 rpm). Do not have specs and model numbers handy.

I was sort of bummed I could not use a partition rather then the whole drive, but that was probably my command line disk utility ignorance.

I think I will have to re-register for Zevos the mail authorization never came. No problem starting over. I will also have to look over how to uninstall maczfs.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #7
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
gmail spammed greenbytes provider

gmail spammed greenbytes provider ehub31.webhostinghub.com

I had previously set gmail to show the spam, not sure how it got to hide.

Ugg.

Now to uninstall macbytes and install Zevo
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 07:52 PM   #8
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Seems maczfs also tanked by system a bit more later...
They were KPs. Did not seem much in them. Could post if interested. Seems to be related to the spools. The first time I jostled the FW cable. The second time I ran a command listing the spools when the drive was not online, not connected.

I found on the maczfs web site removal instructions and followed them, running some commands and then rebooting and then removing all the pieces strewn in the file system. Zevo's installer claims to be able to replace any prior zfs instals with their own. They also have a proper uninstaller for Zevo.

I choose to do it by hand I wanted it 100 percent gone.

Onto Zevo

Last edited by anthlover; 01-02-2013 at 08:26 PM.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 09:07 PM   #9
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
Ran the Zevo installer. Surprised to find there was 1.1.1 update to the fresh 1.1. install.

Took a few attempts to get disk until to wipe the maczfs created format.

Created the Zevo Zfs pool. Running a new backup to the zevo drive.

CCC of course warns that the clone will not be bootable because ZFS is not bootable on the mac. That said it did confirm what I and fracai thought, restoring the ZFS clone to HFS+ volume would be bootable.

Last edited by anthlover; 01-02-2013 at 10:03 PM.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:07 AM   #10
SirDice
MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,119
I have no experience with ZFS on Mac. I have been using it for quite some time on FreeBSD.

One thing you need to know about ZFS is that it's quite hungry for memory. It needs at least 2GB for small filesystems. Most have 8GB or even more. Not sure if maczfs is 32 bit or 64 bit but the 32 bit needs quite a lot of tweaking and tuning to get any kind of performance. It's also advized to add a couple of SSDs to the mix. You'll want them for ZIL (basically a write-cache) and ARC (read cache). The ZIL should be mirrored because if it dies you will lose data.
SirDice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:57 AM   #11
anthlover
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,484
I tried Vevo 2010 Macbook Pro, 8GB of Ram, SSD OCZ Vertex 4 512GB Boot Volume, an external 750GB 3.5 inch drive as the only spool. Back up worked via CCC which I know is Compatible with Zevo.

Something in the system did not want to let go of the Zpool after the back up when I wanted to unmount the drive, Perhaps spotlight, since Zevo got that working, probably disable that if it is an option.

Backup time was very slow again over 7 hours with the same 300+ GB data set that took 5.5 hours the first time. I had Crashplan paused this time.

?? Is Zevo doing data integrity checking of the volume or something? At this point it does not feel viable to me, in my use case.
anthlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:52 AM   #12
fracai
MVP
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,086
ZFS does checksumming of all the data that is read and written, so that's one bottleneck.

You should be able to use a partition for ZFS, just specify the partition instead of the device when creating the pool. I think it would be something like: /dev/disk2s2 instead of /dev/disk2. Use "df" or "hdiutil list" to see what they're called.
__________________
i am jack's amusing sig file
fracai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 04:08 AM   #13
agentx
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 4,115
I have been using ZEVO for some of my drives attached to my Macs.
Overall a success really. I certainly have a bit more piece of mind but they are not as quick as native HFS as the way the kernel handles the VFS (virtual file system) on Macs and due to checksumming etc.

I do not know all the in/outs but i know the developer of ZEVO hates the Mac's FS handling and memory manager a lot !
He has tried in vain to get AFP file sharing working with Zevo ZFS which is a sticking point.

It of course is not a replacement for full ZFS support from other vendors, more of a step in right direction. Shame it will NEVER be adopted by Apple as Oracle are involved. Even though the whole of iCloud mail system is Oracle messaging Server ;-)

I would still prefer this ZFS over HFS+ especially as drives and datasets are getting larger. Overall TBH we will be moving away/moved from traditional DAS (direct attached storage) HFS+ to SAN ( Storage Area Network) or Storage Appliances. More than likely will be phasing out Mac Servers at most sites as well....but thats another story.

RAID5 is not an attractive option with large drives so system admins have been moving to different technologies over last few years.

Last edited by agentx; 01-11-2013 at 04:10 AM.
agentx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site design © IDG Consumer & SMB; individuals retain copyright of their postings
but consent to the possible use of their material in other areas of IDG Consumer & SMB.