I need a Bootable DVD

tdeprato · 08-09-2003, 03:46 AM

Through various testing etc I have discovered that the main issue with my new OSX 10.2.3 Server is that I cannot install it on a clean G4 machine. The old OSX server I have running on a g3 and it was all installed with the 10.2 bootable cd. However, when we bought the g4 it cames with osx client 10.2.3 on a bootable DVD.

As many of you know 10.2 server on a bootable cd will not install overtop a 10.2.3 client. So MAC japan sent us a 10.2.3 cd rom -which is not bootable.

I need a 10.2.3- 10.2.6 bootable OSX Server DVD..where can I get it? Can anyone help me.......Apple Japan is unresponsive and Apple USA is not being responsive. Any ideas????

Tony

anthlover · 08-09-2003, 08:17 AM

I have not played with X Server but have ?s and Suggestions:

1) Is there no Options button like on a Non Server X Install for Doing an Archive and Install?

2) Can we assume that if you were able to back up your Data you could do a regular format Install with any of your Bootable Install Server CD/DVDs.

3) *If you have a FireWire Drive. Why not Create a Bootable System on it via Either Regular OSX10.2 or Server. Then using Roxio or Apple Disk Copy Create Disk Images of 1 or more of the installers. *This should allow you to Boot off of the Firewire Drive and Run as many Different Installers as you need to.

Good Luck.

tdeprato · 08-09-2003, 09:37 AM

The first two are a no.

The new g4's only boot from bootable dvd's - it seems to be an unanswered topic on apple support.

But the 3rd option...thats a good one. Too bad I have to resort to microsoft tactics. I thought this was apple. We bought 10.2 server 6 months ago!!! and we cannot install it on a new g4 because we cannot get a DVD...how bad is that.

I am not married to Micro or Mac , I try to choose the best tool for the job.....I will never buy Mac again after this experience. Too bad no one at Mac read OSXHINTS!! There is so much here.

Thanks I have a firewire external I will give it a shot!!!

Tony

anthlover · 08-09-2003, 12:32 PM

Good Luck with work around... Sorry you were given grief. I find that when I get a support represenative on the Phone, at any Company (be it Apple or Dell or even a non compuer company) you somtimes have to ask for a supervisor or simply call back and get someone else on the phone, depending on the sitution. It is hard for a copmany to have 100 percent good Staff. But the higher the precentage the happier the customers and hopefully the better the company does.

I had a simillar issue with OS9 (about 11 months ago) and I called Apple they were honorable about it. Both replacing what was not working and then subsquently refunding money. Basically to tell the shortest version of the story I was looking for Appropriate version of OS9 that was bootable on relatively new system, a Tibook 867 when it first came out...

I was still in Pre Jaguar thought mode Create 1 Parition for 9, one for OSX and 1 for Applications. This became unecessary with Archive and Install Feature. And the Problem as many know was that the Classic Installer Assumes/Insists that X and 9 live on the same volume...

So I was trying to buy a full Retail version of 9.22 that would work. Make a long story short Apple as they are retiring booting in 9 as an option soon did not provide the tools do such on their newer systems. And of course now more and more of the systems are X only with Classic.

DeltaMac · 08-09-2003, 01:37 PM

Where did you hear the inaccurate info that your system will not boot with a bootable CD? Some of the Macs now come with bootable DVD restore disks, but your system will still boot from either a CD or DVD. There's no option with a Full Install CD to get a bootable DVD for a System installer, they all come on CD, (but the system ships with a DVD bootable restore disk, these are not available separately that I am aware) So the 10.2.3 (Server?) that you received from AppleJapan must be an upgrade CD (which might not be bootable) and not an install set (which is on 2 CDs) Make sure that you are using disk 1 as disk 2 may not be bootable.

reeserv · 08-09-2003, 05:07 PM

I agree with DeltaMac, the server software only comes on a CD, Version 10.2.3. You have to download the Combo update or the regular update to get 10.2.6. Here is the url for the combo update.http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120217

DeltaMac · 08-09-2003, 05:16 PM

This isn't quite the right idea. tdeprato seems to have the idea that his system will not boot with a CD (which it certainly will) when it comes with restore software on DVD. This does not mean that you don't have the choice to boot with a bootable CD. Just trying to point him in the right direction to try to boot with the install CD which he has already. (updating to 10.2.6 is a good plan, too)

Mikey-San · 08-09-2003, 06:29 PM

Indeed, when OS X 10.3 is released, do you really think they're going to sell a CD version and a separate DVD version? How many people do you think will not read the box, open it, realize they don't have a DVD drive at all, and then try to return the software (being told, then, that opened software isn't returnable)? A lot.

Your machine can boot from CD. Perhaps not /that/ CD, for whatever reason, but it can from others. Apple's service diagnostics discs are CDs, not DVDs, and current ones boot your system, for example.

reeserv · 08-09-2003, 07:06 PM

What if you connect one machine to the other using a Firewire cable and start one on Target Disk mode, then load your software that way.

You can connect your computer to another computer using a FireWire cable, so that your computer appears as a FireWire hard disk on the other computer. This is called "Target Disk Mode."

When you use this mode, you see a disk icon for each partition of your computer's hard disk on the desktop of the other computer. You also see an icon for any CD or DVD discs in your computer.

Shut down your computer and leave the other computer on. Connect the two computers using a FireWire cable with a standard 6-pin connector on each end. Start up your computer while holding down the T key.

When you finish, eject the disk icons for your computer from the other computer. Then shut down your computer and disconnect the FireWire cable.

tdeprato · 08-09-2003, 10:26 PM

According to Apple Japan, my 10.2 Server full version cd, cannot boot in a DVD g4 machine. And further more the 10.2 server is not allowed to install o ver the top of the 10.2.3 software which came with the box.

So...

If you format the drive- which I did . And insert the 100% bootable cd - which does boot in the g3 server, our office I Mac, etc - then nothing happens.... I know all of the key controls to press for boot options.

If you take the 10.2.3 server cd apple sent - and I agree it is only an upgrade - it will boot in the I Mac I have, old g3 I Mac, G3 tower, etc. Go figure- just not the G4.

So I had one option...start the Mac...insert the upgrade and run it from the desktop. The first few times the CD Upgrade would not work at all! So I had a theory.

Next,

I examined the box-

I look at all the drives and there jumpers and found that on hardware install- someone set the harddrive ID to 1 and the DVD Rom id to 1. I set the jumpers so they were not in conflict and the DVD drive then allowed me to install server 10.2.3 from the desktop. But still I cannot boot into anything except the DVD disks apple send me.

This is all FYI and I hope it is just my bad luck.

Tony

saint.duo · 08-09-2003, 11:59 PM

You either need a 10.2.3 Full install bootable OS X server CD, or if it exists, a 10.2.4 one, to boot a brand new FireWire 800 G4. This is because systems lower than 10.2.3 do not support that machine.

anthlover · 08-10-2003, 11:33 AM

RE: I believe the Firewire trick and Disk images is still the best temporary solution.

In the meantime you can try to gain the boot CD/DVDs you need for specefic systems.

I think to be honest some of the posters (perhaps myself included) were confused as to what exact limitations you ran into.

1) That is a list of exact systems that could be not booted from 10.2 Server
2) List of Exact systems that Could not be downgraded e.g. from 10.23 to 10.22

Keep in mind that if you are still having problems beyond booting and installing you can also use carbon copy cloner to move images onto systems (this is particaularly helpful if you have installed or set things up in a particularly time consuming manner).

This would not overcome limitations e.g. a system whoose minimum was 10.23 regular or Server would not function under 10.2. That said with the FireWire Drive you can easily build a system or server at any OS version e.g. 10.26. Then boot from the Firewire drive and run what ever images or clone if appropriate.

On CCC site below there is also a lot of great infomration about creating images for distribution or netbooting or netimaging etc.

http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html

Good Luck.

Craig R. Arko · 08-12-2003, 08:35 AM

Here's Apple's instructions for doing the OS X Server install on a G4 (FW800). First you install the OS X client from the CD or DVD that came with it, to get the correct drivers loaded. Then boot from the HD and install the server package "MacOSXServerInstall.mpkg" from the server install CD.

They say you need the 10.2.3 Server CD for this to work, as has been mentioned above.

These machines were never sold as servers, and that's why there isn't a Server CD which supports them directly.

pink · 08-12-2003, 10:08 AM

There was a hint on that problem earlier
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...30710112355333
I did the installation practically the same way and can confirm that this works.

cheers, pink

08-09-2003, 03:46 AM	#1
tdeprato Triple-A Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 213	I need a Bootable DVD Through various testing etc I have discovered that the main issue with my new OSX 10.2.3 Server is that I cannot install it on a clean G4 machine. The old OSX server I have running on a g3 and it was all installed with the 10.2 bootable cd. However, when we bought the g4 it cames with osx client 10.2.3 on a bootable DVD. As many of you know 10.2 server on a bootable cd will not install overtop a 10.2.3 client. So MAC japan sent us a 10.2.3 cd rom -which is not bootable. I need a 10.2.3- 10.2.6 bootable OSX Server DVD..where can I get it? Can anyone help me.......Apple Japan is unresponsive and Apple USA is not being responsive. Any ideas???? Tony

08-09-2003, 08:17 AM	#2
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	I have not played with X Server but have ?s and Suggestions: I have not played with X Server but have ?s and Suggestions: 1) Is there no Options button like on a Non Server X Install for Doing an Archive and Install? 2) Can we assume that if you were able to back up your Data you could do a regular format Install with any of your Bootable Install Server CD/DVDs. 3) If you have a FireWire Drive. Why not Create a Bootable System on it via Either Regular OSX10.2 or Server. Then using Roxio or Apple Disk Copy Create Disk Images of 1 or more of the installers. This should allow you to Boot off of the Firewire Drive and Run as many Different Installers as you need to. Good Luck. Last edited by anthlover; 08-09-2003 at 12:32 PM.

08-09-2003, 09:37 AM	#3
tdeprato Triple-A Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 213	3rd option The first two are a no. The new g4's only boot from bootable dvd's - it seems to be an unanswered topic on apple support. But the 3rd option...thats a good one. Too bad I have to resort to microsoft tactics. I thought this was apple. We bought 10.2 server 6 months ago!!! and we cannot install it on a new g4 because we cannot get a DVD...how bad is that. I am not married to Micro or Mac , I try to choose the best tool for the job.....I will never buy Mac again after this experience. Too bad no one at Mac read OSXHINTS!! There is so much here. Thanks I have a firewire external I will give it a shot!!! Tony

08-09-2003, 12:32 PM	#4
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Good Luck with work around... Good Luck with work around... Sorry you were given grief. I find that when I get a support represenative on the Phone, at any Company (be it Apple or Dell or even a non compuer company) you somtimes have to ask for a supervisor or simply call back and get someone else on the phone, depending on the sitution. It is hard for a copmany to have 100 percent good Staff. But the higher the precentage the happier the customers and hopefully the better the company does. I had a simillar issue with OS9 (about 11 months ago) and I called Apple they were honorable about it. Both replacing what was not working and then subsquently refunding money. Basically to tell the shortest version of the story I was looking for Appropriate version of OS9 that was bootable on relatively new system, a Tibook 867 when it first came out... I was still in Pre Jaguar thought mode Create 1 Parition for 9, one for OSX and 1 for Applications. This became unecessary with Archive and Install Feature. And the Problem as many know was that the Classic Installer Assumes/Insists that X and 9 live on the same volume... So I was trying to buy a full Retail version of 9.22 that would work. Make a long story short Apple as they are retiring booting in 9 as an option soon did not provide the tools do such on their newer systems. And of course now more and more of the systems are X only with Classic.

08-09-2003, 05:07 PM	#6
reeserv Major Leaguer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saint Petersburg, FL Posts: 399	I agree with DeltaMac, the server software only comes on a CD, Version 10.2.3. You have to download the Combo update or the regular update to get 10.2.6. Here is the url for the combo update.http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120217 __________________ reeserv

08-09-2003, 01:37 PM	#5
DeltaMac League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,531	Where did you hear the inaccurate info that your system will not boot with a bootable CD? Some of the Macs now come with bootable DVD restore disks, but your system will still boot from either a CD or DVD. There's no option with a Full Install CD to get a bootable DVD for a System installer, they all come on CD, (but the system ships with a DVD bootable restore disk, these are not available separately that I am aware) So the 10.2.3 (Server?) that you received from AppleJapan must be an upgrade CD (which might not be bootable) and not an install set (which is on 2 CDs) Make sure that you are using disk 1 as disk 2 may not be bootable.

08-09-2003, 05:16 PM	#7
DeltaMac League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,531	This isn't quite the right idea. tdeprato seems to have the idea that his system will not boot with a CD (which it certainly will) when it comes with restore software on DVD. This does not mean that you don't have the choice to boot with a bootable CD. Just trying to point him in the right direction to try to boot with the install CD which he has already. (updating to 10.2.6 is a good plan, too)

08-09-2003, 06:29 PM	#8
Mikey-San Hall of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,541	Indeed, when OS X 10.3 is released, do you really think they're going to sell a CD version and a separate DVD version? How many people do you think will not read the box, open it, realize they don't have a DVD drive at all, and then try to return the software (being told, then, that opened software isn't returnable)? A lot. Your machine can boot from CD. Perhaps not /that/ CD, for whatever reason, but it can from others. Apple's service diagnostics discs are CDs, not DVDs, and current ones boot your system, for example.

08-09-2003, 07:06 PM	#9
reeserv Major Leaguer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saint Petersburg, FL Posts: 399	What if you connect one machine to the other using a Firewire cable and start one on Target Disk mode, then load your software that way. You can connect your computer to another computer using a FireWire cable, so that your computer appears as a FireWire hard disk on the other computer. This is called "Target Disk Mode." When you use this mode, you see a disk icon for each partition of your computer's hard disk on the desktop of the other computer. You also see an icon for any CD or DVD discs in your computer. Shut down your computer and leave the other computer on. Connect the two computers using a FireWire cable with a standard 6-pin connector on each end. Start up your computer while holding down the T key. When you finish, eject the disk icons for your computer from the other computer. Then shut down your computer and disconnect the FireWire cable. __________________ reeserv

08-09-2003, 10:26 PM	#10
tdeprato Triple-A Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 213	Thank you all - Bootabla CD History According to Apple Japan, my 10.2 Server full version cd, cannot boot in a DVD g4 machine. And further more the 10.2 server is not allowed to install o ver the top of the 10.2.3 software which came with the box. So... If you format the drive- which I did . And insert the 100% bootable cd - which does boot in the g3 server, our office I Mac, etc - then nothing happens.... I know all of the key controls to press for boot options. If you take the 10.2.3 server cd apple sent - and I agree it is only an upgrade - it will boot in the I Mac I have, old g3 I Mac, G3 tower, etc. Go figure- just not the G4. So I had one option...start the Mac...insert the upgrade and run it from the desktop. The first few times the CD Upgrade would not work at all! So I had a theory. Next, I examined the box- I look at all the drives and there jumpers and found that on hardware install- someone set the harddrive ID to 1 and the DVD Rom id to 1. I set the jumpers so they were not in conflict and the DVD drive then allowed me to install server 10.2.3 from the desktop. But still I cannot boot into anything except the DVD disks apple send me. This is all FYI and I hope it is just my bad luck. Tony

08-09-2003, 11:59 PM	#11
saint.duo MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,084	You either need a 10.2.3 Full install bootable OS X server CD, or if it exists, a 10.2.4 one, to boot a brand new FireWire 800 G4. This is because systems lower than 10.2.3 do not support that machine.

08-10-2003, 11:33 AM	#12
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	I believe the Firewire trick and Disk images RE: I believe the Firewire trick and Disk images is still the best temporary solution. In the meantime you can try to gain the boot CD/DVDs you need for specefic systems. I think to be honest some of the posters (perhaps myself included) were confused as to what exact limitations you ran into. 1) That is a list of exact systems that could be not booted from 10.2 Server 2) List of Exact systems that Could not be downgraded e.g. from 10.23 to 10.22 Keep in mind that if you are still having problems beyond booting and installing you can also use carbon copy cloner to move images onto systems (this is particaularly helpful if you have installed or set things up in a particularly time consuming manner). This would not overcome limitations e.g. a system whoose minimum was 10.23 regular or Server would not function under 10.2. That said with the FireWire Drive you can easily build a system or server at any OS version e.g. 10.26. Then boot from the Firewire drive and run what ever images or clone if appropriate. On CCC site below there is also a lot of great infomration about creating images for distribution or netbooting or netimaging etc. http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html Good Luck.

08-12-2003, 08:35 AM	#13
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Here's Apple's instructions for doing the OS X Server install on a G4 (FW800). First you install the OS X client from the CD or DVD that came with it, to get the correct drivers loaded. Then boot from the HD and install the server package "MacOSXServerInstall.mpkg" from the server install CD. They say you need the 10.2.3 Server CD for this to work, as has been mentioned above. These machines were never sold as servers, and that's why there isn't a Server CD which supports them directly.

08-12-2003, 10:08 AM	#14
pink Major Leaguer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 441	There was a hint on that problem earlier http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...30710112355333 I did the installation practically the same way and can confirm that this works. cheers, pink __________________ "And what have we got in here ? - Ahh, things.." (Louis (2), inspecting kitchen cupboards.)