Confirming a Potential Lion Bug

[NaOH]

As documented in this hint from the main site, we've had the ability since 10.5 to do the following:

Quote: Originally Posted by The Main Hints Site: Create Application-Specific Sidebar Items From the Open or Save dialog in any application, enter a term in the Spotlight search field. If desired, use the plus (+) sign button to add criteria to your search (the Kind field can be very helpful here for narrowing the search results). When you click the Save button, name this Smart Folder and click the checkbox marked 'Display Smart Folder For This Application Only.' From now on, you'll see your saved search in the sidebar of the Open and Save dialog within that application. For my tastes at least, the added bonus of these sidebar Smart Folders is that they are not displayed in the sidebar of Finder windows.

Since upgrading to 10.7, this feature has not worked for me. My system retains the application-specific sidebar items I had under 10.6, but pressing the Save button under 10.7 fails silently. I created a new user account and the problem persisted there as well.

Could someone please try using this feature on a 10.7 system. I'd like to confirm it's a 10.7 issue before I file a report with Apple, so I'd simply like to confirm it's not an isolated issue on my machine. Of course, if there are other steps to take to resolve this, I'd try those, too.

[mnewman]

I tried it with Graphic Converter 6.7.4. I saved a search for 'vanda' as "Vanda". It shows up as a saved search in Graphic Converter Open dialog boxes.

I tried it with Graphic Converter 7.5 and it silently fails as you describe.

I tried it with Text Edit 1.7 and it fails.

Is it possible that it only works with Carbon applications?

[NaOH]

Interesting observation there. Putting that to test, I see the functionality does work in Excel and PowerPoint 2011 (I don't have Word installed) and in InDesign and Illustrator in CS 5.5. It didn't work in Photoshop or Acrobat Pro. I don't know if it's a Carbon issue—I thought that was no longer present in 10.7, but I could be wrong—but there must be something in common among the applications where the feature works and those where it doesn't.

Testing applications around my system now, none of these show the feature working:

• Preview
• TextEdit
• Console
• Terminal
• Address Book
• iTunes (10.5.1)
• QuickTime Player
• QuickTime Player 7
• Safari (5.1.2)
• iChat
• Pages
• Keynote
• Numbers
• OmniOutliner
• VLC 1.0.5
• MarkdownNote 1.1.1
• iCab
• Fission
• Movist
• XLD (20111211)

The only other application besides the ones listed up above where I've found the feature works is TextWrangler 3.5.3. I have no clue what Excel, PowerPoint, InDesign, Illustrator, and TextWrangler have in common.

Possibly unrelated, but I'll note it anyway: I used the same search criteria when using the Spotlight field in the Open Dialog of the applications listed above. Many applications failed to show any results while others seemed complete. Just in case, I'll rebuild the Spotlight Index.

[ganbustein]

It also works in BBEdit. (That's to be expected, given that it works in TextWrangler.)

Application-specific saved searches are stored in the application's preference file, under the "NSNavPanelAppSmartFolders" key. For example:

defaults read com.barebones.bbedit NSNavPanelAppSmartFolders

So it shouldn't be a permissions problem. If the app can write to its preference file, it can save an application-specific smart search.

It also shouldn't be a function of compiler version (that is, "old" versus "new" programs). QuickTime Player 7 was created 4/09/2009.

It's also not a conflict with Versions. It doesn't work in AppleScript Editor (which does not support Versions or AutoOpen) nor in Pages (which does).

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by NaOH I have no clue what Excel, PowerPoint, InDesign, Illustrator, and TextWrangler have in common.

Maybe that they are Carbon rather than Cocoa apps?

[NaOH]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne Maybe that they are Carbon rather than Cocoa apps?

Is there a way for us to determine if they are Carbon?

Edit: Is iTunes a Carbon application or did it recently change? I ask because this feature doesn't work in iTunes.

[mnewman]

One way to tell is that with Cocoa apps you can manipulate UI elements while an application's window is in the background by holding down the Command key.

[NaOH]

Quote: Originally Posted by mnewman One way to tell is that with Cocoa apps you can manipulate UI elements while an application's window is in the background by holding down the Command key.

I just Command-Clicked the title bar of a background Excel window and dragged it around. But if you mean specific UI elements like toolbar buttons, then Excel wouldn't allow Command-Clicks when in the background to work. The application simply came to the front. The same was true with TextWrangler.

If this is a Cocoa vs. Carbon issue, let's take this back to my original goal: Do we consider this a bug? It seems to me like one since the feature is presented in all Open/Save dialogs, but I'd rather hear from others since I don't have a good sense of what may be a bug rather than a backward-compatible design in a system-level feature like Open/Save dialogs.

[mnewman]

I think the window (and title bar) are owned by the Window Manager (?) while the specific UI elements are owned by the application itself. So, dragging a window by the title bar won't accomplish the Carbon-Cocoa test.

I think it's a bug. It's a nice feature. Why leave it out for Cocoa applications?

[benwiggy]

Yep, definitely a bug. I would report it.

I can confirm it here on Safari 5.1.2 running Lion 10.7.2, and other apps as above.

[ganbustein]

Quote: Originally Posted by NaOH Is there a way for us to determine if they are Carbon? Edit: Is iTunes a Carbon application or did it recently change? I ask because this feature doesn't work in iTunes.

app=/Applications/appname.app # or wherever the application is located
defaults read "${app}"/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass

If you get an error ("The domain/default pair ... does not exist"), then it's not Cocoa. If you get a non-error result, it's Cocoa.

Technically, all Cocoa apps are also Carbon, because Cocoa itself uses Carbon, so the distinction is not Cocoa vs. Carbon so much as Cocoa+Carbon vs. Carbon-only.


So far as I know, iTunes has always been Cocoa. The big change is that Finder recently (sometime between Tiger and Snow Leopard) switched from Carbon-only to Cocoa.

defaults read /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass
ITNSApplication
defaults read /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass
TApplication
defaults read /Applications/_User\ Applications_/BBEdit.app/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass
2011-12-19 16:40:05.653 defaults[3882:707]
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/_User Applications_/BBEdit.app/Contents/Info, NSPrincipalClass) does not exist


Edit: Tiger's version of iTunes turns out to be non-Cocoa.

[mnewman]

^Thanks


bleach:applications mnewman$ defaults read /Applications/GraphicConverter.app/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass
2011-12-20 08:34:34.907 defaults[81285:707]
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/GraphicConverter.app/Contents/Info, NSPrincipalClass) does not exist

bleach:applications mnewman$ defaults read /Applications/GraphicConverter7.app/Contents/Info NSPrincipalClass
NSApplication