Generic OS X Troubleshooting List

petey · 07-30-2003, 04:09 PM

in another thread, a poster was having mysterious trouble with applications quitting, and was wondering if he should just reinstall the system. so i tried putting together a list of generalized troubleshooting steps in the order i would proceed.

so if you are seeing a recurring problem that has no easy solution, what would you do?

am i missing anything? would others do things differently, or in a different order?

- repair permissions.
- check the filesystem.
- disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it.
- create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there.
- check that there are no system StartupItems in /Library/StartupItems/.
- unplug all USB, Firewire, and 3rd Party PCI cards.
- reinstall the combo updater.
- check the hard drive for bad blocks.
- take out 3rd party RAM.
- run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD.
- reinstall the system from scratch.
- send the machine back to Apple.

djn1 · 07-30-2003, 04:12 PM

Good list, but I'd include tracking down and removing any relevant plists if it's an app specific problem. I realise you can probably isolate this with your fourth step - perhaps this should be considered an alternative.

tlarkin · 07-30-2003, 06:48 PM

Thats a pretty good list. I could maybe only add:

1)check for OS/firmware/driver updates
2)reset firmware (zap pram)

I would troubleshoot software first (like fix permissions, run fsck, diskwarrior) then try componet isolation (remove 3rd party ram/devices). that is of course if the system actually powers on and boots. If you get no POST then I would try to troubleshoot hardware first.

I thought about compiling a basic troubleshooting list I could just point to people online as well. Only thing is the list would change for the circumstance. Like a classic vs osx , or hardware vs driver/firmware. I think that a basic set of steps would be very helpful to people who have never had to troubleshoot a system before.

mclbruce · 07-30-2003, 07:09 PM

Good subject, good comments!

I'd put run Disk Warrior as number two or three on my list.

So far I have not used or needed any other third party utility such as Norton or TechTool/Drive 10.

petey · 07-30-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by mclbruce I'd put run Disk Warrior as number two or three on my list.

i have "check the filesystem" as #2.

there are several ways to do so, DiskWarrior being a popular one.

djn1 · 07-30-2003, 07:15 PM

One other thing you might include is a suggestion to trash the many and varied cache files that OS X creates. After a major crash I often use Jaguar Cache Cleaner to delete these - mainly because I'm too lazy to remember where they all are.

petey · 07-30-2003, 08:15 PM

here's an updated list, with new/changed items in bold.

FIRST AID
- repair permissions.
- check the filesystem.
- disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it.
- create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there.
- remove any StartupItems in /Library/StartupItems/.
- unplug all USB, Firewire devices except Apple mouse.
- clear system & user caches.
- zap PRAM.

MORE SERIOUS TROUBLESHOOTING
- unplug 3rd Party PCI cards.
- reinstall the latest combo updater.
- remove any Extensions from /Library/Extensions/.
- remove 3rd party Extensions from /System/Library/Extensions.
- check the hard drive for bad blocks.
- take out 3rd party RAM.
- run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD.
- reset PMU.
- reinstall the system from scratch.
- send the machine back to Apple.

djn1 · 07-30-2003, 08:17 PM

Resetting nvram might be worth including.

petey · 07-30-2003, 08:32 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by djn1 Resetting nvram might be worth including.

any idea what the differences are, or lack thereof, between:

- zap PRAM
- reset PMU
- reset NVRAM

yellow · 07-30-2003, 08:53 PM

Great list.

I'd include booting in safe mode (booting holding down shift), [is this the same as the removal of /System/Library/Extensions?], and the removal of anything in /Library/StartupItems/.

anthlover · 07-30-2003, 09:28 PM

List is good Unless problems are really unique:
I think we all try to listen and get a bead on the problem.

I guess one or two more....

*aka Collect all Hardware info, models, and OS versions, Brief History, all recent software installs (all Non Apple Software in General).

*other users/Pets

"Pets" The latter sounds silly but I have Cats that think its funny to throw cable modem on floor, use CPU as Scratching Post, Disconnect USB Cable from back of Computer, sleep on Keyboard etc. I have slowly made most of this behavior immpossible.

For what it worth (I feel) a lot of problems are caused by people loading up hacks and tweaks.

*Apple really does not have a centralized GUI in place to remove all non Apple crud anymore (Sign in/Start up Items really not complete, Safe Boot also Good, but Partial Solution).
I was kind of Fond of Apple's Extension Manager coupled with some peoples pentient for Labeling (Color Catagory everything that was supposed to be in System and Control Panels and Extension folders and then when new stuff was another color... Course that required a lot of Disipline).

petey · 07-30-2003, 11:30 PM

SafeBoot eliminates a few diagnostic steps. Here's the shorter list:

FIRST AID
- repair permissions.
- check/fix the filesystem.
- disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it.
- create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there.
- unplug all USB, Firewire devices except Apple mouse.
- startup in SafeBoot mode, and see if the problem persists there.
- clear system & user caches.
- zap PRAM.

MORE SERIOUS TROUBLESHOOTING
- unplug 3rd Party PCI cards.
- reinstall the latest combo updater.
- check the hard drive for bad blocks.
- take out 3rd party RAM.
- run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD.
- reset PMU.
- reinstall the system from scratch.
- send the machine back to Apple.

anthlover · 07-30-2003, 11:47 PM

So pretty much were all out of job Here and @ Our work places

quick hide the list

djn1 · 07-31-2003, 03:08 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by petey any idea what the differences are, or lack thereof, between: - zap PRAM - reset PMU - reset NVRAM

There was a good discussion of this issue here.

pink · 07-31-2003, 06:24 AM

hmmm, maybe add one of the more obvious ones:

- check the relevant log files (system.log, crash log, .....)

cheers, pink

[edit] I would place checking for faulty .plist files ("create a new account...") on top of the list. So far I cured every Office-crash by deleting the preferences, both on os9 and earlier and osX.

Craig R. Arko · 07-31-2003, 08:05 AM

Great idea, Petey!

I'd probably put logout/log back in at the top of the list, since it's quick, easy, fun, and can kill some errant processes. After that, reboot (although that may be the old Machead/Winhead in me).

I'd also put 'check filesystem' just ahead of 'clear caches' just ahead of 'repair permissions' near the top, just because doing much other stuff to a corrupt filesystem could make things worse.

Also somewhere, 'backing up important data' should be inserted, just in case our troubleshooting attempts go off into unexpected places.

And sometimes, although difficult to quantify, 'listen for changes in sounds the damn thing makes', can be an early indicator of a hardware problem. Scotty used to do this on the Enterprise.

Finally, 'check and possibly reseat cables', can remove a few of the really annoying errors, especially with USB and FireWire devices.

All in all, a very fine list. In fact, I'm going to sticky this to the top of the forum for a while so it can be worked on, and then maybe turn it into a FAQ when there's a consensus it's ready for that.

yellow · 07-31-2003, 08:16 AM

As a totally useless addition, perhaps 'take a deep breath' and 'down another cup of coffee' should be included.

djn1 · 07-31-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by yellow As a totally useless addition, perhaps 'take a deep breath' and 'down another cup of coffee' should be included.

Actually, as a serious addition, and certainly if this is going to be worked up into a document that other people can be pointed at, it might be worth delineating mac troubleshooting from PC troubleshooting - particularly the significance of the 'complete reinstall' option. Many of my friends and colleagues who use PC's almost seem to consider the 'wipe and start again' approach to be one of the first, if to the first thing to do - and these are people who are by no means newbies or computer illiterates. I think, given that there are an increasing number of switchers (on this forum and elsewhere), that any troubleshooting document should include a summary of the various ways in which troubleshooting isn't quite the same issue on a mac as it is on a PC; i.e. that the majority of things can be fixed.

anthlover · 07-31-2003, 09:25 AM

From Scratch has its merits

** If we flesh out the list a little in a little more detail it really almost is a self help guide

** Course most people will need a little hand holding and there can never be enough detail in explaining how to do X or Y in the list.

GSGM · 07-31-2003, 09:45 AM

I think this would be a great idea to post the finished (is really ever finished??) list online. Perhaps http://macosxhints.com/Troubleshootinglist.html ?

Overall, I appreciate the input to the list and think there are some items there that I would have not thought of.

If I were to offer some input, you might want to add some columns to the document to indicate;

What does this step isolate/do (Helps decide if the problem is hard/software, user specific, general maintenance)

Some brief instructions on how to do this step. (Is there a command line to type, utlity to run, etc..)

07-30-2003, 04:09 PM	#1
petey All Star Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: peteyville Posts: 794	Generic OS X Troubleshooting List in another thread, a poster was having mysterious trouble with applications quitting, and was wondering if he should just reinstall the system. so i tried putting together a list of generalized troubleshooting steps in the order i would proceed. so if you are seeing a recurring problem that has no easy solution, what would you do? am i missing anything? would others do things differently, or in a different order? - repair permissions. - check the filesystem. - disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it. - create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there. - check that there are no system StartupItems in /Library/StartupItems/. - unplug all USB, Firewire, and 3rd Party PCI cards. - reinstall the combo updater. - check the hard drive for bad blocks. - take out 3rd party RAM. - run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD. - reinstall the system from scratch. - send the machine back to Apple.

07-30-2003, 06:48 PM	#3
tlarkin League Commissioner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 11,352	Thats a pretty good list. I could maybe only add: 1)check for OS/firmware/driver updates 2)reset firmware (zap pram) I would troubleshoot software first (like fix permissions, run fsck, diskwarrior) then try componet isolation (remove 3rd party ram/devices). that is of course if the system actually powers on and boots. If you get no POST then I would try to troubleshoot hardware first. I thought about compiling a basic troubleshooting list I could just point to people online as well. Only thing is the list would change for the circumstance. Like a classic vs osx , or hardware vs driver/firmware. I think that a basic set of steps would be very helpful to people who have never had to troubleshoot a system before. __________________ sudo make me a sammich

07-30-2003, 07:09 PM	#4
mclbruce Hall of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,878	don't forget Disk Warrior Good subject, good comments! I'd put run Disk Warrior as number two or three on my list. So far I have not used or needed any other third party utility such as Norton or TechTool/Drive 10.

07-30-2003, 07:15 PM	#6
djn1 MVP Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,212	One other thing you might include is a suggestion to trash the many and varied cache files that OS X creates. After a major crash I often use Jaguar Cache Cleaner to delete these - mainly because I'm too lazy to remember where they all are. __________________ chromasia G4/800, OS 10.3.x, 1.25GB RAM, 2x80GB HD, 60GB firewire, Geforce4MX, Iiyama VMpro 455+413 Goldtouch keyboard, Cirque EasyCat trackpad, D-Link DSL-604+

07-30-2003, 08:15 PM	#7
petey All Star Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: peteyville Posts: 794	Updated List here's an updated list, with new/changed items in bold. FIRST AID - repair permissions. - check the filesystem. - disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it. - create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there. - remove any StartupItems in /Library/StartupItems/. - unplug all USB, Firewire devices except Apple mouse. - clear system & user caches. - zap PRAM. MORE SERIOUS TROUBLESHOOTING - unplug 3rd Party PCI cards. - reinstall the latest combo updater. - remove any Extensions from /Library/Extensions/. - remove 3rd party Extensions from /System/Library/Extensions. - check the hard drive for bad blocks. - take out 3rd party RAM. - run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD. - reset PMU. - reinstall the system from scratch. - send the machine back to Apple.

07-30-2003, 04:12 PM	#2
djn1 MVP Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,212	Good list, but I'd include tracking down and removing any relevant plists if it's an app specific problem. I realise you can probably isolate this with your fourth step - perhaps this should be considered an alternative. __________________ chromasia G4/800, OS 10.3.x, 1.25GB RAM, 2x80GB HD, 60GB firewire, Geforce4MX, Iiyama VMpro 455+413 Goldtouch keyboard, Cirque EasyCat trackpad, D-Link DSL-604+

07-30-2003, 08:17 PM	#8
djn1 MVP Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,212	Resetting nvram might be worth including. __________________ chromasia G4/800, OS 10.3.x, 1.25GB RAM, 2x80GB HD, 60GB firewire, Geforce4MX, Iiyama VMpro 455+413 Goldtouch keyboard, Cirque EasyCat trackpad, D-Link DSL-604+

07-30-2003, 08:53 PM	#10
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	Great list. I'd include booting in safe mode (booting holding down shift), [is this the same as the removal of /System/Library/Extensions?], and the removal of anything in /Library/StartupItems/. Last edited by yellow; 07-30-2003 at 08:57 PM.

07-30-2003, 09:28 PM	#11
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	List good Unless problems are really unique: List is good Unless problems are really unique: I think we all try to listen and get a bead on the problem. I guess one or two more.... aka Collect all Hardware info, models, and OS versions, Brief History, all recent software installs (all Non Apple Software in General). other users/Pets "Pets" The latter sounds silly but I have Cats that think its funny to throw cable modem on floor, use CPU as Scratching Post, Disconnect USB Cable from back of Computer, sleep on Keyboard etc. I have slowly made most of this behavior immpossible. For what it worth (I feel) a lot of problems are caused by people loading up hacks and tweaks. Apple really does not have a centralized GUI in place to remove all non Apple crud anymore (Sign in/Start up Items really not complete, Safe Boot also Good, but Partial Solution). I was kind of Fond of Apple's Extension Manager coupled with some peoples pentient for Labeling (Color Catagory everything that was supposed to be in System and Control Panels and Extension folders and then when new stuff was another color... Course that required a lot of Disipline). Last edited by anthlover; 07-30-2003 at 09:30 PM.*

07-30-2003, 11:30 PM	#12
petey All Star Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: peteyville Posts: 794	SafeBoot eliminates a few steps. SafeBoot eliminates a few diagnostic steps. Here's the shorter list: FIRST AID - repair permissions. - check/fix the filesystem. - disable Application Enhancer, if you're running it. - create a new user account, and see if the problem persists there. - unplug all USB, Firewire devices except Apple mouse. - startup in SafeBoot mode, and see if the problem persists there. - clear system & user caches. - zap PRAM. MORE SERIOUS TROUBLESHOOTING - unplug 3rd Party PCI cards. - reinstall the latest combo updater. - check the hard drive for bad blocks. - take out 3rd party RAM. - run the Apple hardware diagnostic CD. - reset PMU. - reinstall the system from scratch. - send the machine back to Apple.

07-30-2003, 11:47 PM	#13
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	So pretty much were all out of job here and @ work places quick hide the list:) So pretty much were all out of job Here and @ Our work places quick hide the list

07-31-2003, 06:24 AM	#15
pink Major Leaguer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 441	hmmm, maybe add one of the more obvious ones: - check the relevant log files (system.log, crash log, .....) cheers, pink [edit] I would place checking for faulty .plist files ("create a new account...") on top of the list. So far I cured every Office-crash by deleting the preferences, both on os9 and earlier and osX. __________________ "And what have we got in here ? - Ahh, things.." (Louis (2), inspecting kitchen cupboards.) Last edited by pink; 07-31-2003 at 06:30 AM.

07-31-2003, 08:05 AM	#16
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Great idea, Petey! I'd probably put logout/log back in at the top of the list, since it's quick, easy, fun, and can kill some errant processes. After that, reboot (although that may be the old Machead/Winhead in me). I'd also put 'check filesystem' just ahead of 'clear caches' just ahead of 'repair permissions' near the top, just because doing much other stuff to a corrupt filesystem could make things worse. Also somewhere, 'backing up important data' should be inserted, just in case our troubleshooting attempts go off into unexpected places. And sometimes, although difficult to quantify, 'listen for changes in sounds the damn thing makes', can be an early indicator of a hardware problem. Scotty used to do this on the Enterprise. Finally, 'check and possibly reseat cables', can remove a few of the really annoying errors, especially with USB and FireWire devices. All in all, a very fine list. In fact, I'm going to sticky this to the top of the forum for a while so it can be worked on, and then maybe turn it into a FAQ when there's a consensus it's ready for that.

07-31-2003, 08:16 AM	#17
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	As a totally useless addition, perhaps 'take a deep breath' and 'down another cup of coffee' should be included.

07-31-2003, 09:25 AM	#19
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	From Scratch has its merits:) From Scratch has its merits If we flesh out the list a little in a little more detail it really almost is a self help guide Course most people will need a little hand holding and there can never be enough detail in explaining how to do X or Y in the list.

07-31-2003, 09:45 AM	#20
GSGM Triple-A Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 68	Troubleshooting List Online I think this would be a great idea to post the finished (is really ever finished??) list online. Perhaps http://macosxhints.com/Troubleshootinglist.html ? Overall, I appreciate the input to the list and think there are some items there that I would have not thought of. If I were to offer some input, you might want to add some columns to the document to indicate; What does this step isolate/do (Helps decide if the problem is hard/software, user specific, general maintenance) Some brief instructions on how to do this step. (Is there a command line to type, utlity to run, etc..)