PPC 970 info and speculation - Page 2

Craig R. Arko · 06-08-2003, 09:30 AM

Well, that seems to go along with what MacBidouille claims.

You gotta wonder if these people are all just quoting each other or if there are different sources involved.

I did see a few weeks ago that GCC 3.3 was committed to CVS with support for the 970 and the Power4 rolled in. I'm hoping we see some of the IBM development tools make there way into either Apple's stuff or as a separate product offering. Who knows what Moto will do with CodeWarrior?

What do you folks think about the 15" PowerBook? 970 or the new Motorola 7457?

yellow · 06-08-2003, 09:46 AM

Quote:


	Craig wrote: "What do you folks think about the 15" PowerBook? 970 or the new Motorola 7457?"

Hmm.. I think it'll be quite some time before we see a 970 in anything but a desktop. So I guess I think 7457.

Craig R. Arko · 06-08-2003, 10:19 AM

I agree; I think the G4 and IBM modified G3 will be around for a while, yet.

yellow · 06-08-2003, 10:30 AM

Think they'll move the G4 into the iBook eventually? That'd make a pretty nifty iBook. While I am excited about the 970, I must admit, I can't really conceptually grasp what a difference I will see. The G4s & Jaguar seem pretty durned fast to me. That aside, like most fans of Apple products I'll be drooling over the 970 when it comes out. Now the hard part is fighting the neigh-overwhelming urge to go into debt to but a new G5 Mac!

Craig R. Arko · 06-08-2003, 10:57 AM

Hehehe;

I read that the version of Jag (10.2.7) for these guys is code-named 'smeagol/gollum', where smeagol will run on the current hardware, but gollum will only run on the Precious.

yellow · 06-08-2003, 10:58 AM

LOL!

danielmaui · 06-08-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by AKcrab I speculate they were waiting for "solid" information.

O gosh... more speculation!

darkpaw · 06-08-2003, 08:35 PM

It would be great to get a new G5-based Mac, but I bought my 867DP MDD in Sept 2002 and can't justify selling it to upgrade quite yet. This baby's got a few years left in her yet.

And besides I just bought a new house. I can't afford a new computer...

Damn

bandit · 06-09-2003, 10:15 AM

this 970 chip sounds cool and all, and i have a silly question to ask. how come on the dells and other intel PCs they have 2ghz or more on their machines.
why are macs still astonished at 1.2 or 1.4ghz? i know its a diff. architecture but are the chips not all the same. why dont we see 2.something yet on macs?

yellow · 06-09-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:


	bandit wrote:I know its a diff. architecture but are the chips not all the same.

You answered your own question, and then defeated it

. It's a totally different architecture, so the 2 GHz aren't really comparable. Relying on MHz to say 'my computer is faster than yours' is something for slack-jawed salesmen. While the AMD/Intel chipset has more cycles per second, they need it because of all the overly-complicated instructions on each chip, and the lengthy 'size' of the data pipe. This was how Apples managed to keep up in the early years of the G4, because the data pipe was short, and so was the instruction set. So while their MHz ceiling was much lower, they were comparable in 'actual' speed. However, since they hit the ceiling IBM/Motorola's chipsets have been left in the dust. The G5 has been a long time in coming. I hope someone will correct any errors I have written here.

[edit: I did indeed mean 2 GHz! Thanks Craig]

Craig R. Arko · 06-09-2003, 11:11 AM

I think you mean '2 gHz' and not '2 mHz.'

Otherwise I recommend the Ars Technica article mentioned in the opening post of this thread as a place to begin to understand the answer to the questions asked. It's somewhat heavy going in areas, but if you bear with it, it does explain a few things.

Craig R. Arko · 06-09-2003, 04:35 PM

This just about wraps it up. It looks like 'smeagol' is the build of Jaguar that runs on the 970, and it's going to be Panther (and gcc 3.3) that we'll be waiting on.

Rare to see the hardware outpacing the software (for a welcome change).

bandit · 06-09-2003, 05:42 PM

isnt panther due in july and 970 end of year?
upgrading to panther on our machines will mean what, just a faster booting-up time? better window resizing? in other words this new os is targeted at making full use of the new hardware???

Craig R. Arko · 06-09-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by bandit isnt panther due in july and 970 end of year? upgrading to panther on our machines will mean what, just a faster booting-up time? better window resizing? in other words this new os is targeted at making full use of the new hardware???

First part: apparently not.

Second part: I don't think we know much about how Panther will perform on current hardware yet.

Third part: I'd say those are the exact words.

bandit · 06-09-2003, 06:42 PM

good one Craig, thanks

yellow · 06-10-2003, 08:15 AM

Can't believe that dirty Jobsies wants to put poor Smeagol on the filthy G4sies! Poor Smeagol.. where is the precious? *gollum* *gollum*

AKcrab · 06-10-2003, 05:55 PM

MacWhispers
Interesting tidbits:

Quote:


	- The plant contracted for assembly of the new Power Mac is now actually manufacturing production Power Macs with single PPC 970 processors. - The plant contracted for assembly of the new 15.4-inch Powerbook has just now begun manufacturing production Powerbooks with the PPC 970 processor.

Quote:


	In closing, we want to address the performance of the new PPC 970 machines, as we do have direct information on this topic, and we consider that information to be highly reliable. Despite the recent flurry of confusing claims published by eWeek and others, we stand by our report that the new Power Mac and Powerbook have overall performance approximately 1.25 to 1.5 times that of a similarly clocked G4 on non-Altivec optimized applications. On Altivec optimized tasks, these machines have as much as 2 to 2.5 times the through performance as a similarly clocked G4. Our understanding is that this performance is occurring using bone-stock OS X 10.2.6 on pre-production single processor PPC 970 machines... an OS with none of the optimization now being rumored as being needed for supporting the PPC 970's performance potential.

G5 Powerbooks?
2-2.5 times the speed, even with 10.2.6?

Holy Cow!

bassi · 06-10-2003, 06:39 PM

I wouldn't trust Macwhispers, quite a bad track record. Stick to Thinksecret and the eWeek stuff. Better yet, be patient and await the shiny new toys which are noisier than a Toshiba Satellite on a humid day.

mervTormel · 06-10-2003, 06:47 PM

Toshiba Satellite? you mean Plymouth Satellite?

_________
donning my foil helmet

bassi · 06-11-2003, 01:18 AM

Brrrrm brrrrm!

06-08-2003, 08:35 PM	#28
darkpaw All Star Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: England Posts: 513	It would be great to get a new G5-based Mac, but I bought my 867DP MDD in Sept 2002 and can't justify selling it to upgrade quite yet. This baby's got a few years left in her yet. And besides I just bought a new house. I can't afford a new computer... Damn __________________ http://www.keeponfighting.net - Fighting for animal rights http://www.darkpaw.co.uk http://www.needstuff.co.uk - Recycle your unwanted clutter for FREE! (UK only)

06-09-2003, 10:15 AM	#29
bandit Triple-A Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: wi Posts: 106	this 970 chip sounds cool and all, and i have a silly question to ask. how come on the dells and other intel PCs they have 2ghz or more on their machines. why are macs still astonished at 1.2 or 1.4ghz? i know its a diff. architecture but are the chips not all the same. why dont we see 2.something yet on macs? __________________ warp capable G4 what fool hath bringeth a drop of water to the mighty ocean?

06-09-2003, 04:35 PM	#32
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	eWeek report This just about wraps it up. It looks like 'smeagol' is the build of Jaguar that runs on the 970, and it's going to be Panther (and gcc 3.3) that we'll be waiting on. Rare to see the hardware outpacing the software (for a welcome change).

06-09-2003, 05:42 PM	#33
bandit Triple-A Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: wi Posts: 106	isnt panther due in july and 970 end of year? upgrading to panther on our machines will mean what, just a faster booting-up time? better window resizing? in other words this new os is targeted at making full use of the new hardware??? __________________ warp capable G4 what fool hath bringeth a drop of water to the mighty ocean? Last edited by bandit; 06-09-2003 at 05:51 PM.

06-09-2003, 06:42 PM	#35
bandit Triple-A Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: wi Posts: 106	good one Craig, thanks __________________ warp capable G4 what fool hath bringeth a drop of water to the mighty ocean?

06-08-2003, 09:30 AM	#21
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Well, that seems to go along with what MacBidouille claims. You gotta wonder if these people are all just quoting each other or if there are different sources involved. I did see a few weeks ago that GCC 3.3 was committed to CVS with support for the 970 and the Power4 rolled in. I'm hoping we see some of the IBM development tools make there way into either Apple's stuff or as a separate product offering. Who knows what Moto will do with CodeWarrior? What do you folks think about the 15" PowerBook? 970 or the new Motorola 7457?

06-08-2003, 10:19 AM	#23
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	I agree; I think the G4 and IBM modified G3 will be around for a while, yet.

06-08-2003, 10:30 AM	#24
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	Think they'll move the G4 into the iBook eventually? That'd make a pretty nifty iBook. While I am excited about the 970, I must admit, I can't really conceptually grasp what a difference I will see. The G4s & Jaguar seem pretty durned fast to me. That aside, like most fans of Apple products I'll be drooling over the 970 when it comes out. Now the hard part is fighting the neigh-overwhelming urge to go into debt to but a new G5 Mac!

06-08-2003, 10:57 AM	#25
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Hehehe; I read that the version of Jag (10.2.7) for these guys is code-named 'smeagol/gollum', where smeagol will run on the current hardware, but gollum will only run on the Precious.

06-08-2003, 10:58 AM	#26
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	LOL!

06-09-2003, 11:11 AM	#31
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	I think you mean '2 gHz' and not '2 mHz.' Otherwise I recommend the Ars Technica article mentioned in the opening post of this thread as a place to begin to understand the answer to the questions asked. It's somewhat heavy going in areas, but if you bear with it, it does explain a few things.

06-10-2003, 08:15 AM	#36
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	Smeagol Can't believe that dirty Jobsies wants to put poor Smeagol on the filthy G4sies! Poor Smeagol.. where is the precious? gollum gollum

06-10-2003, 06:39 PM	#38
bassi Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 498	I wouldn't trust Macwhispers, quite a bad track record. Stick to Thinksecret and the eWeek stuff. Better yet, be patient and await the shiny new toys which are noisier than a Toshiba Satellite on a humid day.

06-10-2003, 06:47 PM	#39
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	Toshiba Satellite? you mean Plymouth Satellite? _________ donning my foil helmet

06-11-2003, 01:18 AM	#40
bassi Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 498	Brrrrm brrrrm!