Reasons not to like the Mac App Store

[NovaScotian]

Both BBEdit (which I have used for many years now) and TextWrangler have "Check for Updates" in their app menus. As long as that remains there, I'll just stick to the "direct" versions (as opposed to the App Store versions).

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko Also one big plus with the Mac App Store is that everything you purchase from it is essentially a family pack license, at least according to my understanding. You can authorize multiple machines and put the software on all of them. That's a good deal for the end user.

Perhaps that's the case, I haven't read anything which verifies, or refutes it, but it's not going to work the way we are used to things working. Here's what I mean:

"With MAS apps, you will likely run into various copy-protection problems — even with freeware. Most notably, after copying an MAS app to a different computer via the Finder, it likely won’t launch. It will typically either trigger a message asking for your Apple ID/password or simply refuse to launch with no alert given."

Thank you Ted Landau for illuminating us!

[renaultssoftware]

Quote: "With MAS apps, you will likely run into various copy-protection problems — even with freeware. Most notably, after copying an MAS app to a different computer via the Finder, it likely won’t launch. It will typically either trigger a message asking for your Apple ID/password or simply refuse to launch with no alert given."

False. I installed Angry Birds on one computer and copied it over to the other. No problem.

[tlarkin]

Intel is releasing that new technology in their processors that have piracy detection in them. I cannot recall all the specifics off the top of my head, but Apple could very well take advantage of that down the road.

Google it if you want all the info on it.

[edalzell]

http://www.macworld.com/article/1571...=twt_danfrakes

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Getting back to hayne's analogy / metaphor, this is equivalent to the city removing all of the independent food vendors from the most popular telephone directory.

If the city was maintaining a directory of food vendors before, they may well have decided that it isn't worthwhile keeping on doing this now that the city is providing an approved and managed location for obtaining street food.

You seem to be missing the fact that (as has been pointed out by others above re tradeoffs) that there is always a cost to everything. Apple likely decided that the cost of maintaining the OS X applications directory is no longer worth it now that they have what they think is a better way to direct people to software.

Apple can't just let the existing database sit there unmaintained. So it's a cost/benefit analysis that determines whether to maintain it or not now that we have the App Store.

It's the same thing with an application developer that decides not to provide a version of their app that works on an older version of OS X. It costs the developer time/money to maintain multiple versions of their application. So we see developers dropping support for older versions of OS X. Not because they want to screw you, merely because they aren't doing this for free.

[fracai]

Quote: Originally Posted by renaultssoftware False. I installed Angry Birds on one computer and copied it over to the other. No problem.

Out of curiosity, did it prompt for your Apple ID and password?

[fracai]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai I also don't ever see this happening with MacOS X, at least not in its current form and definitely not within the year. You'll see the Mac discontinued and replaced with "Desktop iOS" before that happens. That sort of transition is several years away.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Quote: Originally Posted by fracai You'll see the Mac discontinued and replaced with "Desktop iOS"… I'm glad somebody else sees this happening to the Mac sometime in the near future, but I'm guessing they'll keep the Mac moniker and just change OS X to iOS.

That's some creative quoting there. I don't see it happening in the "near future", that's why I said "definitely not within the year" and "several years away".

In order for iOS to replace the Mac, it needs the ability to activate the device, update the OS, and create and restore backups all without tethering to another computer. You also need developer tools running on iOS. Those are big features and ones that will take time to implement; we unfortunately won't be seeing them any time soon. Plus, "Mac iOS" is kinda clumsy. "iOS Desktop" is better, but not much. Finally, I think the "Back to the Mac" event was pretty clear that they were still very much interested in keeping the Mac platform going. Bringing some iOS features and design patterns to MacOS is a good thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK If it's true that they don't include an uninstaller with the MAS app, then I'd say it speaks volumes about Apple's intent. You can't convince me that Apple was technically unable, or didn't have the manpower, to provide an uninstaller at launch. Easy to get in, not so easy to get out… just like Time Machine.

Well, personally I think it fits with Apple's development history: ship a product and then iteratively produce incremental improvements, while refining existing features.
You could also have said, and many did, that Apple should have easily shipped cut and paste with the original iPhone. Instead they refined other features and shipped cut and paste when they had a good solution, implemented well across the OS. Look at Android, which recently got cut and paste. Depending on what app you're using, it's a different mechanism to invoke the actions.

In the grand scheme of things app removal is a less important feature, though still necessary. The critical roles are: product discovery, purchasing, installation, and updates. Removal can be done easily enough by hand because MAS apps aren't currently allowed to scatter files across the drive. Of course, a few of Apple's offerings have early access to additional abilities and install additional files, though I see this as an indication that it'll arrive for other apps once Apple has had a chance to thoroughly evaluate and mature the process.
Here's my prediction: app removal, and maybe even greater freedom in resource installation, shows up with Lion. I doubt we'll see major updates to the MAS before then.

[capitalj]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai Out of curiosity, did it prompt for your Apple ID and password?

Out of curiosity, I just copied Angry Birds from my wife's computer to mine. We have different Apple IDs. I'm interested in renaultssoftware's experience, but I can say yes, at least if it was purchased with a different ID.

Quote: "Angry Birds" was purchased from the App Store on another computer. Please sign in with your Apple ID to authorize it for use on this computer.

After entering her password, I signed out of her account in the App Store, then back into mine. It showed up as installed in the store, but not as a purchase in my account, so I assume I would have to log into her account for updates. After I trashed all traces, logged out of my user account and back in, the "$4.99 Buy" button is back.

I only downloaded a few free and 99¢ apps to give the store a whirl. I'm still reserving judgement. But we didn't hesitate to spend $4.99 on Angry Birds, because the kids love it.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne Apple likely decided that the cost of maintaining the OS X applications directory is no longer worth it now …

Yep, they can't be bothered anymore. Are you okay with that? I'm certainly not.

[hayne]

Once again, you don't seem to be seeing that there is a cost involved in everything. Apple can do lots of things. They need to pick and choose which things they do and which they don't. Just like any enterprise, any government, any individual.

I think the main reason that Apple maintained the (previous) database of OS X applications was that it helped sell more Macs (by making it easier to find software for those Macs, thus making the Macs more valuable to consumers).

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by renaultssoftware False. I installed Angry Birds on one computer and copied it over to the other. No problem.

Well, according to that article, developers can implement from 0 to 5 different levels of copy protection, DRM, or receipt verification, whichever term you want to use. If you were able to copy Angry Birds over, and run it, on your second Mac, then the developer has chosen not to implement some, most, or all of those five levels. As I see it, this will cause all sorts of confusion among end users, especially those who were previously incapable of installing apps (like mnewman's mother, and mine too). This is even going to trip up folks who do Mac support for a living.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by capitalj After entering her password, I signed out of her account in the App Store, then back into mine. It showed up as installed in the store, but not as a purchase in my account, so I assume I would have to log into her account for updates. After I trashed all traces, logged out of my user account and back in, the "$4.99 Buy" button is back.

Thanks for posting that capitalj. Doesn't sound like Apple has managed to bump up the convenience factor to me. Quite the opposite really. Also, consider the fact that everything you did above would have been impossible if you had no internet connection for those computers. Two thumbs down.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai That's some creative quoting there. I don't see it happening in the "near future", that's why I said "definitely not within the year" and "several years away".

Okay, sorry to take your words out of context. In my mind, even two or three years from now would be considered "the near future". Time flies!

[NovaScotian]

This "rigidifying" of rules seems to have extended to my iPod Touch [2G] as well. For the first time in a while, I found 6 upgrades for the apps on my Touch, but to download them I had to respond to the "iTunes Terms of Service Have Changed" message not once but THREE times. If that keeps up, I'm off to Android. Complete PITA.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaScotian This "rigidifying" of rules seems to have extended to my iPod Touch [2G] as well. For the first time in a while, I found 6 upgrades for the apps on my Touch, but to download them I had to respond to the "iTunes Terms of Service Have Changed" message not once but THREE times. If that keeps up, I'm off to Android. Complete PITA.

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin Intel is releasing that new technology in their processors that have piracy detection in them. I cannot recall all the specifics off the top of my head, but Apple could very well take advantage of that down the road.

Sounds like a topic that deserves it's own thread. I'd like to find out more, discuss it, etc.

[NovaScotian]

I'm fine with a moderator moving Post #176 and this one to a new thread: "iPod App Store Rules Changing Too"

[ThreeBKK]

No need to remove that post from this thread, it's relevant here, but for purposes of expanding (or is it expounding?) on the topic, it might be nice to start a new thread.

[fracai]

MacWorld has a list of 10 changes they'd like to see in the MAS.

[renaultssoftware]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai Out of curiosity, did it prompt for your Apple ID and password?

No, but I have the same App Store ID on both computers.