Reasons not to like the Mac App Store

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko Again, it pays to have choices. I hope enough of the software vendors realize that. I hope Apple remembers it, too.

Thanks for chiming in Craig. I admire your optimism.

[Craig R. Arko]

I was raised as an engineer. Everything is a tradeoff.

[benwiggy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko I was raised as an engineer. Everything is a tradeoff.

That's the best thing I've ever read.

I do have to admit that I am disappointed by the TextWrangler issue, as one of my uses for it is editing system files. So I'll be downloading TW from BareBones until it's sorted out.

I still think the prediction that Apple will lock down the Mac and only allow App Store apps to run is a little far-fetched (particularly combined with the Cassandra-style warning that it's just a matter of time before iTunes won't let you rip CDs); but without wishing to sound like a free market evangelist -- if the App Store doesn't give people what they want, then then people will go elsewhere.

If Apple made it so that I couldn't download from anywhere else, and I couldn't install anything else, and I couldn't run shell scripts or even AppleScripts, or use the Terminal at all: then I would certainly have to reconsider whether I could use a Mac for my general purpose computing device. And I would have to question why anyone who thinks this is the future for OS X would still be using one.
But I strongly believe that there is no business case for Apple to do this. It would be suicide.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Steve Jobs will get on stage, during one of his presentations, and state that, "Starting on X date, all Mac apps will be sold exclusively through the Mac App Store." I'm going to predict this announcement will happen no more than one year after the MAS's grand opening, though I don't have any idea how long it will take to actually implement.

The URL of this thread is marked in iCal for one year from now. I guarantee that this will not happen.

Still keen to know what the problem is with giving a shop your credit card details, though, as that's kind of what they're for.

[aehurst]

As a non-professional, most average user, I don't understand the problem. I didn't particularly like the apps store and found the selection of software quite limited. Not being able to try before buying would turn me off to the few apps I saw that I might want to purchase. As a rule, I dump 95% of the freeware I download after I've tried it out. Shareware doesn't fare much better.

Would think a developer being able to get their app into the app store would be the same thing as a manufacturer getting shelf space in a Walmart..... this has got to be a better deal for them than marketing their app themselves.

Before Apple can lock out other developers of software, they are going to have to come to some agreements with people like Adobe and Microsoft. A Mac world without Word, Excel, Dreamweaver and a host of Adobe products would doom the Mac to irrelevance.

I think the fears are unfounded. The apps store is just one more source, and that's all it is.

[renaultssoftware]

C'mon guys. The Mac is a truck, according to Steve Jobs. You can repair your own truck, or you can send it to the shop. Cars get sent to the shop (new ones).

[fracai]

Quote: Originally Posted by benwiggy The URL of this thread is marked in iCal for one year from now. I guarantee that this will not happen.

Gah, beat me to it! It's some tasty claim chowder indeed.

I also don't ever see this happening with MacOS X, at least not in its current form and definitely not within the year. You'll see the Mac discontinued and replaced with "Desktop iOS" before that happens. That sort of transition is several years away.



The bottom line in all of this is that it's far too early to break out the "End is Nigh" signs.
Yes, the MAS is more restrictive than other distribution methods.
Yes, there are several issues, problems, and room for improvement with the MAS as it stands today.
But, it's also far more convenient.
And, many of the existing issues will be fixed out over time.
And if you don't like how it works, the vast majority of apps are still available via non-MAS methods.

Additionally, there are no actual indications that Apple plans to make Macs MAS-only.
I doubt even they think they'd be ready anytime soon to go MAS-only (seeing as there are legitimate issues with app functionality and there are whole classes of applications which aren't compatible with the current MAS terms).
Yes, going MAS-only would be very very bad for certain segments of Apple's current customer base and I'd be there complaining to Apple.
It would also be very very good for other segments of Apple's customer base.
Still others simply wouldn't care.

There are other, legitimate issues with the store that actually warrant discussion and a report to Apple. I don't think they'd care much if anyone submitted a bug report stating that it'd be bad if the Mac went AppStore exclusive.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Does anybody know if the MAS installer also includes an uninstaller? If so, how completely does it remove software with multiple different file and folder locations?

As far as I can tell, there's no uninstaller. This is something they definitely need to add, and I'm sure they will.
I'd be willing to bet they'll also add the ability for apps to install files in other locations, like the BareBones command line tools. External files will definitely need an uninstaller.
I'd also like to see the MAS track preference and cache files that the app will create and then uninstall those when removing the app.

[fracai]

Quote: Originally Posted by aehurst Before Apple can lock out other developers of software, they are going to have to come to some agreements with people like Adobe and Microsoft. A Mac world without Word, Excel, Dreamweaver and a host of Adobe products would doom the Mac to irrelevance. I think the fears are unfounded. The apps store is just one more source, and that's all it is.

This, exactly.

[renaultssoftware]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko I was raised as an engineer. Everything is a tradeoff.

Can I add this to my sig, à la schwartze?

[Craig R. Arko]

Quote: Originally Posted by renaultssoftware Can I add this to my sig, à la schwartze?

I promise not to charge trademark royalties.

[fracai]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko I promise not to charge trademark royalties.

Hmmm... I don't trust you, I'm going with the WebM signature instead.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai As far as I can tell, there's no uninstaller. This is something they definitely need to add, and I'm sure they will.

If it's true that they don't include an uninstaller with the MAS app, then I'd say it speaks volumes about Apple's intent. You can't convince me that Apple was technically unable, or didn't have the manpower, to provide an uninstaller at launch. Easy to get in, not so easy to get out… just like Time Machine.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by fracai You'll see the Mac discontinued and replaced with "Desktop iOS"…

I'm glad somebody else sees this happening to the Mac sometime in the near future, but I'm guessing they'll keep the Mac moniker and just change OS X to iOS.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig R. Arko I was raised as an engineer. Everything is a tradeoff.

You must have been the envy of all the other kids at Christmas time. They were relegated to playing with scale model trains while you got to run the real thing.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by aehurst ...Before Apple can lock out other developers of software, they are going to have to come to some agreements with people like Adobe and Microsoft. A Mac world without Word, Excel, Dreamweaver and a host of Adobe products would doom the Mac to irrelevance. I think the fears are unfounded. The apps store is just one more source, and that's all it is.

I absolutely loathe Adobe products and MS Office. I just wish there were competition out there to make better products.

I know the end users like those products but from my end they are nothing but head aches.

[aehurst]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin I absolutely loathe Adobe products and MS Office. I just wish there were competition out there to make better products. I know the end users like those products but from my end they are nothing but head aches.

Totally agree, but a necessary evil to have them since that's what 90+ percent of the business world continues to use. Sure there are work arounds, but it's just a lot easier to pay the blood money and join the masses. I swear Office gets worse with every new version.

Even the Apple Store sells MS Office.... but they won't pre-install it.

App Store is going to be a money maker for Apple, and that is the bottom line.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by aehurst Totally agree, but a necessary evil to have them since that's what 90+ percent of the business world continues to use. Sure there are work arounds, but it's just a lot easier to pay the blood money and join the masses. I swear Office gets worse with every new version. Even the Apple Store sells MS Office.... but they won't pre-install it. App Store is going to be a money maker for Apple, and that is the bottom line.

Well they don't follow any standards, they just make up their own because they think they can. Ever try to upgrade Flash on thousands of Macs already deployed?

I'll give you a hint, if you inspect the package contents, you will find at the core of the Adobe junk installer, there is actually a PKG file that if you pull out, you can use just it to upgrade flash. The rest of the Adobe installer is pure and utter waste of code, and nothing more than Adobe junk. Glad I found that gem....in fact I should probably post that is a hint...

[aehurst]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin Well they don't follow any standards, they just make up their own because they think they can. Ever try to upgrade Flash on thousands of Macs already deployed? ...

Ha. Problem trying to upgrade flash on ONE computer is how I discovered this forum.

[tlarkin]

Quote: Originally Posted by aehurst Ha. Problem trying to upgrade flash on ONE computer is how I discovered this forum.

HAHA!

[ThreeBKK]

Just found this article entitled, "Don't like the App Store? Delete it!".

I also just visited www.apple.com/downloads for the first time since the MAS opened. There's nothing there except for a splash page encouraging users to upgrade to the MAS. Apple's really extensive database of third-party Mac apps has now been totally eradicated. The only downloads you'll find now on Apple's site are the support downloads for Apple's own products. This totally reminds me of how Apple stopped updating iSync support for third-party phones after the iPhone was launched.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne The city doesn't plan to make it illegal to sell food on the street. That will continue.

The removal of the downloads section formerly at www.apple.com/downloads speaks volumes about Apple's intentions with regard to third-party apps outside of the MAS. It also shows how much Apple really has the best interests of Mac consumers in mind.

Apple's own downloads site was easily among the top three places to go to find Mac apps, and you could argue that it was the best of the three. It was huge, well organized (even though they did screw up the search function a year or two ago), and listed just about every Mac app that you could imagine. The vast majority of those apps are not yet available on the MAS, I'm guessing. So, why remove the database? Would it not still be useful to Mac users who don't want to, or haven't yet found the time, to "upgrade" to 10.6.6? What about Leopard and Tiger users? Would they not still find that wealth of information useful? What about the hundreds, maybe thousands, of apps that were on the downloads site, but are not yet in the MAS? If people were having difficulty locating them before, then they'll really have a problem finding them now.

I'd like to say that removal of the site was an incredibly inconsiderate thing for Apple to do to its customers, and developers, but I think the reality is that they considered it thoroughly, realized exactly what the fallout would be, and went ahead with it anyway.

Getting back to hayne's analogy / metaphor, this is equivalent to the city removing all of the independent food vendors from the most popular telephone directory. They haven't yet made it illegal, but they're doing everything else in their power to stop them from selling food outside of the city-run venue (where they can collect their commission).