Reasons not to like the Mac App Store

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK With iOS, Apple had a new device type, running on a new OS platform, which they had a contractual obligation with AT&Crumpets to protect (i.e. keep locked down). Apple also wanted to protect battery longevity and constrain cell network data transfer amount and type. Plus, they had never done an App Store before, so many things still needed to be figured out. Because of all of this, like you said, they were very restrictive with the iOS App Store at first, then gradually loosened things up. For Mac, on the other hand, none of those things needed to be dealt with by Apple, and I don't see them loosening anything up in the future. Those applications which were forced to remove functionality were already available to users before the MAS. If you look at the reasons why the iOS App Store policies were so restrictive, which policy among them applies to the Mac platform? None.

You forgot the one I mentioned above as the most important - being able to vet apps so that Apple doesn't need to worry about their reputation being damaged. This is the Apple Store, not merely a service that Apple happens to offer. Best to be very cautious, especially at first.
As part of this line of thinking, but more in mere dollars, Apple wants to avoid support calls. Each support call costs them money, and there isn't much money to pay for many such at the lower level of app prices expected on the App Store. I know that Nintendo's primary reasons for their very restrictive game approval process are reputation and support costs. Anything that might cause extra support calls is not allowed.

[ThreeBKK]

So, in the name of "vetting" apps, Apple becomes the code police, and does a full body cavity search on every app going into the store, even though those apps were permitted to run on Mac OS days before?

That's going to go over well! (read with a heavy sarcastic tone)

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne As part of this line of thinking, but more in mere dollars, Apple wants to avoid support calls. Each support call costs them money, and there isn't much money to pay for many such at the lower level of app prices expected on the App Store. I know that Nintendo's primary reasons for their very restrictive game approval process are reputation and support costs. Anything that might cause extra support calls is not allowed.

All the more reason for Apple to keep their hands off of a distribution system that was already working just fine.

[hayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK even though those apps were permitted to run on Mac OS days before?

You don't seem to get it.
Before there was no question of allowing apps to run on OS X. There is no control of non-App Store applications.

Now that Apple is distributing apps, they take responsibility for them. It's a new situation.

It's a bit like this: There are lots of street vendors selling food in New York City. But now the city decides that it will open a food concourse in Times Square and take charge of selling the food supplied to it by the current street vendors, giving the vendor a 70% cut of the price. The city doesn't accept any and all food offered by vendors - it only sells that food which it feels happy to be associated with. Maybe it won't sell deep fried mayonnaise balls, or cookies in the shape of genitalia, etc.

Quote: All the more reason for Apple to keep their hands off of a distribution system that was already working just fine.

The city doesn't plan to make it illegal to sell food on the street. That will continue.
It works fine. But some tourists will prefer to buy their food in the city's food concourse - especially if the prices are lower there, or if they deliver magically to wherever you happen to be.

[Jasen]

So long as Apple never plans on locking down OS X so you have to jail-break it to install "unapproved" apps, like the iPhone, I have no problem with the App store. It seems to be a handy way for people to not only find new software, but for smaller developers to get their software visible. As someone who writes software, I can see the benefits. Naturally, they'll have an approval process and standards to meet. So long as there is no intention of ever blocking developers from distributing applications directly or from other venues, I don't see a reason to complain.

[acme.mail.order]

Shakespeare write a popular comedy about you lot back in 1600.

How about we compare one popular, established and well-liked Apple program and the current contentious software package:

iTunes provides 2 paths for users to acquire music: the Store, which provides convenient access to a music library, and Import, which allows users to deal with things manually.

The iTunes Store removes the need to deal with file format technicalities, titles, organization, and in general the repetitive mechanics of moving a music library to the computer and it's accessories. Click -> Enjoy media.

The Import process allows users who know and care to tinker with file format technicalities, titles, organization, and in general the repetitive mechanics of moving a music library to the computer and it's accessories.

The App Store removes the need to deal with searches, reviews, possibly fraudulent and damaging programs, downloads, archive formats, disk images, installers and in general the repetitive mechanics of installing software. Click -> Use software.

The Finder & included browser allows users who know and care to deal with searches, reviews, possibly fraudulent and damaging programs, downloads, archive formats, disk images, installers and in general the repetitive mechanics of installing software, including command-line and system modifications.


I really don't see what the problem is.

[NaOH]

With situations like this I don't like the rush to judgment since I think people are better served by seeing how things actually play out, thus allowing some perspective to develop. As Hayne noted, Apple is putting its own reputation on the line with every application it makes available, and the company has a tendency to loosen restrictions over time.

That said, a helpful way to evaluate this whole software-distribution approach is to look at in reverse. Looking at it this way sheds some light on what advantages the Mac App Store offers. Imagine that instead of the App Store having just launched that it was the standard method we were all accustomed to using and Apple just cancelled this system. Doing so would, I'm confident, lead to outcries of how Apple has taken away something which had loads of benefits. Some of the things average users would be losing from the closure of a long-established Mac App Store — and by that I mean, not most of the people posting in this thread who generally are in the minority of users since they have strong computer proficiency — are significant changes. Among them,

• People would have to evaluate the security systems that each and every software developer uses to accept payments.
  
• Individual pieces of software would no longer have a central repository and would be scattered among individual sites.
  
• Rather than average users learning to click one Dock icon to discover new software, they must peruse an ever-growing number of sites online for reviews, ratings and releases, then try to determine which are worthwhile sources of information.
  
• There are persistent reports that the growing adoption of Apple computers will lead to an increase in the number of security threats, and now users would lose any security advantages from the Apple vetting process. (To me, this security issue is one of the big concepts that seems to be eluding people everywhere when they discuss the pros and cons of the App Store.)
  
• Each piece of third-party software has, at best, an update mechanism built into it, one that is only deployed when the specific applications are launched, rather than all of them being easily checked in a single place accessible with two clicks.
  
• If a user's hard drive dies or computer gets stolen and they have no backup system in place, they are at the whim of every software developer in terms of getting to re-download the purchase at no cost if they have no copies of the serial numbers. Everyone would have lost the ability to simply re-download at no charge through the Mac App Store.
  
• Software prices go up as developers have to pay more expenses like marketing, the cost of secure transaction systems, the transaction fees associated with credit card payments, etc.
  
• Software installations would become a mess. Some software comes on a .dmg — some of those containing the application and others containing an installer package — some come ready to use but are not automatically placed in the Applications folder, few get automatically added to the Dock, etc. If you don't think that's much of a big deal, trying walking your novice grandparent through a software installation of an installer package on a .dmg when on the phone.
  
  

  Quote: I'll help you Grandma/pa. Go to www.example.com. See where it says download? Click that. [Wait for the download to complete.] Okay, at the top left of the screen, click where it says, "Safari." Click on that, then click where it says "Quit." Now look at the row of icons on the bottom of your screen. Click the one all the way on the left. It's blue and looks like a face. Here's what you should now see Grandma/pa: There should be a window open that says [Application Name] at the top of it. Inside that window is an icon that looks like a cardboard box. Double click that icon. Click Continue. Click Agree. Click Install.[Wait for the installation to complete.] Click Done. Now you should see this other icon on the Desktop, you know, the area where you have a picture of the grandkids. Click on it once and drag it to the Trash. No, a left click. Okay, good job. Now in the Dock — the row of icons at the bottom of your screen — look for the ones on the right side that look like folders. It's over by the trash can. If you place your cursor over them, you see they have names. Click the one that says Downloads. Now click where it says open in Finder. Okay, in there is something called [App Name].dmg. Left click on it once and drag it to the Trash. Now look at the top left of your computer screen. See where the Apple is? Okay, to the left of that it says Finder. Click on that, then click on Empty Trash. I know, it's asking if you're sure you want to do that. Click the button that says Empty Trash. Next, go back to the row of icons down by the trash can. Again, place your cursor over the folders and you'll see one called Applications. Click that. Okay, now find [App Name] that we just downloaded; the list should be alphabetical. Okay, click it. When the message pops up asking if you're sure you want to open this application because it was just downloaded, click Continue. It's open now? Okay, good. Now back in the Dock — again, that row of icons on the bottom of your screen — find the one for the application you just opened. It should look kind of like a [whatever]. Right click on that once. You'll see Options listed. Move your cursor over that, then to the right you'll see some stuff listed. Left click on the one that says, "Keep In Dock." There you go, Grandma/pa. Now all you ever have to do is click that little icon at the bottom of your screen that looks kind of like a [whatever]."

  
  

These are the obvious benefits of the Mac App Store after just a few days.

Really, for the majority of Mac users — which is to say, the bulk of the people who have bought one of the tens of millions of Apple computers sold in the last 5 years — the Mac App Store is loaded with advantages. No, the Mac App Store isn't perfect, and maybe never will be, whatever perfection would be, but it's a huge step forward for most, For the highly proficient users, this likely means no big deal. A couple of applications may have to be acquired through the Mac App Store when developers only release their software through that channel, but the rest will likely remain available through the pre-existing channels (developer sites, MacUpdate, etc.).

On top of all that, Apple has clearly taken a step which unifies the software development and distribution model for its customers. This is significant as it further ensures the company's success in the long term. It's a chicken-egg question when it comes to computer platforms: There needs to be consumer-worthy products which have been purchased to ensure third-party software development, but people don't buy hardware unless there is an appealing software selection.

Apple has overcome that hurdle through its intertwined initiatives — the iPod and iTunes ecosystem being available for Mac and Windows users, the successful launch of the iPhone and its annually expanded capabilities, the expansion of the mobile OS to the iPad, the use of retail stores to expose potential customers to the full range of Apple products, an overall successful emphasis on consumer-level customer support, etc. — and the Mac App Store is another step to building an appealing platform, this one for the desktop environment.

For Apple and the majority of its users, this is a tremendous step to helping expand the desktop platform and its usability. After 25+ years of the WIMP interface and 15 or so years of the Internet, this is the first time I know of when a major OS developer has greatly simplified computer expandability for the masses. This will likely help enhance adoption of the Apple desktop/laptop computer platform while increasing computer usage by average users, it will probably increase software sales for developers, and success will lead to long-term entrenchment and viability of Apple in the desktop/laptop space.

And it's Apple, none of the other parties, who are really taking a risk. If the strategy fails or has some significant missteps, the company absorbs the brunt of the repercussions. Users and developers have merely received another option for acquisition or distribution, but it's Apple which is the only one that stands to suffer significant losses if there are problems.

[mnewman]

Quote: If you don't think that's much of a big deal, trying walking your novice grandparent through a software installation of an installer package on a .dmg when on the phone.

I'm sure I've told this tale before:

When Google Earth first came out I sent my late Mom an e-mail with a link to the download page. She managed to download it, said she liked it, but complained about how long it took to start up each time she wanted to use it.

Turns out that each time she ran it she would find my e-mail message, download the .dmg file which, I believe, auto-mounted. She would then run GE from the mounted disk image. The actual GE application never made it to the Applications directory on her drive. The next time I visited her I found dozens of GE .dmg files all over her desktop which, for some reason, was her Safari downloads directory.

The Mac App store would have eliminated this mess.

[Hal Itosis]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Oops! Sorry to provoke your ire. Looks like you can get back the command-line tools by downloading something additional, outside of the MAS. Authentication saves… well, you're just SOL for now.

Not sure if i'm misunderstanding your last sentence there, but the version 3.5.1 (2886) available directly from barebones' site does do authentication saves just fine, same as ever.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hal Itosis Not sure if i'm misunderstanding your last sentence there…

Authentication saves… well, you're just SOL for now if you purchased this app from the MAS.

Capiche?

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by hayne …the most important - being able to vet apps…

Thanks hayne, I think your posts have helped me to connect the dots and see the big picture. After thinking more about your vetting theory, I now see this quite possibly happening:

Apple will shepherd customers into the Mac App Store by suggesting that all apps in the store are safe, and that anything purchased outside of the Mac App Store could be dangerous or malicious. They might choose to play up the whole Windows virus and trojan dilemma, and maybe even highlight their own security shortcomings.

Then, after Apple has succeeded in dumbfounding a certain ratio of customers into using only the MAS, they will drop the axe. Steve Jobs will get on stage, during one of his presentations, and state that, "Starting on X date, all Mac apps will be sold exclusively through the Mac App Store." I'm going to predict this announcement will happen no more than one year after the MAS's grand opening, though I don't have any idea how long it will take to actually implement.

Apple will then disallow any apps which are not trusted MAS members from running on Mac on the grounds that they haven't been vetted by Apple, and are therefore a danger to users. Developers will either have to agree to Apple's constantly evolving terms and conditions, or be left out in the cold.

I'm not going to pretend that I know how Apple will pull it off technically, but you can bet that Lion will usher this into being.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by acme.mail.order I really don't see what the problem is.

Well, myself, together with a few others, have laid out at least ten major problems and / or future concerns with the Mac App Store. If none of these ten items are problematic for you, then count yourself lucky! Several of them are problematic for me, and I see no benefits given to me in return.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by acme.mail.order iTunes provides 2 paths for users to acquire music: the Store, which provides convenient access to a music library, and Import, which allows users to deal with things manually.

This is a freeze frame of the situation as it exists today, and it doesn't take into account the path iTunes will take heading into the future, nor does it look at the path iTunes has taken since the beginning. I'm okay with the freeze frame that you are presenting, but when I view the situation in motion, I do see what the problem is. Anyway, this is not a gripe thread about iTunes, it's about the MAS, so I'll get off of this tangent.

[Craig R. Arko]

As long as the software is available direct from the manufacturer, like BareBones, I'm fine with having multiple avenues to shop.

Also one big plus with the Mac App Store is that everything you purchase from it is essentially a family pack license, at least according to my understanding.

You can authorize multiple machines and put the software on all of them. That's a good deal for the end user.

Again, it pays to have choices. I hope enough of the software vendors realize that. I hope Apple remembers it, too.

[tlarkin]

The App store is not meant for total power users. It is meant for consumers that want access to new applications. It has pretty much zero interests of Enterprise deployments and power users do not like the limited features.

I don't see anywhere for volume purchasing and of course every app that was purchased in volume you most likely have to meet security standards of your companies security policies.

It is much like the app on the iOS app store. I find most apps don't really appeal to me all that much but I am not the demographic Apple is going for. I would not consider myself an average user.

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlarkin I would not consider myself an average user.

Neither would I (consider you an average user).

[ThreeBKK]

Quote: Originally Posted by mnewman I'm sure I've told this tale before…

Funny story. Thanks for taking the time to share it!

Perhaps you'd like to discard written languages altogether because humans are born illiterate, and it takes so much time and energy to teach children how to read and write.

Let's also discard the current application installation process, which is already comparatively user friendly, and replace it with something that requires no knowledge or understanding to use… until something goes wrong. (see post #11) That way, we can save millions of users from having to make a bit of an effort to learn something useful.

When something does go wrong, at that point, how is your mother, or anybody's mother, going to cope? Apple has made things more simplified on the front end by making things more complex on the backend, so when she calls you for help, you are going to be less likely to be of assistance.

Your mother can do some basic tasks on the Mac. She didn't know about disk images, no big deal, but who is to blame for this? I'd say she has herself to blame for not taking the initiative to learn. Just like teaching a youngster to read, she should have been proactive in learning more about the OS and its core software. I'll hold the millions of other Mac users to this same standard.

I don't see how revamping / dumbing down the installation process, while at the same time, making it more complex under the hood, is a beneficial approach, unless you are a for-profit company trying to obfuscate the installation process in order to protect your shareholders' yacht payments.

[ThreeBKK]

To this day, I still manually install my widgets even though I 'm given automatic installation options. Why? Well, for some reason, the widgets end up getting installed into my home library directory rather than the main library. That means other user accounts don't get access to the widgets even after I've installed them. If I had never manually installed a widget, I'd be stupefied by this, not to mention incredibly annoyed. In the end, I'd either have to lean on somebody to do it for me, repeatedly, or I'd have to learn to do it myself. I see the Mac App Store's installer as putting people in the same situation. At some point, users are going to have to hunker down and learn something. There's no getting around it!

I'm not suggesting that all users need to take a course on how to use the Terminal. The entire application installation procedure can be accomplished in just a few simple GUI steps, though uninstallation and reinstallation can be far more complex.

(Does anybody know if the MAS installer also includes an uninstaller? If so, how completely does it remove software with multiple different file and folder locations?)

[Hal Itosis]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThreeBKK Authentication saves… well, you're just SOL for now if you purchased this app from the MAS. Capiche?

But that all was immediately prefaced with "Looks like you can get back the command-line tools by downloading something additional, outside of the MAS."

So the implication of "authentication saves… well, you're just SOL" was that the latter was unobtainable externally.

You (incorrectly) contrasted the command-line tools situation with the authentication saves situation... making it sound as if one problem was solvable and the other wasn't.

[ThreeBKK]

My apologies!

(Murmurs under his breath, "Semantics, semantics, semantics.")