Sick and Wrong; Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone - Page 5

cwtnospam · 12-22-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsman


	CWT gets it, though he missed that RICO was my original suggestion.

Really? I thought I agreed with you in post #63!

Woodsman · 12-23-2009, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam


	Really? I thought I agreed with you in post #63!

It looked to me as if you were replying to #62 alone and hadn't read my prior, but apologies if I'm wrong.

cwtnospam · 12-23-2009, 08:14 AM

I'd read it. Personally, I don't care what they get these guys on: RICO, mail fraud, truth in advertising, etc. The Feds got the notorious murderer/gangster/bootlegger Al Capone on tax evasion charges, and that's fine with me. The important thing is that they locked him up for the rest of his life, just as they should most bank and insurance company CEOs and their board of directors.

ArcticStones · 12-23-2009, 07:08 PM

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst


	For many years, I just voted against the incumbent regardless of party.... if they hadn't fixed anything, why give them another term to not fix anything again. We need a voter revolt. Throw them all out and bring in some people willing to solve some problems...

I once heard a wonderful proposal for election reform, and it’s simple:

Below any list of candidates there shall be a box labelled "none of the above". If "none of the above" wins a majority, then new elections shall be held -- with a proviso that none of the rejected candidates be allowed to participate.

I think this proposal was voiced by that delightful old grouch on Sixty Minutes.

.

NovaScotian · 12-23-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam


	I'd read it. Personally, I don't care what they get these guys on: RICO, mail fraud, truth in advertising, etc. The Feds got the notorious murderer/gangster/bootlegger Al Capone on tax evasion charges, and that's fine with me. The important thing is that they locked him up for the rest of his life, just as they should most bank and insurance company CEOs and their board of directors.

Ahh, CWT; the real problem is that the bank and insurance company CEOs have not broken any laws to get us in this trouble. We need new laws in that regard, but we aren't going to get them from this congress (or from President Obama, for that matter). They're all in bed with those folks.

cwtnospam · 12-23-2009, 10:42 PM

Last I knew, fraud was against the law.

aehurst · 12-24-2009, 09:14 AM

Well.... it is almost done. Senate bill passed and the House has previously passed a bill. Given a comfortable majority in the House and Senate, this may be a done deal with only the details to follow. Senate passed with 60 votes which, if they can hold them, makes the final vote filibuster proof. Now for a joint committee to hash out the details.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

I am surprised, frankly. Not the health care reform we wanted, but at least a tiny step in the right direction. Something to build on, maybe?

roncross@cox.net · 12-24-2009, 08:57 PM

I think that exactly how we should look at it. It's a first step and something to build on. With something this complicated, it's amazing that the bill even got this far. Recall, the 7 other presidents have tried before in the past and all have miserably failed.

So it's a small victory in the sense that it sets the tone for more regulations to follows.

aehurst · 01-08-2010, 11:16 AM

While the puzzle palace in DC ponders govt health insurance for all, main street is taking hits. Some 3 million lose health care in California due to budget shortfalls and cuts to Medicaid.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAGS1BF2R5.DTL

Nothing in the Senate or House bill will prevent this from happening again in the future... or continuing to happen in the present. Yet another example of the huge holes in the so called reform.

aehurst · 01-21-2010, 12:09 PM

Now that the Democrats have lost their filibuster proof majority in the Senate, all bets are off on health care reform. Given the Democratic candidate in a "safe" traditionally Democratic state got whipped badly because of an angry electorate, I suspect a lot of Democrats coming up for re-election are going to reconsider their positions on a lot of issues.... like health care, the national debt, and stimulus spending.

Some insiders are saying the House Democrats might just simply approve the Senate health care bill so it won't have to go back to the Senate for another vote.... others are saying that would be political suicide.

Best guess is health care reform gets watered down even more and even that will have trouble passing with the opposition screaming "we can't afford it."

cwtnospam · 01-21-2010, 01:03 PM

That isn't the really bad news. The Supreme court just ruled that a Corporation (which isn't even a US citizen) can spend whatever it likes to influence the government.

tw · 01-21-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst


	Now that the Democrats have lost their filibuster proof majority in the Senate, all bets are off on health care reform.

I kind of think that was the intent all along. the traditional role of the senate is to drag their heels to prevent 'noxious populist factions' from getting laws passed through momentary popular movements. that was supposed to be a check that defended the rights of the population from frenetic minorities, but it seems to have been co-opted by industry for their own benefit. I'll be willing to bet that the only thing the final health care bill mandates is that all Americans will be required to purchase health insurance (another sinecure for the insurance industry); there won't be anything that mandates improvements of control over the medical or insurance industries themselves.

NovaScotian · 01-21-2010, 02:33 PM

Watching from a distance, it seems that the current administration has pandered to industry on every front. I haven't been able to decide whether that's because Congress and the Senate are entirely in the thrall of business interests all around, or because that's what the administration wants. Massachusetts made it clear that it isn't what ordinary folks want.

aehurst · 01-21-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaScotian


	Watching from a distance, it seems that the current administration has pandered to industry on every front. I haven't been able to decide whether that's because Congress and the Senate are entirely in the thrall of business interests all around, or because that's what the administration wants. Massachusetts made it clear that it isn't what ordinary folks want.

Kinda tough to figure out exactly what the voters of Massachusetts were trying to say. For sure, they are angry like the rest of us. But, is it health care or the deficit, or still being at war? Some are saying, with a little credibility I think, it is the entire liberal agenda that is being slam dunked. Time to move back to the center a little?

Since there was not an incumbent in this race, you gotta think this was a strong message to the Democrats.

Probably just the economy....no job makes people a little testy.

cwtnospam · 01-21-2010, 03:11 PM

What the Republicans call the "center right" is still extremely far to the right.

I think this is more a message on the failure's of the educational system. People are once again voting against their self interests because they easily buy Big Lies like death panels.

NovaScotian · 01-21-2010, 04:29 PM

I think too that (as Newsweek put it), the Democrats, finally in power with a Senate majority instead operated as a "circular firing squad". They've been shooting themselves in the foot with their own internecine bickering while the Republicans (no matter what you think of their position on these things) have at least been monolithic.

aehurst · 01-21-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam


	That isn't the really* bad news. The Supreme court just ruled that a Corporation (which isn't even a US citizen) can spend whatever it likes to influence the government.*

That was a biggie and will be a huge boost to Republican fund raising efforts as well as attach ads..... all in time for the November elections.

cwtnospam · 01-21-2010, 05:24 PM

I think that the Democrats should have forced things through when they had the power. The Republicans certainly would, and did. As for the Republicans being monolithic, that's not a good thing either. They seem to be willing to do or say anything as long as they win, without caring if it harms the country. Health care is a good example. They've been more concerned with handing the President a loss than with doing anything that might benefit the country.

cwtnospam · 01-21-2010, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst


	That was a biggie and will be a huge boost to Republican fund raising efforts as well as attach ads..... all in time for the November elections.

Rome was once Democracy, then it became an Empire. The next empire will be run by the greediest of CEOs.

capitalj · 01-21-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaScotian


	Massachusetts made it clear that it isn't what ordinary folks want.

I'm ordinary folks, and the election didn't turn out the way I hoped. (Not that the health care bill is quite what I hoped for, either.) And 51.9 v 47.1 is hardly the "trouncing" it has been called. I know that in our town the high turnout was partly a result of by a ballot initiative to reverse a (very) slight local meals tax, a response to decreased state aid, meant to raise money especially during tourist season. It was a hot button issue before Ted Kennedy died.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam


	People are once again voting against their self interests because they easily buy Big Lies like death panels.

I mostly kept my mouth shut, but I did find myself saying things like, "No, Martha Coakley did not say anything about Brown's daughters, what actually happened was..." and, in a more snarky mood, "If tax cuts are the only way to control government spending, maybe a pay cut help will help you gain control of your personal debt."

The fickle electorate wants a miracle worker, and will quickly turn on anybody who isn't, never learning that there is no such thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaScotian


	the Democrats, finally in power with a Senate majority instead operated as a "circular firing squad".

Too true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst


	Time to move back to the center a little?

One can hope...

12-24-2009, 09:14 AM	#87
aehurst MVP Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sherwood, Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,320	Well.... it is almost done. Senate bill passed and the House has previously passed a bill. Given a comfortable majority in the House and Senate, this may be a done deal with only the details to follow. Senate passed with 60 votes which, if they can hold them, makes the final vote filibuster proof. Now for a joint committee to hash out the details. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul I am surprised, frankly. Not the health care reform we wanted, but at least a tiny step in the right direction. Something to build on, maybe? __________________ iMac, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB

12-24-2009, 08:57 PM	#88
roncross@cox.net MVP Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,764	I think that exactly how we should look at it. It's a first step and something to build on. With something this complicated, it's amazing that the bill even got this far. Recall, the 7 other presidents have tried before in the past and all have miserably failed. So it's a small victory in the sense that it sets the tone for more regulations to follows. __________________ with warm regards Ronald Cross

01-08-2010, 11:16 AM	#89
aehurst MVP Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sherwood, Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,320	While the puzzle palace in DC ponders govt health insurance for all, main street is taking hits. Some 3 million lose health care in California due to budget shortfalls and cuts to Medicaid. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAGS1BF2R5.DTL Nothing in the Senate or House bill will prevent this from happening again in the future... or continuing to happen in the present. Yet another example of the huge holes in the so called reform. __________________ iMac, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB

01-21-2010, 12:09 PM	#90
aehurst MVP Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sherwood, Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,320	Now that the Democrats have lost their filibuster proof majority in the Senate, all bets are off on health care reform. Given the Democratic candidate in a "safe" traditionally Democratic state got whipped badly because of an angry electorate, I suspect a lot of Democrats coming up for re-election are going to reconsider their positions on a lot of issues.... like health care, the national debt, and stimulus spending. Some insiders are saying the House Democrats might just simply approve the Senate health care bill so it won't have to go back to the Senate for another vote.... others are saying that would be political suicide. Best guess is health care reform gets watered down even more and even that will have trouble passing with the opposition screaming "we can't afford it." __________________ iMac, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB

01-21-2010, 02:33 PM	#93
NovaScotian League Commissioner Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 5,156	Watching from a distance, it seems that the current administration has pandered to industry on every front. I haven't been able to decide whether that's because Congress and the Senate are entirely in the thrall of business interests all around, or because that's what the administration wants. Massachusetts made it clear that it isn't what ordinary folks want. __________________ 17" MBP, OS X; 27" iMac, both OS X 10.10.x (latest)

12-23-2009, 08:14 AM	#83
cwtnospam League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,475	I'd read it. Personally, I don't care what they get these guys on: RICO, mail fraud, truth in advertising, etc. The Feds got the notorious murderer/gangster/bootlegger Al Capone on tax evasion charges, and that's fine with me. The important thing is that they locked him up for the rest of his life, just as they should most bank and insurance company CEOs and their board of directors.

12-23-2009, 10:42 PM	#86
cwtnospam League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,475	Last I knew, fraud was against the law.

01-21-2010, 01:03 PM	#91
cwtnospam League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,475	That isn't the really bad news. The Supreme court just ruled that a Corporation (which isn't even a US citizen) can spend whatever it likes to influence the government.

01-21-2010, 03:11 PM	#95
cwtnospam League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,475	What the Republicans call the "center right" is still extremely far to the right. I think this is more a message on the failure's of the educational system. People are once again voting against their self interests because they easily buy Big Lies like death panels.

01-21-2010, 04:29 PM	#96
NovaScotian League Commissioner Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 5,156	I think too that (as Newsweek put it), the Democrats, finally in power with a Senate majority instead operated as a "circular firing squad". They've been shooting themselves in the foot with their own internecine bickering while the Republicans (no matter what you think of their position on these things) have at least been monolithic. __________________ 17" MBP, OS X; 27" iMac, both OS X 10.10.x (latest)

01-21-2010, 05:24 PM	#98
cwtnospam League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,475	I think that the Democrats should have forced things through when they had the power. The Republicans certainly would, and did. As for the Republicans being monolithic, that's not a good thing either. They seem to be willing to do or say anything as long as they win, without caring if it harms the country. Health care is a good example. They've been more concerned with handing the President a loss than with doing anything that might benefit the country.