Seagate FAT32 HD for Mac backups w/ striped DMG sparse image or TrueCrypt?

mostly harmless · 03-25-2009, 09:03 AM

I would like to buy another backup hard drive.

The 1TB FreeAgent Desk USB2.0 drive from Seagate is 30% less expensive than the Mac edition with Firewire 800.
Since I would use it for monthly backups, USB would be OK.

I read however that it can`t be formatted in HFS+. Only FAT32 and NTFS.
I could use a DMG disk image but FAT32 can`t deal with files larger than 4GB.

So would it be possible to create a striped sparse image on this FAT32-formatted external hard drive?
Is there any program that can create striped sparse images or do I have to use the terminal?

An alternative might be TrueCrypt which can encrypt a complete volume.
However I don`t know if in this case OS X would see a volume that could be formatted in HFS+. I think it might be but I just don`t know.
I also don`t know how robust this feature of TrueCrypt is. Maybe this also depends on the platform.

A disk image would be OK since I was considering encryption for this drive anyway.

Any hints welcome.

agentx · 03-25-2009, 09:26 AM

why is that the drive cannot be formatted as HFS+ ?

I presume it comes as a NTFS fprmated drive, so format it with a PC to FAT32 then plugin to a mac and format to HFS+ problem solved.....as far as i can see.

With some third party mac programs you should be able to do this on a MAC too.

trevor · 03-25-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:


	I read however that it can`t be formatted in HFS+. Only FAT32 and NTFS.

I agree with agentx. There's no way that a drive could be blocked from being formatted in HFS+. The statement is meaningless. Whoever told you that a Seagate FreeAgent drive cannot be formatted in HFS+ doesn't know what they are talking about.

If the USB version is cheaper and adequate for your needs, buy it and format it as HFS+.

Trevor

agentx · 03-25-2009, 01:22 PM

Also USB is totally fine for backup purposes/day to day use etc, I like firewire but i do audio/video stuff with my drives and like the fact i can chain drives together.

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentx


	why is that the drive cannot be formatted as HFS+ ? I presume it comes as a NTFS fprmated drive, so format it with a PC to FAT32 then plugin to a mac and format to HFS+ problem solved.....as far as i can see. With some third party mac programs you should be able to do this on a MAC too.

Negative - unfortunately.

It is the Seagate Free Agent Desk ST310005FDD2E1-RK 1 TB HDD.
The "Mac Edition" with Firewire 800 is 30% more expensive and I don`t need the extra speed for monthly backups.
(I also do daily and weekly backups on seperate drives)

I think the inability to be used in HFS+ format might have to do with the controller. I admit that I got this information (that it is not possible from a user -a buyer-comment on a website.

The official site`s compatibility list doesn`t list Macs:
Compatibility
* Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Ultimate, or Business Service Pack-1
* Windows XP Home, Professional, Media Center Edition Service Pack-2
* Windows XP/Vista
* USB 2.0 Port
http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/h...ree-Agent.html

This deals with problems when trying to HFS+ format a FAT32 formatted drive but it does not mention if it applies to the FreeAgent Desk
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/cr...491&NewLang=en

Mikey-San · 03-28-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostly harmless


	Negative - unfortunately.

What does this mean? You aren't making any sense.

It will mount as a block storage device, like any other external hard drive, and Disk Utility will be able to erase and reformat it as HFS+ Journaled.

agentx · 03-28-2009, 05:39 AM

I dont understand, "negative - unfortunately"
Where are you getting this information that you cant use drive ?
What OS and machine are you using ?

You should be able to use drive if you can format it in FAT32 or HFS+ ???

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 06:23 AM

Interesting:

http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/...thread.id=5801

The user bought the exact same model and can`t format it to HFS+

I have also contacted the customer service (of Seagate). I`ll let you know if they reply.

agentx · 03-28-2009, 06:52 AM

mmm very strange, i am perplexed if this i true.

I think that they are probably not a pro user and still think it is the fact that you cannot format a NTFS formatted disk on a mac without third party program.???

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentx


	mmm very strange, i am perplexed if this i true. I think that they are probably not a pro user and still think it is the fact that you cannot format a NTFS formatted disk on a mac without third party program.???

Could be. But I think it is also possible that the controller prevents HFS+ format -maybe unintentionally (I am not accusing Seagate of doing this on purpose).

I want to make sure *before* I buy the wrong product.

And of course, I want to know -that was my initial question- if there would be a workaround of using TrueCrypt or a sparseimage to use HFS+ on that FAT32-formatted drive.

trevor · 03-28-2009, 11:14 AM

I note that the feature list on Seagate's website for the FreeAgent Desk mentions encryption, but the feature list for the FreeAgent Desk Mac does not. So, perhaps what is happening is that the Seagate FreeAgent Desk is NOT compliant with the USB Mass Storage spec, in order for the encryption to take place in firmware. (This is purely a guess as to what Seagate might be doing and thinking.) The FreeAgent Desk Mac doesn't encrypt, but complies with the spec.

Non-compliance with the spec is the only way that I can think of that the controller could block you from formatting a drive to whatever file system you could possibly wish for.

It's also something that would, to my mind, completely rule out a drive from consideration for purchase. Encryption can be done quite nicely in software, thank you very much, and if a drive doesn't even comply with the USB (or FireWire) Mass Storage class, then I don't want to buy it.

Trevor

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor


	I note that the feature list on Seagate's website for the FreeAgent Desk mentions encryption, but the feature list for the FreeAgent Desk Mac does not. So, perhaps what is happening is that the Seagate FreeAgent Desk is NOT compliant with the USB Mass Storage spec, in order for the encryption to take place in firmware. (This is purely a guess as to what Seagate might be doing and thinking.) The FreeAgent Desk Mac doesn't encrypt, but complies with the spec. Non-compliance with the spec is the only way that I can think of that the controller could block you from formatting a drive to whatever file system you could possibly wish for. It's also something that would, to my mind, completely rule out a drive from consideration for purchase. Encryption can be done quite nicely in software, thank you very much, and if a drive doesn't even comply with the USB (or FireWire) Mass Storage class, then I don't want to buy it. Trevor

Good point. But I am not going to buy another WD drive which is the only option in the 100€ price range. Bad personal experience and many many reports of failure for their external drives.
The one that failed on me was internal. And I got another WD drive that recently didn`t display a few folders` contents until I dis- and re-connected it. Not trustworthy from my subjective standpoint.
I also got Samsung drives.
So now I am looking for a Seagate. FreeAgent Desk is 100€, FreeAgent Mac is 130€. Both 1TB. Obvious why I am considering the one that is more affordable.
With any other combination I considered, I would be paying over 130€.

If I can use FAT32 formatted drive in the way discribed, then I might buy the less costly alternative.

trevor · 03-28-2009, 11:59 AM

What capacity are you looking for? I'm guessing that there are lots of other options in the 100 Euro price range. 100 Euros is 133 USD as I write this, and for $133 I can easily get a 500 GB external case with a Hitachi drive inside (my preferred brand, as they tend to run cooler and quieter than others, and along with Seagate tend to be the fastest or second fastest).

If you're getting a 750 GB or 1 TB external drive for 100 Euros, that might take me more looking to find, but still might be possible.

Remember, lots of companies make external hard drive cases. You are NOT limited to those companies that make the internal drives, i.e. Western Digital, Seagate/Maxtor, Hitachi, Samsung.

Trevor

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor


	What capacity are you looking for? I'm guessing that there are lots of other options in the 100 Euro price range. 100 Euros is 133 USD as I write this, and for $133 I can easily get a 500 GB external case with a Hitachi drive inside (my preferred brand, as they tend to run cooler and quieter than others, and along with Seagate tend to be the fastest or second fastest). If you're getting a 750 GB or 1 TB external drive for 100 Euros, that might take me more looking to find, but still might be possible. Remember, lots of companies make external hard drive cases. You are NOT limited to those companies that make the internal drives, i.e. Western Digital, Seagate/Maxtor, Hitachi, Samsung. Trevor

1 TB.

For my other external drives I have always bought cases (Onnto & MacPower Pleiades) and the harddrives seperately.
But I can`t get under 130€ with this method.

There is TEAC and Fujitsu that offer 100€ 1TB external drives but those don`t seem to be good choices. One has no on/off switch and I forgot about the other one.
I always want to know exactly which drive will be inside.

As I wrote: I am currently not happy buying another WD drive.
Seagate had bad news with harddrives failing because of the firmware.
It is the exact models that they use in the FreeAgent range but they had a while to fix this and I am going to buy at amazon where I wouldn`t normally buy computer parts but amazon seem to be more likely to replace a dead drive if I can trust the comments (who knows what these are worth).
I was there when the IBM deskstar drives failed (and that is Hitachi now).
I never had a Samsung drive fail. I read that they fail on some people but I never had a problem personally.
But I would be paying 150-160€ because of seperate shipping for HDD and case if I choose another 5400UPM-Samsung 1TB (eco models).

For 100€ the Seagate FreeAgent Desk is the only one left on the list.
Everything else is 130€ and more.

trevor · 03-28-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:


	I was there when the IBM deskstar drives failed (and that is Hitachi now).

The problem with IBM Deskstar 75GXP drives is ancient ancient history now, and has no relation at all to current hard drives from Hitachi or anyone else, no matter the fact that Hitachi bought IBM's hard drive division. Avoiding Hitachi drives because of something that happened that long ago to IBM drives is nothing more than baseless superstition.

Trevor

mostly harmless · 03-28-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor


	The problem with IBM Deskstar 75GXP drives is ancient ancient history now, and has no relation at all to current hard drives from Hitachi or anyone else, no matter the fact that Hitachi bought IBM's hard drive division. Avoiding Hitachi drives because of something that happened that long ago to IBM drives is nothing more than baseless superstition. Trevor

I would consider a Hitachi drive nowadays. Redundancy is always a good idea.
I alsays get a little cautious when I see super-cheap offerings.

Cheech'i · 03-28-2009, 02:42 PM

In general, any hard drive, USB flash drive, SD Card, etc can be formatted to whatever you want. Out of the box Seagate's FreeAgent drives are FAT32.

Also, you can encrypt any of them with the appropriate software, I think what Trevor is pointing out is that they don't come with a hardware encryption key built into the firmware. This is probably due to them not wanting to write an OS X app to work with the hardware encryption, since I know Seagate has one for windows and their hardware encryption has been made to work in linux.

If that guy couldn't get it to work, he probably got a bad drive. I would recommend the WD anyway, but there are too many things that would have to be nonstandard for all of this to be the case.

trevor · 03-28-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me


	If you're getting a 750 GB or 1 TB external drive for 100 Euros, that might take me more looking to find, but still might be possible.

OK, with a little looking, I found 1 TB Hitachi drive and an external case for around 100 Euros. As a bonus (I know that this is not a requirement for you), the case uses FireWire 400, which is significantly faster in the real world than USB.

The drive is a 1 TB Hitachi 7K1000.B, available here for $89.99 USD.

The case is an OWC Neptune FW400 case which accepts SATA drives, available here for $39.99 USD.

$89.99 + $39.99 = $129.98 USD. Convert that to Euros at the current exchange rate, and you get 97.766 EUR, or around 100 Euros.

Now, if you get that exact combination, the shipping from the US may put you over the top of your target, but this was just an example of how to get a good quality drive + case combination for a nice low price, without buying from WD, Maxtor/Seagate, or another company that makes both the internal drive and the case and sells them together.

Trevor

mostly harmless · 03-29-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor


	OK, with a little looking, I found 1 TB Hitachi drive and an external case for around 100 Euros. As a bonus (I know that this is not a requirement for you), the case uses FireWire 400, which is significantly faster in the real world than USB. The drive is a 1 TB Hitachi 7K1000.B, available here for $89.99 USD. The case is an OWC Neptune FW400 case which accepts SATA drives, available here for $39.99 USD. $89.99 + $39.99 = $129.98 USD. Convert that to Euros at the current exchange rate, and you get 97.766 EUR, or around 100 Euros. Now, if you get that exact combination, the shipping from the US may put you over the top of your target, but this was just an example of how to get a good quality drive + case combination for a nice low price, without buying from WD, Maxtor/Seagate, or another company that makes both the internal drive and the case and sells them together. Trevor

The € price always includes 19% sales tax.
I have not found any combination under 130€ except the WD which I don`t want and the Seagate that as far as I know only supports FAT32 and NTFS.

andyl · 05-30-2009, 10:16 AM

I own a Seagate FreeAgent USB and I can confirm that it does work on the mac and works quite well actually. The box says the drive is Windows only, but it easily reformats to HFS+ in Disk Utility. Unfortunately, I think some users might be getting lost in the reformat process because simply "erasing" the NTFS partition with an HFS+ partition doesn't work. You must create a new partition in the "Partition" tab instead.

The drive comes pre-formatted with a "Master Boot Record" partition map and an NTFS partition. In order to reformat the drive, you first have to go to the partition tab of disk copy, second, choose "1 Partition" (or more if you wish) from the "Volume Scheme:" menu, third, use the "options" button to change the partition map to either "GUID Partition Table" or "Apple Partition Map", Fourth choose "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" as your formate, last choose apply.

03-25-2009, 09:03 AM	#1
mostly harmless Triple-A Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 99	Seagate FAT32 HD for Mac backups w/ striped DMG sparse image or TrueCrypt? I would like to buy another backup hard drive. The 1TB FreeAgent Desk USB2.0 drive from Seagate is 30% less expensive than the Mac edition with Firewire 800. Since I would use it for monthly backups, USB would be OK. I read however that it can`t be formatted in HFS+. Only FAT32 and NTFS. I could use a DMG disk image but FAT32 can`t deal with files larger than 4GB. So would it be possible to create a striped sparse image on this FAT32-formatted external hard drive? Is there any program that can create striped sparse images or do I have to use the terminal? An alternative might be TrueCrypt which can encrypt a complete volume. However I don`t know if in this case OS X would see a volume that could be formatted in HFS+. I think it might be but I just don`t know. I also don`t know how robust this feature of TrueCrypt is. Maybe this also depends on the platform. A disk image would be OK since I was considering encryption for this drive anyway. Any hints welcome.

03-25-2009, 01:22 PM	#4
agentx Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 4,123	Also USB is totally fine for backup purposes/day to day use etc, I like firewire but i do audio/video stuff with my drives and like the fact i can chain drives together. Last edited by agentx; 03-25-2009 at 01:30 PM.

03-28-2009, 06:23 AM	#8
mostly harmless Triple-A Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 99	Interesting: http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/...thread.id=5801 The user bought the exact same model and can`t format it to HFS+ I have also contacted the customer service (of Seagate). I`ll let you know if they reply. Last edited by mostly harmless; 03-28-2009 at 06:25 AM.

03-28-2009, 11:14 AM	#11
trevor Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boulder, CO USA Posts: 19,854	I note that the feature list on Seagate's website for the FreeAgent Desk mentions encryption, but the feature list for the FreeAgent Desk Mac does not. So, perhaps what is happening is that the Seagate FreeAgent Desk is NOT compliant with the USB Mass Storage spec, in order for the encryption to take place in firmware. (This is purely a guess as to what Seagate might be doing and thinking.) The FreeAgent Desk Mac doesn't encrypt, but complies with the spec. Non-compliance with the spec is the only way that I can think of that the controller could block you from formatting a drive to whatever file system you could possibly wish for. It's also something that would, to my mind, completely rule out a drive from consideration for purchase. Encryption can be done quite nicely in software, thank you very much, and if a drive doesn't even comply with the USB (or FireWire) Mass Storage class, then I don't want to buy it. Trevor __________________ How to ask questions the smart way \| Pssst. Wanna play some FuMafia?

03-28-2009, 11:59 AM	#13
trevor Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boulder, CO USA Posts: 19,854	What capacity are you looking for? I'm guessing that there are lots of other options in the 100 Euro price range. 100 Euros is 133 USD as I write this, and for $133 I can easily get a 500 GB external case with a Hitachi drive inside (my preferred brand, as they tend to run cooler and quieter than others, and along with Seagate tend to be the fastest or second fastest). If you're getting a 750 GB or 1 TB external drive for 100 Euros, that might take me more looking to find, but still might be possible. Remember, lots of companies make external hard drive cases. You are NOT limited to those companies that make the internal drives, i.e. Western Digital, Seagate/Maxtor, Hitachi, Samsung. Trevor __________________ How to ask questions the smart way \| Pssst. Wanna play some FuMafia?

03-25-2009, 09:26 AM	#2
agentx Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 4,123	why is that the drive cannot be formatted as HFS+ ? I presume it comes as a NTFS fprmated drive, so format it with a PC to FAT32 then plugin to a mac and format to HFS+ problem solved.....as far as i can see. With some third party mac programs you should be able to do this on a MAC too.

03-28-2009, 05:39 AM	#7
agentx Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 4,123	I dont understand, "negative - unfortunately" Where are you getting this information that you cant use drive ? What OS and machine are you using ? You should be able to use drive if you can format it in FAT32 or HFS+ ???

03-28-2009, 06:52 AM	#9
agentx Hall of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 4,123	mmm very strange, i am perplexed if this i true. I think that they are probably not a pro user and still think it is the fact that you cannot format a NTFS formatted disk on a mac without third party program.???

03-28-2009, 02:42 PM	#17
Cheech'i Major Leaguer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 432	In general, any hard drive, USB flash drive, SD Card, etc can be formatted to whatever you want. Out of the box Seagate's FreeAgent drives are FAT32. Also, you can encrypt any of them with the appropriate software, I think what Trevor is pointing out is that they don't come with a hardware encryption key built into the firmware. This is probably due to them not wanting to write an OS X app to work with the hardware encryption, since I know Seagate has one for windows and their hardware encryption has been made to work in linux. If that guy couldn't get it to work, he probably got a bad drive. I would recommend the WD anyway, but there are too many things that would have to be nonstandard for all of this to be the case. __________________ Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel is you.

05-30-2009, 10:16 AM	#20
andyl Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1	I own a Seagate FreeAgent USB and I can confirm that it does work on the mac and works quite well actually. The box says the drive is Windows only, but it easily reformats to HFS+ in Disk Utility. Unfortunately, I think some users might be getting lost in the reformat process because simply "erasing" the NTFS partition with an HFS+ partition doesn't work. You must create a new partition in the "Partition" tab instead. The drive comes pre-formatted with a "Master Boot Record" partition map and an NTFS partition. In order to reformat the drive, you first have to go to the partition tab of disk copy, second, choose "1 Partition" (or more if you wish) from the "Volume Scheme:" menu, third, use the "options" button to change the partition map to either "GUID Partition Table" or "Apple Partition Map", Fourth choose "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" as your formate, last choose apply.