Can I run a Wifi internet network, as well as a closed personal network?

[bkpr]

Hey all. I'm wondering is I can speed up my file transfers 'tween macs at home.

I have AT&T U-Verse net connection at home, but the router they provide (and is apparently necessary for their service) is one generation slower than my Macs (G vs N I think). This makes file sharing via the home network slow.

I have a Mac Mini media server on 24/7, and was wondering if I could create some sort of closed network only for file transfers between the Macs in the house, but also use the AT&T router's wifi network for internet. The idea being the Mac Mini would broadcast a separate network I could manually connect to when I wanted to transfer large files, screen share etc.

I remember creating a computer-to-computer network years ago but I think it was between two specific Macs only?

Appreciate any advice/thoughts!
Thanks (and Happy New Year!)

[cpragman]

Why not provide your own wifi (ex., AirPort Extreme base station) and connect it by cable to your AT&T router?

[bkpr]

Thanks for your reply. How would this work? Seeing it's plugged into the AT&T router, won't that automatically reduce the N speed to the lowest common denominator?

I have an Airport Extreme base station, as well as modern modem/router from my previous location (can't remember whether it's a Netgear or D-Link one). I read a little about trying to replace the AT&T unit with something else recently on the AT&T forums and elsewhere, and that seemed like a dead end.

Could I set up the Airport Extreme base station on it's own — not connected to the AT&T unit — and switch to that wifi network for transfers? The downside here is I'd have to manually change both Macs involved in the transfer to the AEBS network > transfer files > reconnect to the AT&T network for internet. Ideally I'd have both available at the same time so I wouldn't be stranded while transferring files.

[anthlover]

The answer to all is basically yes and much depends on your needs and layout of your environment. The Internet service provider switch/router generally has to be used for the backbone connection to the internet, but not its wireless connection that can be shut off or used as a second SSID.

Some Internet providers allow you (technically) to eliminate their device altogether, others not. They might also at your request replace update their router if you tell them its to slow. Many providers now provide at least Dual Band N.

You could use Wired and wireless. Wired Only. Multiple Wireless Routers, Multiple switches which routers have built in. We would need to know more to make more specific suggestions. Using Multiple make sense if you can not cover the place well with one Router. In Ideal conditions the two or more routers are separated physically each covering an area of the environment and are connected together by ethernet.

Last but not least Macs Ethernet ports (sans the air) have auto configuring ports that allow you to connect any two computers together directly as if you were connecting them via a switch.

[bkpr]

Hi anthlover. Unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like you're suggesting a way to extend my AT&T wifi network range? If so that's not what I'm after.

My setup is the Mac Mini which is operating 24/7. This Mac Mini has wifi switched off currently because it get a direct line into the AT&T router for internet. I have three other macs in the house which I often transfer files to and from, as well as from the Mac Mini media server. These other macs use Wifi to connect to the AT&T network, and to see the other macs.* All macs are running the latest version of Lion (not Mountain Lion).

*Now that I think of it, does Bonjour still work/run on Lion? Wasn't this a computer-to-computer connection between macs using their Wifi antennas directly? Could I use this, or something similar, to essentially bypass the AT&T router for file transfers?

[anthlover]

I am not speaking strictly of extending. I am saying that without knowing the exact layout of your place we would be making suggestions that are not logical.

As a side note and not directly related you might want to where possible go to Mountain Lion.

** You are I believe confounding the physical infrastructure (wifi, Ethernet and multiples of either) with the software connectivity tech (Network sharing, Airdrop, Bonjour, Connect to Server/Computer, etc). The physical is the thing that has to be figured out, almost any of the software tech would work interchangeably and is not the issue.

In the simplest/fastest route you would run all to a gig switch in one room and be done and then connect via drive shares or similar.

As you pointed at your currently not satisfied with the speed your getting over wifi. So first thing to do is see if you can get AT&T to replace the router with a new one which would likely be faster.

Beyond that you need to provide us or someone the layout of the environment so that good suggestions can be made. Is all Wired connections remotely possible? Is a mixture of more wired connections and wireless possible? Note as I mentioned above multiple routers or switches can be employed.

It Sounds like your "network closet" is in one room near the mini and the AT&T router/switch. Where is everything else space wise, how far? Different floors? Walls made of what? etc.

[bkpr]

Ok, I see what you mean. It's likely I am mixing up hardware and technologies/software — I understand much of it, but am not super-savvy with networking.

The Mac Mini is connected to the AT&T router with an ethernet cable and is essentially in the centre of our house. It's a three-floor town house, with not much in the way between floors other than floorboards. There aren't really any 'walls' between the macs, just directly below or directly above (or in the same room) as the wifi spot. The rooms are ~30-40 feet across.

For the record, I have a strong connection to the network (full bars in the wifi menubar icon) on each other mac anywhere in the house. Also for the record, I haven't contacted AT&T yet, but from what I've read online they can't/won't provide a faster modem/router. I agree if they could my problem would be solved, but I was hoping to try something myself before I have one of their guys potentially ome out and fiddle with anything.

Is your suggestion to go with Mountain Lion at all networking-related? The only reason I haven't upgraded is I try not to muck about with my work machine unless necessary (or bored , but I've just passed a busy period in my life with work and moving to the US so I'll probably consider the upgrade once I do a bit more research on my installed applications and their performance.

[benwiggy]

The AT&T router/modem has two components: the hardware that deals with the connection to AT&T, and the bit that networks your devices. That network bit has both Ethernet and wireless elements.
There's nothing to stop you getting another wireless router, plugging it into an Ethernet socket on your AT&T box, and then connecting wirelessly to the new box.
Thus:
Computers >Wifi> New Wireless box >Ethernet> AT&T modem >phone line> Internet.

[bkpr]

Ahh, I see. So I'll be essentially stopping the wifi part of the AT&T router, instead using the new wireless box as the wifi signal. Seeing the new wifi box is the faster spec, all macs will use this for faster transfers, and use the same wifi to suck down the internet.

Cool, thanks for your help. I'll give this a crack.

[anthlover]

Yes that is what I have been saying that one can add their own Wifi Router to the AT&T one via the Ethernet connection on the ATT router. I am very fond of the Apple Airport Extremes but there are many.

That said you do no have to have AT&T muck with your stuff. Normally swapping out ISP hardware aka AT&T hardware is just that a swap that they could send you in the mail or if they provide service trough their retail locations that way.

I would still call them and ask: "I am concerned about security and also about the coverage I am getting from your router." A new device (the old one you have must be at least a few years old to be G) is going to provide better security, speed, and range.

Generally Wifi does not work as well Up and Down versus side to side, nature of the way the signal travels.

You have not commented on the possibility of using ethernet wiring, but I will presume it is not feasible to make any additional connections that way or at least in a way that you or others do not find unsightly.

I personally live in Apartment that is wired for Ethernet. I use a mix of wired connections and 3 wifi Routers.

1) I have a Verizon Fios wifi router/internet appliance (best USA ISP in terms of speed if you have an option [do not discount the possibility of switching, one of the easiest ways to get new equipment, switch or threaten to switch]).

2) I also have An Airport Extreme simultaneous Dual band and 3) Airport Express


Yes one option is to turn off wifi on the AT&T router and use your own. If they were far enough apart you could use the extend or have two SSIDs. There are always lots of options. You have made it clear that even over the G router you show a lot of signal strength. There could still be a lot of interference and slow transfer speeds.

?S What AT&T Router is it? How big are the files you want to transfer.

If your going to get a router and you get a non Apple one. Look for something with simultaneous Dual band with a Gig switch and read user and pro reviews carefully on Amazon and new egg, etc.

[mclbruce]

Here's what I suggest:
1. Go into the AT&T U-Verse router and turn off the WiFi. I believe you can do this from a web browser on the Mac mini while it is connected to the router by Ethernet.
2. Connect your Airport Extreme Base Station to the U-Verse router via Ethernet.
3. Make sure the WiFi on the AEBS is working, giving access to the web.
4. Connect everything to the AEBS, including the Mac mini, either by Ethernet or WiFi.

[bkpr]

Thanks for the advice! Is there a reason you suggest connecting the Mac Mini (ethernet) to the AEBS, and not to the AT&T router? Just for simplicity?

[anthlover]

There is not likely to be any advantage of using the Apple Ethernet ports over the AT&T ones since your are likely only going to be daisy chaining off the AT&T and have to run at the speed of the AT&T router. Without providing the model of AT&T router we are of course in the dark. The Apple router is Gig, the AT&T is ?. How many ports does the AT&T one have?

IF the Apple router could completely replace the AT&T one there probably would be an advantage.

[bkpr]

The AT&T modem/router is: 2Wire 3801HGV (PDF spec sheet)
For the record, the internet speed is fine — much better than what I was used to in Malaysia. It's the file transfer speed I'm concerned about. AT&T is the only company I've used where I must use their hardware for internet.

[mclbruce]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkpr Thanks for the advice! Is there a reason you suggest connecting the Mac Mini (ethernet) to the AEBS, and not to the AT&T router? Just for simplicity?

To make sure that the Mini is getting it's IP address from the AEBS, just like the WiFi computers are. Otherwise your WiFi computers might not see the mini.

[anthlover]

So you might still be able to use only the AEBS if the internet uplink is Ethernet then you would not need the AT&T. The Apple router is Gig E-net and N 2.4/5ghz. The AT&T switch is G and 100. If you can not dump the AT&T router, If all your Ethernet clients could be on the Apple switch at least and the internet uplink provided by just AT&T then you would gain an advantage of faster Ethernet, and if you turn off wifi on AT&T if the AT&T can not be eliminated all together you would also gain faster Wifi.

[bkpr]

Thanks again for everyone's input. This afternoon I set up the AEBS in conjunction with the AT&T router and I've improved my situation. I've connected the AEBS to the AT&T router via ethernet cable and turned off the AT&T wifi signal completely. The AEBS is the only wifi network now. I've also connected the Mini to the AEBS via ethernet to get a direct line as all three boxes sit next to each other. All Macs can see each other without issues.

File transfer speed improvement example: copying one 730mb file (avi) from a media drive hooked up to the Mac Mini (with FW800)
- Old setup = ~12 minutes
- New setup = 3½ minutes, almost 4x speed

[anthlover]

Glad our suggestions helped.