need some purchase advice for long-term pictures backup

[marcnyc]

Thanks for all your advice...
I am going to keep using CrashPlan, but in the meantime I still need to buy two new drives for my local storage and backup.
I am currently undecided between two solutions (which seem to cost exactly the same $375-379 per drive):

1. two of these 4Tb naked drives with dock:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Newer...ard_Drive_Dock
PROs:
- I can buy more drives when I run out of space at $269 for 4Tb (or however much cheaper it will be when I need more space)
- I can juggle as many drives with two docks and they take up less physical space to store and only 2 more walmart plugs
CONs:
- Hard drives are more fragile, unprotected and will get dusty

2. two of these 4Tb drives in enclosure:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MSQ7S40TB64/
PROs:
- they'll fit nicely over my other MiniStack drive and stack up nicely
- drives are protected
CONs:
- if I need more drives I need more space and more messy walmart adapters

Which direction should I go?
I am undecided

[anthlover]

They would both work. Not seen opinions on reliability of dock style. There are of course other options. I think of the two the Mini is a better choice. And both macsales others make cases with and without drives.

I would argue that if you have a current mac with USB 3 I would not bother with a quad interface. USB 3 is faster then anything but Thunderbolt. And USB2/3 is the most ubiquitous interface out there. If you do not have USB 3 then a multi interface case makes more sense.


Macsales is good. Macgurus is also very good. They specialize in Video and Audio industry but they also have single drives and enclosures. They tend to concentrate on things meant to last.

http://www.macgurus.com

[acme.mail.order]

Quote: Originally Posted by marcnyc 1. two of these 4Tb naked drives with dock: CONs: - Hard drives are more fragile, unprotected and will get dusty

Yep, and the connectors are designed with the assumption that they get assembled once. Maybe twice. Docks are really meant for IT departments who need to image dozens of drives in a day, not for your purposes. Notice there is a difference between SATA connectors and E-SATA connectors - the latter is designed for a lot more plug cycles.

Option 3:

Get several identical external drives (or cases) and use them in rotation. That way you only need one set of cables on the desk. I'm partial to the LaCie Quadra series.

There is a side argument here for getting drives from different makers. Cases are readily replaceable

[anthlover]

Yeah Sata interfaces are pretty good compared to pata and SCCI of old but not really meant for abuse either. Those docs look kind of tippy too.

I can not really vote for Lace because they do not use that I am aware of oxford chipset for the Firewire which can be a big problem for reliability.

I agree that the Macsales mini or almost any good quality case would work fine. Many drive cases are stackable if that is the Goal.

What Mac Mini do you have? Model Year?

[marcnyc]

I don't have a Mac mini. I have a MBP with FW and USB2, which is why I am considering a Quad interface. I also do audio and FW800 is much faster than USB2 so for now I am using FW800.

I do have a OWC miniStack which is why stack-ability was a pro to me.

The major PRO I didn't spell out for the docks is that if I upgrade to a new MBP with USB3 I can then still use these docs and still buy new hard drives that will be cheaper but will work with the same docks.

Really undecided...

[anthlover]

Understood. Well looking over the Dock and mini specs and contrary to what I would have thought the Dock has an Oxford chipset for the Firewire, looks like the mini does not. Most of the cases Macsales sells use Oxford chipsets for the firewire. So that is a major point in the favor of the Dock.

Good Luck with what you decide.

[marcnyc]

that's a good point cause I'll be using FireWire for sure

[anthlover]

Non Oxford can lead to a lot of tears and aggravation (data loss, corruption, etc). Lacie, Segate, WD and many minor brand cases sell non oxford who do not specify.

Lacie is a good brand but I have some issues with their Quad interface on FW and had to switch back to USB2 a big let down.

I switched to Macsales who are one of the few that sell almost exclusively oxford firewire chipsets in their cases. They have good support too.

Macgurus is pretty also amazing. I also highly recommend them, though their focus is more on raid. They do carry drives and individual cases.

You seem wedded to easy swapping of drives into case/ or docs. For the record its only usually a 4 to 8 screws and some sort of clam shell affair to swap a drive into a full case.

The dock your considering got rave reviews (mostly in its prior incarnation prior to USB3). At least one mentioned it not being for a permanent use.

I really can see you gong wrong if your goal is low cost (with the dock). Most non raid cases Macsales sells are under $80.


Here is info at least on the drives that macgurus sells and recommends at least for reference, they strive towards once that have that been the most reliable.

http://macgurus.com/store/ecom-catshow/satadrives.html

As you can there seems to be a big premium between the 3 and 4 TB sizes so unless your data set is over 3TB you might want to keep to the smaller size.

[marcnyc]

strange that there is such a big premium between 3Tb and 4Tb, there isn't such a big difference between the sizes at OWC:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ministack
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Newer...ard_Drive_Dock

[DeltaMac]

If you check at other companies that sell the bare hard drives -
Newegg has the identical Seagate 3TB at about $160
And the HGST 4TB for about $310
Remember, those are both without external cases, and OWC doesn't tell you what brand of drive is included in the cases. Going by that, the OWC 3TB ministack looks a little high, and the 4TB ministack looks to me to be a good deal.
I would also say that the MacGurus price is not too far off, by current prices. You do have to remember to compare brands to models (and there's lots of hard drive models from each brand.)

Do you think hard drive prices will EVER return to pre-flood levels, with lots of 1TB drives for less than $60?

[marcnyc]

so you are saying that to keep the price of the ministack and the dock+drive combo that low they put a much inferior drive in the 4Tb option compared to their 3Tb option?

[DeltaMac]

Wow - No, I didn't say that at all...

You were commenting on the price jump from 3TB to 4 TB, so I was demonstrating that there's other factors involved - some of that is the different price structures for different brands - or maybe nothing more than a reduced price for the holiday.
OWC may tell you what exact brands of hard drive are included with each case (which may change from time to time) That information is not provided at their web site, but their tech support is pretty good, and they may be able to tell you what is included, if you call and ask.

[marcnyc]

I must have misread... I don't see a big price jump from 3 to 4Tb on OWC but I do see it on macgurus

[mnewman]

Sorry for the intrusion.

[marcnyc]

yes thank you but I am not interested in the philosophical conversation, just the technical

[anthlover]

Do not know it does seem like the price delta was larger at Macgurus. Both companies also do not seem to sell more then one 4GB model and only certain 3GB model so it is a little harder to make comparisons. None the less Seems like a good drive.

It is true that macsales does not always specify which drive but you can order separate, in the case of the dock with the oxford chipset there is not even assembly to speak of, the mini does not come with the oxford.

[sliberty]

I am a big fan of NAS devices. I have three of them. Each has two mirrored drives. I use them for different purposes. But if you had one for Photos, you wouldn't have to manage the duplicate copies - the NAS RAID does that for you. And by hanging it on the network, you avoid port obsolescence. Just make sure that you buy a NAS that supports Gigabit Ethernet. Even if your MBP doesn't, your next computer will. of course your router/hub/etc. also has to support Gigabit. The never ending upgrade path ....

[acme.mail.order]

The only thing a RAID mirror protects against is drive failure. Accidental delete and directory corruption are not covered and the recovery is harder.

Why do you assume that ethernet is immune from port obsolescence?

[anthlover]

Agreed on all fronts, regarding NAS/raid not being the solution to this particular problem. Note. Macs have Had Gig Ethernet for a very long time.

Please note that were not disagreeing with RAID or NAS serving a purpose but if you read the thread carefully the OP is looking for both lowest cost and avoiding obsolesce which can only be had in the digital realm by a combination of transcoding and copying over time from old to new in digital form.

Copying data from older to newer technology both file formats and data storage/port formats. It is a maintenance job.

The only format that is much more full proof and very expensive is to make high quality prints and negatives and store them carefully. Doing that for 1000s or even 10,000 of photos is of course even more expensive.

I can attest also to the horror of recovering data from RAID arrays. I have done so recently for my father. It was not even that out of date. OSX 10.4, G5 Power Macs, First Gen Sata array, corruption, out of date drivers, Lost Cables, failed drives in the arrays, old versions of Final Cut (It was all Circa 2003-2004 stuff aprox). It took a lot of effort. I had to get the missing parts, get the old system running again, both the macpro and the array. I was able to to bring the data back on line with Antique hardware and transfer redundantly to non raided separate drives.

I should mention that macgurus was very generous with their time guiding me to recovering the data from their arrays.

I have been moving Digital data along now personally almost 30 years. The original networks were many thin net, Appletalk, token ring, modems, etc , etc, on drive types, data storage formats etc.