Entourage database swapping has no effect?

[cosmocanuck]

Hi! I was trying to help a friend today who lost three years of emails out of Entourage on or about July 23rd. I ran into some weird behaviour trying to revert to a backup and am wondering if a) I am suffering from a major misunderstanding of how the Database works, or b) I have lost my mind.

She was doing Time Machine backups since the start of the year, so I had a look at the old, pre-calamity versions of the Database file in her Microsoft User Data/Office 2008 Identities/Main Identity folder. They were - suspiciously - all exactly the same size going back to the earliest backups on the TM disk. Still, I tried swapping an old backup of the file into the Main Identity folder and starting Entourage. The missing 3 years did not appear (didn't really expect them to) but the current contents of her inbox, with messages from today and several days back, were still there!

I'd have expected to only see emails up to the date of the Database file I was opening.

There were two other folders parallel to the Main Identity folder, one of which was called "Susan 2010" and had a Database file nearly double the size of her current one (over 6 GB vs. 3 GB). I swapped this one into Main Identity (renaming the current one and calling the old and larger one just "Database"). I double clicked it to start Entourage. And... it appeared to be exactly the same thing, no missing emails, and the current inbox contents!

HOW is this possible? Why aren't I seeing old emails at least, not the new ones, when I start from an old Database?

I'm tempted to rebuild the DB using the built-in Entourage tool but have read enough comments about it causing havoc of its own. (I would save the current DB file just in case, but the above behavior makes me wonder if Entourage is likely to just do its own thing regardless, and for all I know might vaporize more perefectly good emails.)

But that 6+ GB Database file is taunting me with the possibility that it contains the missing emails.

Can anyone suggest a course of action?

Thanks!

[acme.mail.order]

I'm not an Entourage user, but it sounds like you are looking at cached data. Did you explore the ~/Library/Caches folder and ~/Library/Application Support for anything Entourage-ish?

And also try creating a completely new user for the recovery - you can then wipe it clean if one experiment isn't successful.

[cosmocanuck]

Thanks, that's definitely something for me to look into! As for the new user idea - I'm assuming I'd create it, then attempt to import the emails from that large backup file?

[acme.mail.order]

You'd create it, copy in the backup of your choice, then run Entourage and see what happens.

[mclbruce]

Start up Entourage with the option key held down. That should give you a choice of what identity to start up with. Perhaps you are not currently starting up from Main Identity or Susan 2010.

[cosmocanuck]

Thanks all for the advice. I did indeed use "Switch Identities" to gain access to the lost emails. Alas, I'm also running into database errors at every turn when I attempt to export and import emails to get the old and new ones in the same place. I've proceeded with importing everything into Apple Mail - the direction my friend wants to go anyway and one I recommend - but now even Mail doesn't see anything when it tries to import the Identity with all the missing emails. I'm rebuilding that database now in the hopes I can get the messages out of it into Apple Mail. Wish me luck... sigh............

[agentx]

Entourage is a beast of program when things go wrong.....and believe me at least it is a small database i.e. under 10GB.

Time machine generally would not backup the Database correctly unless certain procedures are followed. Which i am fairly sure would not have been.

What version of Entourage are you using ? (Version number needed)
What OS ?

You may have to do several restores of database to alternative destinations, rename them and then put them into Microsoft User Data (MUD) folder.

[cosmocanuck]

Agentx, an update: After initial, promising success, I've gone from one roadblock to the next on this one, with solutions appearing like a mirage and then fading into the mist.

By opening up the large database through a newly-created Identity, then running a database repair, I was able to again see all the missing three years' worth of email. That, sadly, was the easy part.

Then - since the database I was using for this Identity only went up to mid-July, I had to go through a bunch of hoops to get just the email since then into the same user identity. Much in the way of MS database errors and screwy behaviour. But finally I was able to do it.

But my goal being to get my friend out of this terrible program and into Apple Mail, my troubles continued. I tried to import the "complete" Entourage list into Apple Mail, but it only brought in emails from 2004 to 2007. Then stopped.

It seems Apple Mail doesn't like to import that many emails at once (over 12,000). My solution at first was to go to Entourage, move just one year's emails into a new Entourage folder, then drag it to the desktop, creating a .mbox file. Then I imported it into Mail. It worked! The end was in sight! But there's a reason I called this my solution "at first".

Then... Entourage dragging-and-dropping to create .mbox files JUST. STOPPED. WORKING.

2007 worked. 2008 worked. 2009... nothing. Either I couldn't drag at all, or I drag and nothing is created. I split 2009 into 2 halves to minimize size... neither of them worked either.

Maddening. First it works, now it doesn't. And I'm at the end of my rope with no apparent way to extract those more recent emails from Entourage into Mail.

I'm going to try a reboot of her machine, then will again create a new temporary Identity which may last long enough without bugs creeping in to let me finish the job...

sigh...

[agentx]

I know your pain I have managed 100s of machines over the years with Entourage. And had huge issues...some never resolved...but on a lighter note....This tool has been invaluable.
http://www.softhing.com/eeax.html
( need to choose the right version)

Now this might sound crazy but there is a version of entourage 2008 EWS v13
It is the "best" version of Ent. And has a better database rebuild system.
It is no use if this person uses exchange server 2003 as it is for exch 2007+

you need to be pragmatic and start fresh. Once DB in a ok-ish state use eeax.
It does a better job than import/export direct from Ent. and is more graceful on errors.

Good luck stick with it it is a long process.

[cosmocanuck]

Thanks agentx! I will give that tool a try if it can help me get emails out of Entourage and into Mail... I know she is running Entourage 08, not sure of the specific version, but I can't tell from the EEAX site what the difference is between 6.1.0 and 4.2.0? I'm assuming I should just use the latest one?

[agentx]

It all depends.....
Do they have intel mac if so get version 6.

If you upgrade to entourage WSE v13 then there is no going back to ent 2008 v12 as database format is not compatible.....but ews version is more robust if there is such a thing with huge monolithic databases.

Another option is to try and let outlook 2011 import the database and see what it can scavenge. Overall run all patches to get it up to date before trying an import.

[agentx]

Also when a database is not in great shape and you start moving items around you are in fact making things worse ;-)

I would certainly work on the 6GB file....rebuild it and try EEAX to do exports .
Then move the user onto IMAP with a large quota and say goodbye to 99% of issues.

[cosmocanuck]

Got it sorted, at last. A reboot of her machine reminded Entourage that it could indeed drag-and-drop .mbox files, so I was able to finish moving her email into folders, dragging out to .mbox's, and import it all into Apple Mail. *WHEW*. Apple Mail may have been less than perfect in its reluctance to import all the mail at once, but Entourage really was the cause of the nightmare here. Glad I've gotten my friend out of its evil clutches!

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and help!

[agentx]

Good to hear and goodbye Entourage ;-)