Leopard Corruption/Restore Options

[janess]

I am, hopefully, close to resolving the issue(s) that have paralyzed my internal hard drive and Leopard OS. Realizing that Terminal/fsck could not solve the problems related to my unmounted internal drive, I moved into a backup and recovery mode and now could really use some input related to Leopard restoration on my internal drive, with the goals being to: 1) try to preserve the original contents/settings on my internal drive as much as possible and 2) figure out whether the horrible problems I've been having are actually due to a hardware failure issue.

Here's what has most recently been accomplished (and, with great success so far):

1. I used DiskWarrior in scavenger mode as had been suggested in a previous thread (thank you, DeltaMac!). The results of that preview disk report were identical to the report that had been generated via the original, regular run of DiskWarrior (and posted to a previous thread). I did save a more detailed report from the last DW run, but I don't think that matters much now.

2. In Disk Utility, I created a new image of the DW preview disk and tried to migrate that image to my WD Passport external drive. I attempted to do this four times (twice as a read/write, once as a read only, and once as a compressed image). In each of the four attempts, after DU ran for about 2 hours each time and got about one-fifth of the way through the transfer, I would get the message "Unable to create DW Preview.dmg-input/output error".

3. I then remembered that I had a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner tucked away on my external Tiger drive, so I ran that program to try to transfer the DW preview disk to the Passport external drive. After running for 16 hours, that procedure was a success. For what it's worth, the strange high frequency beeps that I had mentioned in a previous thread were audible nearly nonstop during the data transfer (under the left side speaker grill near the ac power input plug). For anyone who might be interested, I read that CCC was able to complete the transfer where DU was not successful because it moves data in blocks rather than as files like Disk Utility.

4. CCC alerted me to 2 problems during the transfer and produced 2 error messages which were the following:

1) The first error occurred while trying to access:
"/Volumes/Mac HD 10.5/Users/Mac/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles/71oben1s.default/webappsstore.sqlite"

2) CCC encountered media errors during this backup.
The affected files and folders are listed below. Click on each item to determine the appropriate course of action.
volumes/mac hd 10.5/users/mac/library/applicationsupport/firefox/profiles/71ob
This file or folder is sitting on a bad section of hard disk media and is unrecoverable. Delete this item (i.e. in the Finder) and restore it from a known good backup, then try the backup task again.

The reason I bring this up is because, if I recall correctly, the computer freeze that caused my internal drive to become unmounted and inaccessible happened shortly after I had installed an upgraded version of TenFourFox browser which is a PPC-specific build of Firefox and uses Firefox settings, plugins, etc. I was running TenFourFox at the time of the computer freeze. TenFourFox runs a lot leaner and faster than FF on PPCs, but sometimes the developers release unstable versions and that could have been the problem.

5. The weirdest thing that I encountered after the CCC transfer (in a good way) was that, without partitioning, my Passport external drive showed up as a startup drive with System 10.5.8 which was the Leopard system version on my internal drive at the time of the freeze. The reason I say this is weird is because, when CCC first completed the transfer and was showing the drive as bootable, quite a few strange system-related folders showed up on the external drive. Rather than deal with them, I placed all of the transferred folders into a new folder, but then the drive was not showing as being bootable. When I opened the CCC volume folder, all of the strange folders were no longer visible. For some unknown reason, I decided to move all of the individual folders (apps, system, users, etc.) out of the folder I'd created and then the external drive showed up again as bootable and the contents looked pretty much the same as my internal drive had looked. Maybe this is logical to someone who knows better, but it seemed odd to me because the Passport drive was simply a storage device which I had never partitioned as a bootable drive.

So, now on my PB desktop, I have my Tiger external drive that I am booted from, my Passport external drive that is now apparently bootable with Leopard and also contains my Tiger drive backup, and the DW preview disk that contains the rebuilt contents of my unmounted internal drive. The DW preview disk is also showing up as a 10.5.8 bootable startup disk, but of course, that disk will disappear if I restart the PB (Catch-22/Brick Wall). I have not yet quit DW so I still have access to the preview disk in case I need it.

Finally, with all of the background info above (which, hopefully, might also assist some other folks if they ever run into a similar situation), I have a few questions that would really help to guide me for next steps. So far, I've had a really good outcome because of the great help and advice I've gotten on this Forum and also because I have been abundantly cautious in terms of the things I've done up to this point. My replacement Leopard disks are on track to arrive next Tues., so in the meantime, here are my questions:

1. Is there any danger in trying to reboot into Leopard from my external Passport drive to see what will happen? I've not yet restarted my PB (again, mostly, to keep the DW preview disk intact and on my desktop). Also, I'm wondering if there's a possibility that whatever files perhaps caused my internal drive problem might cause the same problem with my external drive. If anything happens to that drive before I get my internal drive reloaded with Leopard (or replaced if it is a truly failed drive), it would be a disaster because it is my only backup.

2. Related to the problematic Firefox files noted by CCC during the transfer to my Passport external drive, should I go in and delete any of the Firefox or TenFourFox files or just leave everything alone for now? Also, can the huge folder of "Rescued Items" from the DW disk transfer be deleted or do they serve some purpose just sitting there?

3. While the DW preview disk is on my desktop (and knowing now that is contains a good, working, bootable copy of my system, directory, and files), what would happen if I tried to Restore through Disk Utility from the DW preview disk (source) to the internal, unmounted drive (destination)? In theory, I think that should work, but in reality, I'm not so sure (especially since DU has not come through for me at all in Disk Repair or Image Transfer). Also, does the Restore function overwrite the contents of a drive or does it have to be erased via the check box provided? CCC does not give the option of the internal drive as a transfer destination because it is unmounted.

4. If I wait until I have Leopard disks to work with in a few days, is it worth trying an Archive and Install first before a full erase and clean install? If an Archive and Install can't execute for some reason, do the contents of the hard drive still remain intact and the same as before the Archive and Install was executed?

Thanks for any input/advice...

[DeltaMac]

I think your last question is the best, so will answer that first.
(Is it worth trying an Archive & Install first?) Yes.
(Do the contents ... remain intact if the Archive & Install can't execute for some reason?) Yes - maybe - depending on how far into the archive part you get. If the Archive & Install will finish without error, then you have a good chance. If not, the process can make the things considerably worse (can really mess up the directory)
All the more reason to be sure that you have a good backup (and it sounds like you do) before you do anything else.
I suspect the archive & install will not be successful, for reasons that I have already stated (your hard drive is likely failing)
The "I/O error" probably trumps everything.
What I envision as your best course of action.
Replace your hard drive with a new drive.
Boot to the Leopard installer, and format your new hard drive.
restore your backup to your new hard drive.
Reinstall (Archive & Install) Leopard on your new hard drive.
Notice the sequence of file transfer. Installing Leopard after the restore, means that the OS X install will make sure that all the various system files are properly installed.

[agentx]

I agree I/O errors is pointing to bad disk. Replace and restore from backup.

Overall this is where sometimes rsync can really help. I use it with the --ignore-errors flag. It does a good job of skipping I/O problems. Had to use it the other day on a failing disk and we recovered 99.99% of data just skipped a few files that were not important.

[janess]

Hi DeltaMac,

<<Replace your hard drive with a new drive.
Boot to the Leopard installer, and format your new hard drive.
restore your backup to your new hard drive.
Reinstall (Archive & Install) Leopard on your new hard drive.
Notice the sequence of file transfer. Installing Leopard after the restore, means that the OS X install will make sure that all the various system files are properly installed.>>

I understand what you're saying about getting a new hard drive if my internal drive is, indeed, a failed drive. I still would like to try what you've suggested with my existing internal drive first and see no harm in doing that unless I'm totally missing something. My Leopard disks have not been delivered yet, so I can't boot with that option right now.

I've read a bit about "I/O errors" after reading your comments and have come across examples that were software-related and, interestingly, involved Leopard and resulted in a hard drive not mounting. At any rate, although you could be right about the hard drive problem, I'd like to go ahead and erase and format my internal drive and then follow the procedure as you suggested. Before I do that, I have just a couple of questions:

1. I don't need to create any kind of partition on the empty hard drive, right? I'm guessing I'd just choose Mac OS Extended (journaled) and then do the "Zero Out Data" option you recommended.
2. I'm assuming that, unless the hard drive is toast, it should mount on the desktop after being erased, correct?
3. As far as restoring my data to the internal drive before I do an Archive and Install, would I do that through the Restore function in DU, by dragging folders manually, or by using CCC? As previously mentioned, my last run of CCC took 16 hours. I still have my DW rebuilt drive on my desktop and could just use that as the Source.
4. Does the "Rescued Files" folder from the Disk Warrior rebuild get moved over or can those files be discarded? I still don't understand the purpose of what's contained in that folder and it's huge.
5. Is there any merit to the concern I'd raised about the problematic Firefox files that were noted by CCC and should I be worried about moving Firefox/TenFourFox files over to the blank drive?

That's it, thanks again, and apologies if my questions seem overly basic, but I've never before done a drive erasure, system reinstall, etc.

[janess]

Hi agentx,

<<Overall this is where sometimes rsync can really help.>>

I've looked up rsync and see that it means remote sync via Terminal. My competency with Terminal is at the "cut and paste" level and nothing I tried helped with my internal drive problem. Thanks for weighing in though...

[DeltaMac]

1. Assuming the drive is OK, the zero all data, when complete, will leave you with a working partition.
2. Yes, it should mount
3. I would use the Restore function in Disk Utility, but CCC should also work.
4. A huge "Rescued Files" folder just means that you have a huge folder with lots of files that are not in their original location. You can search through those files for something identifiable - but in my experience, the files are usually generic parts of apps. You can search through those for various types of pictures, or sound files/fonts/etc. I've seen those folders with thousands of files, so all I can say is to look for files that you created, or files with names that YOU recognize. There's no easy way to do that. If you don't find much of anything that you recognize, then there's not much you can do.
Good chance that getting your backed up files restored, and OS X reinstalled will pretty much replace the Rescued files. You may need to reinstall other apps, that are not part of the OS X system. Once you have your Mac working OK again, you can probably trash that folder (or, if you don't feel comfortable with that, burn to a DVD to save it for later searching)
5. Problematic Firefox files appear to just be temp files. ignore, or better yet, trash those files. The message tells you where they are located.

[janess]

I think (hope) I am a step away from being able to do a reinstall of Leopard (if necessary) once I figure out the best way to change my internal drive from read-only to read-write. In the meantime, I have a couple of Leopard install and backup questions. I've never done any kind of an OS reinstall and am not too familiar yet with partitioning, creating bootable options, etc. So...

1. My WD Passport external drive is my backup drive. It basically contains the contents of my old Tiger drive and the internal Leopard drive which became troubled after a computer freeze. Not knowing any better, I did not initially set up the Passport drive with a bootable partition. The Passport drive has 235.1 GB available with 230.5GB available on one partition.

My question is this...
Is it possible to create a small partition and then to install Leopard to that partition so 1) the Passport drive will boot to the Leopard installer as a backup and 2) creation of that small bootable partition will not cause data on the larger portion to erase?

2. If I wanted to install Leopard on the Passport external, how would that OS know where to install? The Passport drive is my only backup and basically contains the contents of 2 complete drives, neither of which is bootable now. The contents of one drive has Tiger and the other drive contents includes Leopard.

3. I made a DMG copy of my Leopard install DVD and want to create a backup of that disk either on a DVD and/or a USB flash drive.

Regarding a DVD backup...
I have a blank 4.7 GB DVD that is obviously not large enough for the Leopard install disk which is around 7 GB. I'd have to get a DL DVD in order to make a complete copy to a DVD. So the question is...
Since I really don't think I need the Xcode Tools or the DVD/CD Sharing Setup that are part of the installer, is there any way to pare down the size of the Leopard installer DVD so I could copy only the system installer part and what would the size of that be?

Regarding a USB Flash Drive...
This sounds like the easiest option on an 8 GB drive, but I've read of some problems trying to boot Leopard from a USB port. Is this true?

[DeltaMac]

Booting to a USB flash drive works perfectly. I keep several different OS X versions on hand, on multiple partitions on a couple of external drives.
However, you cannot use a USB device to boot a PPC Mac, such as a G4 PowerBook.
There ARE tricks to make that work, but the tricks don't work on every Mac, and I don't offer that as a suggestion for you. By far, the best is to boot to the Leopard installer, with an external FIREWIRE drive attached to the Mac. In the installer, open Disk Utility, and add a partition to the external hard drive. You can make the partition only 8 GB in size. After the partition is added, click the Restore tab, and make the Installer DVD the source, and the new 8GB partition as the destination. Click the Restore button. When that process is complete, you'll have the Leopard installer (bootable) on its own partition, that you can use for whatever purpose you like.
You could even install Leopard on your 10.5 backup partition. Just don't choose the option to erase that partition, and the installer will make that backup completely bootable, keeping all your files. Assuming that your backup has the same folder setup as the internal drive, you should expect that backup to boot up and look exactly like your internal HD looked when it used to work...
Before you do THAT install (on top of your backup) you DO want to check in the installer Options to see if the option to Archive & Install (including the sub-option to save settings) is available (not greyed-out). In that case, that will be a Good Thing™ to choose that option - which, after the install completes, will then boot to your same user, with the same desktop and background screen that you used to have.
I would further suggest, that if you install with that method, you should avoid using your apps or the rest of your system, until you run Software Update to get your system back up-to-date. That update process will need a restart, then run Software Update again for further updates - probably repeating at least 3 times until no further updates are available.
Let us know how that process goes for you...

[janess]

<<However, you cannot use a USB device to boot a PPC Mac, such as a G4 PowerBook.>>

Well, I just can't thank you enough for telling me about this before I went out and bought a USB flash drive (not a big deal) and then spent a lot of time figuring out how to format and partition the drive and then move the Leopard installer...a big deal given what would have been a lot of lost time there (and more Catch-22/brick wall) which I don't need at this point.

<<By far, the best is to boot to the Leopard installer, with an external FIREWIRE drive attached to the Mac.>>

OK, I've got the WD Passport FW 800 external drive, so that's a good thing (or, Good Thing™, as you've said). Again, I have 3 goals with the Leopard Installer DVD: 1) to be able to reinstall Leopard on my internal drive if that's needed (no brainer there, but I can't do anything until I can make the now mounted, read-only internal drive read-write, 2) to create sufficient backup of the Leopard Installer so I don't have to rely on (or travel with) the Apple disk, and 3) to see if I can make the WD external drive bootable to Leopard as another backup (or even as my main Leopard drive if my internal drive remains problematic and so I can buy a little bit of time before I invest in a new internal drive).

<<In the installer, open Disk Utility, and add a partition to the external hard drive.>>

This seems fairly simple and straightforward (and I've also watched a few YouTube videos which illustrate this process), but I've been afraid of doing something that potentially will erase or corrupt data on the Passport external drive which is my only complete backup right now.

<<When that process is complete, you'll have the Leopard installer (bootable) on its own partition, that you can use for whatever purpose you like.>>

I think you mean that the Leopard installer would then become bootable as a backup for either an install or for access to a Leopard version of Disk Utility, right?

<<You could even install Leopard on your 10.5 backup partition. Just don't choose the option to erase that partition, and the installer will make that backup completely bootable, keeping all your files. Assuming that your backup has the same folder setup as the internal drive, you should expect that backup to boot up and look exactly like your internal HD looked when it used to work...>>

This is where I'm a little bit confused. Continuing on from my previous question just above...if I create an 8 GB partition on my external Passport and am careful not to erase contents of the existing partition, will that volume then boot up so I can install Leopard on that drive to be its bootable system?

What I'm not getting is this...
The external Passport drive now has basically 3 folders: 1) the complete contents (nonbootable) of my Tiger external drive, 2) the complete, repaired contents (nonbootable) of my Leopard internal drive, and 3) all of the Recovered Files from the DiskWarrior rebuild/recovery and other assorted garbage associated with trying to get my internal drive mounted and repaired. So, if I booted the Leopard installer from the newly created partition on the Passport drive, would that fresh system install in a new, separate folder or set of folders and leave the other 3 existing folders untouched? I also do not get why the Passport drive is not bootable now since it contains full systems of both Leopard and Tiger in the folders I described above.

Also, for what it's worth, the internal Leopard drive and the contents of the Leopard folder on the external Passport look identical. The only difference is that the Leopard folder on the Passport contains the directory rebuild from DiskWarrior that repaired the node structure problem and a boatload of other things. My internal drive is working now, with the exception of being mounted as read-only. Point being...if I could figure out how to get the internal drive set as read-write, I could easily have Carbon Copy Cloner move the fully-repaired contents of the Leopard folder from the Passport drive and there's a good chance my problem would be solved without having to immediately reinstall Leopard.

<<Before you do THAT install (on top of your backup) you DO want to check in the installer Options to see if the option to Archive & Install (including the sub-option to save settings) is available (not greyed-out).>>

Again, I'm confused (or maybe just dense) and my confusion relates to an earlier question I had posed about where Leopard knows to install on the external drive. Meaning, does the Leopard installer know to place the new system directly into the existing Leopard-related folder that currently resides on that external drive? I can't imagine that would be the case. My biggest concern here is that I want to keep my Tiger folder untouched. I just can't seem to wrap my head around how an Archive and Install would work without affecting the Tiger folder.

<<In that case, that will be a Good Thing™ to choose that option - which, after the install completes, will then boot to your same user, with the same desktop and background screen that you used to have.>>

Actually, if I can just get my internal drive permissions to change to read-write and then repair/restore the drive properly with the rebuild from Disk Warrior, with Disk Utility, or with Carbon Copy Cloner, my internal Leopard drive and the external Tiger drive would then have complete "backups" of what's now on the Passport drive. I could then erase, reformat, and repartition the Passport Drive and do a clean install of Leopard with all of the software updates and start fresh with a bootable backup volume. That would seem to be a Better Thing™ than having to repartition and hope for a good Leopard install on the Passport, right?

<<Let us know how that process goes for you...>>

I would love nothing more than to let you know how things go and, even more, to report that a really thorny problem has been successfully resolved (and, mostly because of all the helpful input from you and others on this Forum). But, unfortunately, until I find a way to get my internal drive converted back to read-write, I'm stuck...really stuck. I need to get rid of that little crossed-out pencil icon on the internal drive because nothing I've tried recently will let me do anything with the drive except see what's on there. Even if I repaired the disk with DU, it would still be read-only and I would still be stuck where I am. Thanks again for all of your help...

[agentx]

Do you have another Mac available ?

As you only really have 1 copy of your data i would not advise trying anything like partitioning the WD external.

[janess]

Hi Agentx.

<<Do you have another Mac available ?>>

I'm guessing you're thinking something via Target Mode? My PowerBook G4 is all I have right now, unless I arranged to use a MacBook from a neighbor/friend or from the computer lab at the local college (all of which, I think, is much more difficult to arrange and schedule than trying to figure out how to get my internal drive switched to read-write so I can move forward and try to reinstall Leopard there). I do have some older Macs, but the hard drive space on those is minimal. My PowerBook is running flawlessly on Tiger now, so it's not like I'm unable to get things done. But please do elaborate on what you were thinking, as I'm always open to any ideas and I very much want to get the Leopard problem solved with my internal drive which is now mounted and looks/sounds fine...with the exception of the crossed-out pencil icon.

<<As you only really have 1 copy of your data i would not advise trying anything like partitioning the WD external.>>

Yes, a little voice keeps telling me not to mess with that external drive yet before I can gain access to my internal drive. However, I really want to understand and learn about the aforementioned things related to bootable drives, repartitioning, system installation, Terminal execution, etc. I spent a lot of time this week researching Unix-related information and came across about a half-dozen possible ways to correct the read-only problem, but I'm just not sure about which would be the most correct and least risky to try and I sure don't want to undo any of the progress I've made so far. I'll probably post separately about that later once I've gathered and condensed the info in one place.

Thanks for your input...

[agentx]

Ok. I am confused Powerbook is Working running Tiger and has a Leopard Partition on it ?
Please list simply what you have where etc ;-)

[DeltaMac]

Ah - it's unfortunate that you chose to just copy files into various folders on your external.
I didn't consider that you would be copying files from different systems into folders on your external, and NOT into separate partitions.
And, your external has only the single partition (IS that correct?)

1. Backing up your Leopard installer to an external firewire hard drive will both protect your original DVD, and as a bonus, make the install process much faster, especially when installing to an older PowerBook. In my experience, PowerBook DVD drives are quite slow booting and reading to the OS X installers.

2. If there's plenty of free space on your external, then splitting the partitions is a very safe process. The Partition tab in Disk Utility will show you graphically if you can split the existing partition, or not. If your external is less than 1/2 full, then you can do it.
My suggestion is to make a new partition, then (before actually Applying the change) resize the new partition to 8GB, which you will use for the Leopard installer. Nothing happens until you press the Apply button, and agree on the next window. You can always cancel out, and all returns to what is WAS.
So, to begin: Open your Disk Utility. Click on your external hard drive model number line, then click on the Partition tab.
At the bottom of the Partition Layout window, click the (+). Your hard drive will split in half, with a second partition with the same name and number 2. Click on that #2 area, then CHANGE the Partition Info size to 8.00 GB. The press your Tab key. The graphic of the partitions will change to show you the new partitions (the new one is now much smaller)
And, if you are ready, you can click the Apply button, which then will ask "Are you sure?" Your existing data will not be erased. OK, or cancel (if you lose your nerve )
The new partition will take only a few seconds.
Click the Restore tab.
Insert your Leopard installer DVD.
The installer DVD will show in the list of drives. Drag the installer to the Source line.
Drag the new #2 partition to the Destination line.
Click the Restore button. The Restore process will take 10 minutes or so.
Boot to that installer partition (yes, it will be bootable)

AND - - let the installer sort out your little read-write issue. The installer will probably error out if the hard drive does NOT pass the installer's checks (which would include setting properly for read/write.)
And - if that install fails, you have your files backed up - just reboot to the installer, and go into the Disk Utility.
Choose the internal drive (the manufacturer's line). Click the partition tab. Click the partition layout drop-down, choose 1 partition. Click the Apply button. That will remove everything on your internal drive.
Click the Erase tab, and make sure your new partition is selected. Options: One-pass write zeroes. Name your partition if you like, and click the Erase tab. The write-zeroes will likely take most of an hour. When that completes, Quit Disk Utility, and continue with the OS X install.
If you get errors during the format or erase process, I think you are done (with this hard drive)
Otherwise, the install will complete, and you can restore all your own stuff, and continue on with your life.....

[janess]

Hi Agentx,

<< Ok. I am confused Powerbook is Working running Tiger and has a Leopard Partition on it ?
Please list simply what you have where etc ;-)>>

1. PowerBook G4 Internal Drive with Bootable Leopard (mounted, but read-only and currently with directory problems that need to be addressed)
2. Macintosh HD External Drive FW400 with Bootable Tiger (this is what is currently running the PB...also, only 8 GB of available disk space and was originally an internal drive on another PB which died)
3. WD My Passport External Drive FW800 with copies of internal Leopard Drive and external Tiger Drive (nonbootable, but plenty of available space).

All three drives currently only have a single partition each.

[janess]

Hi DeltaMac,

I just read your last post and I think I'm going to have to take a little more time to digest and think through what you've suggested. Yes, I had previously mentioned that I didn't partition the Passport external because I didn't know any better...and that is a shame. Keep in mind, in decades of Mac use, I have never had to think about a partition, Terminal, a system reinstall, and many other things I am just newly learning about. At least, I've always been pretty good about backing up data. However, if anything happens to the external Passport drive during partitioning/installation and the data on the internal drive remains read-only or disappears due to something with Disk Utility/Leopard installer, then I might as well go out and buy a Dell and call it a day. That would just be disasterous. I just can't help but think that the most benign option would be a Terminal command or two to get rid of the read-only. Why would it not make sense to try that first?

I think I want to just try to get some input here on a few Terminal codes that might easily correct my read-only problem and then I won't have to go through everything you described. I don't really understand what you said about letting the installer sort out the read-write issue. Can you elaborate on that just a little bit? I think you're talking about checks the installer would do before an install, but I'm really not sure. An OS installer can't install to a read-only drive, can it?

Also, one other question...do you know how big the Leopard installer app is after it opens and would just that app fit on a single layer 4.7 GB DVD (leaving out the optional installs, Xcode, CD sharing)? Thanks, as always...

[DeltaMac]

Quote: An OS installer can't install to a read-only drive, can it?

No, the installer will not begin (will not show your hard drive as an available device), or will error out.

Will the Leopard installer fit on a single layer DVD? No, it's already on a dual-layer DVD.
I don't think you can arbitrarily "leave out" parts of the installer.
Even with a good disk, and simply copying the DVD, Leopard is the most finicky to get copies that actually work. I have probably burned about 50 DVD copies of Leopard, over the years. I'd guess that about 1 in 3 will not boot or install.
That's why I recommend using a firewire HD as a backup for the installer. It only needs an 8GB partition for that. It always works, and always boots and installs much faster than a DVD can possibly install.

Finally, I said the installer will sort out your read/write issues. Several possibilities will happen:
The installer will complete, and the hard drive will work after the install, because the installer set the drive properly as part of the install process. PASS
The installer will not install, because the hard drive is not writeable. FAIL: re-format and try again.
or FAIL: re-format doesn't complete because of an error, and the hard drive is bad.
Or, the installer completes the install, but the hard drive still will not boot, and probably won't mount. FAIL: reformat and try again.
or FAIL: reformat doesn't help, the hard drive is bad.
One way to find out quickly: Boot to the installer, and see if the installer will let you select your internal hard drive for the install. If your hard drive is REALLY not writeable, it will not likely show up as a possible choice.

[janess]

Hi DeltaMac,

<<No, the installer will not begin (will not show your hard drive as an available device), or will error out.>> and <<Finally, I said the installer will sort out your read/write issues. Several possibilities will happen:>>

Aren't these 2 statements at odds with one another? If the installer will not recognize the internal drive because it is read-only, how can it address the read/write issues? I'm thinking you must mean that I would try to install Leopard onto the internal drive from the DVD or the 8 GB Passport partition after the internal drive was changed to read-write via Terminal. Is that right or am I missing something?

<<One way to find out quickly: Boot to the installer, and see if the installer will let you select your internal hard drive for the install. If your hard drive is REALLY not writeable, it will not likely show up as a possible choice.>>

When I tried this, the internal drive showed up as a choice but a message box came up saying the disk was read-only. Same thing happened with the internal drive when I tried with DiskWarrior and Carbon Copy Cloner...internal drive showed up in the list, but I got the same read-only message. I have to believe it's a permissions issue, given that the command I used from Apple to mount the drive clearly specified read-only: "sudo mount -t hfs -o rdonly /dev/disk0s3 /Volumes/Mac\ HD\ 10.5". That was the only command that would actually mount the drive, even though I tried different variations without the "rdonly" entry. I didn't expect that command line to work, but it did...it brought everything back except the ability to write to the drive.

There seems to be tons of people who have run into the read-only problem and I've got to believe there's a fairly easy and safe way to undo that. I just posted a plea for help on the Terminal thread, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

As for making a bootable copy of Leopard, the DVDs do sound like a nightmare. The reason I brought up the SL DVD is because I have a bunch of them lying around and I'd seen a couple of videos on YouTube where the Leopard install DVD was reduced in size by creating a DMG and then deleting items into the trash. It was a multi-step process, but it looked like it worked. Here's one example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC4TiFI3exI), but if you search "Leopard single layer dvd" on YT, bunches of videos will come up. Take a look if you're interested...

[DeltaMac]

No, the two statements are not contradictory.
I was just listing some possible results you might expect if you try to reinstall.
And, you encountered one of the choices (the installer can't use the hard drive, because it's read-only), and that's where the installer has "sorted out the read/write issues" (It can't install on a read-only drive.)

And, this is the issue that you have been struggling with all the time?
Disk Utility won't repair the drive in its present state.
Disk Warrior also refuses to fix "because there's a hardware problem"

Quote: I've got to believe there's a fairly easy and safe way to undo that.

I think you're right!
If it's a software issue, then you can replace the software (by formatting the hard drive and reinstalling OS X)
I don't think it's software
If Disk Warrior says that a hardware problem prevents repair, then I trust Disk Warrior.
And (after replacing perhaps hundreds of bad hard drives over the years) - I continue to suspect a BAD hard drive, which needs replacing.



I have given up on installer DVDs - and so has Apple!

[Elijahg]

Your internal hard disk needs replacing, and you need to reinstall Leopard. The reason it's gone read-only is because the OS will not allow writes to the disk for fear of damaging it further, and DiskWarrior won't fix the disk as it detects a hardware fault. Your copy attempts earlier with Disk Utility resulting in an in/out error prove the hardware is at fault.

You erase and reinstall Leopard on the internal disk, but chances are it'll fail, or you'll end up in the same situation again. New or reconditioned disks are cheap enough on eBay, the installation difficulty varies depending on the exact PowerBook you've got.

[agentx]

I agree stop wasting time buy a new disk. you cannot trust that disk.

I to have replaced 100s of disks over the years and as soon as Diskwarrior shows a fault....it gets taken out of service. We also use drive genius for surface scans as well.

In fact there are other ways to build system images which can be restored to a disk (wiping it completely). I really do not want to go into using InstaDMG or system image utility etc as a biggish complicated topic and also made harder with age of your system etc.