advice on external firewire disk

brmic · 02-07-2003, 08:28 AM

im about to get an external firewire HD for my PBG4-400 for backup storage and for running fink, DevTools & Classic from it.
Problem is, i'm on a tight budget, and i don't know a wet slap about hardware. Could you please help me out with the follwong questions:
1. do i need the hot-plug capability some drives advertise? As i can mount/unmount networked disks etc. with ease it seems to me, that this is not necessary, but i don't really know.
2. what phrases are used in techspeak for "get's it's power from your PB - no external power supply necessary"
3. What apart from 7200 rpm and size should i pay attention to and why?

thanks in advance
markus
P.S. i seriously couldn't find the info on the net. please also point me to resources you are aware of.

filburt1 · 02-07-2003, 09:32 AM

1. Any firewire drive is hotswappable, you just have to unmount it first to avoid OS X complaining.
2. It doesn't need another power source; I suggest that you get an external one so it doesn't destroy your battery life
3. 7200 RPM is faster (maybe noticably) but will use more power if relying on your PB's battery. Try to get a drive that uses standard parts inside (i.e., a normal desktop HDD) so you can upgrade it in the future (naturally destroying the warantee but by then it will probably be up anyway). You can also look to see if it has USB2 which most new PCs today have if you want to share the data.

jeffo · 02-07-2003, 10:21 AM

I have a few external firewire drives. one was an extra 5400 rpm ATA internal drive that i had so i bought a generic case for it and it works great but i have another 7200 rpm drive that is in a factory firewire case and i could notice a speed difference between them, but it was not huge.

brmic · 02-07-2003, 01:22 PM

thanks

do i understand correctly, that is is highly unlikely (if not impossible) that the drive requires an external power supply. (i understand it would be nice to have that, just in case, but then, my PB is 'plugged' most of the time, so that shouldn't matter). and that speed is not really an issue.
but what is meant by 'upgrade'. you don't mean to say i'm gonna run out of space again in the next decade? ;-)

filburt1 · 02-07-2003, 01:25 PM

Some have an internal one (i.e., all you need is a power cable) while others have an external one (i.e., an AC adapter). Internal is more convenient but makes for a bigger and hotter drive.

By upgrade I mean tear apart the enclosure and put in a bigger one. Remember what seems huge now will be puny in a few years.

brmic · 02-07-2003, 01:35 PM

i'm sorry, but no you confused me again. if i understand correctly there are internal-adapter, external-adapter and powered-by-the-powerbook*-through-firewire kinds of firewire disks. what's the tech term for the last sort.

sorry for being so slow on the uptake
markus
* hence the name

filburt1 · 02-07-2003, 01:37 PM

I'm not sure if there are actually any powered by firewire only but that would require a lot of power and completely kill your laptop battery.

So, if it exists:

By firewire: gets its power from the firewire port
By internal power: uses a normal computer power cord but has a transformer inside the box
By external power: uses a usually proprietary AC adapter for power but makes the drive box smaller

brmic · 02-07-2003, 01:40 PM

you don't think they exist. too bad.
thanks anyway (both of you).
i'll be off shopping right away, let's see whether choices are easier armed with new knowledge.
thanks
markus

robarmo · 02-07-2003, 03:17 PM

Sounds like you're looking for a "Bus powered" FireWire drive.
Most models also allow you to use an optional AC adaptor (to avoid killing your battery). But as you say, you are usually plugged in anyway.

You can get compact "shirt pocket" sized models, which use 3.5" or 2.5" drives, or you can get desktop models, which use standard 5.25" drives-which tend to be cheaper/larger capacity. Many products come with both FireWire and USB 2.

In response to those who said bus-powered drives don't exist, haven't you people ever heard of an iPod?! You can recharge it over FireWire! I've also got a bus-powered scanner and Zip 250, although admittedly they use USB (but FireWire models are also available.)

Hope that helps!

Rob.

mclbruce · 02-07-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by brmic 1. do i need the hot-plug capability some drives advertise? As i can mount/unmount networked disks etc. with ease it seems to me, that this is not necessary, but i don't really know. 2. what phrases are used in techspeak for "get's it's power from your PB - no external power supply necessary" 3. What apart from 7200 rpm and size should i pay attention to and why?

A lot of confustion in this thread. Rob helped to clear things up. I'll add on.

1. I think all drives will show up on your desktop when you turn them on. You shouldn't have to restart your Pb to connect a firewire HD. That's what hot plugging means, no restart necessary. To unplug, eject the firewire HD icon, pull the cable, and power down if necessary.

2. The words are "bus powered." Most drives, particularly the small and medium sized ones, are bus powered. I don't know if all of the large sized drives, the ones about the size of an external CD burner, are bus powered.

3. Oh, you don't have to pay attention to anything, just get whatever Other World Computing has for sale! Sorry, that was a little MacOSXHints joke :-)

3. Firewire drives are just generic hard drives in plastic or metal cases with a little circuit board to help them "speak firewire." In the bad old days some of the firewire circuitry was very slow so you had to watch out for that. Nowadays most of the circuitry has "Oxford 911" which means it doesn't suck. Some cases, particulary those for the largest sized generic hard drives, have fans in them that make a lot of noise. That's something to watch out for.

Russ R. · 02-07-2003, 09:42 PM

I'll add another plug for Other World Computing. Their drives are excellent, and their service is great.

mclbruce · 02-07-2003, 09:48 PM

I was going to put in a link for OWC, but their web site doesn't come up. I wonder if somebody hacked it or something. Maybe somebody with a grudge against them...

Russ R. · 02-07-2003, 09:54 PM

I was going to put in a link, and noticed the same thing. They are down at the moment. I didn't do it...

brmic · 02-08-2003, 04:00 AM

thanks for the tip on OWC, though i cannot use it cause they don't appear to ship to 'old Europe'.

they do however have pages explaining about firewire drives, that made me think about another option.
i seems, i could exchange the the internal drive for a larger one AND use the old 10GB drive as an external backup for the home folder, and thus get the space i need plus a partial backup device for about the same price (as one large external firewire device).
anyone ever exchanged their powerbooks drive? howto?

tjj · 02-08-2003, 03:14 PM

Yes, getting a bigger, faster, more silent internal drive for your PB is possible. And it is a piece of cake to do it, really!
Actually OWC does ship to Europe. I bought some stuff coupla years ago. Shipping wasn't prohibitive compared to the taxes we pay in Denmark. You could also mount your ol' drive in an expansion bay enclosure. Still, an external firewire drive is a very nice thing to back up to.
OWC and MCE I think, both carry enclosures and links to installation guides.
These links may be outdated:
one
another
third

brmic · 02-08-2003, 04:05 PM

thanks
i also discovered this link on xlr8yourmac
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/powerbook...d_upgrade.html
which gives details on exchanging one's PB drive.
http://www.info.apple.com/installparts
also describes the process.
As soon as i have secured the aid of our sysadmin i think i'll set to work.

thanks everybody
markus

02-07-2003, 08:28 AM	#1
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	advice on external firewire disk im about to get an external firewire HD for my PBG4-400 for backup storage and for running fink, DevTools & Classic from it. Problem is, i'm on a tight budget, and i don't know a wet slap about hardware. Could you please help me out with the follwong questions: 1. do i need the hot-plug capability some drives advertise? As i can mount/unmount networked disks etc. with ease it seems to me, that this is not necessary, but i don't really know. 2. what phrases are used in techspeak for "get's it's power from your PB - no external power supply necessary" 3. What apart from 7200 rpm and size should i pay attention to and why? thanks in advance markus P.S. i seriously couldn't find the info on the net. please also point me to resources you are aware of. __________________ In God we trust. All others must bring data.

02-07-2003, 09:32 AM	#2
filburt1 Triple-A Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 184	1. Any firewire drive is hotswappable, you just have to unmount it first to avoid OS X complaining. 2. It doesn't need another power source; I suggest that you get an external one so it doesn't destroy your battery life 3. 7200 RPM is faster (maybe noticably) but will use more power if relying on your PB's battery. Try to get a drive that uses standard parts inside (i.e., a normal desktop HDD) so you can upgrade it in the future (naturally destroying the warantee but by then it will probably be up anyway). You can also look to see if it has USB2 which most new PCs today have if you want to share the data. __________________ Get your web design questions answered: http://www.webdesignforums.net/

02-07-2003, 01:25 PM	#5
filburt1 Triple-A Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 184	Some have an internal one (i.e., all you need is a power cable) while others have an external one (i.e., an AC adapter). Internal is more convenient but makes for a bigger and hotter drive. By upgrade I mean tear apart the enclosure and put in a bigger one. Remember what seems huge now will be puny in a few years. __________________ Get your web design questions answered: http://www.webdesignforums.net/

02-07-2003, 01:37 PM	#7
filburt1 Triple-A Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 184	I'm not sure if there are actually any powered by firewire only but that would require a lot of power and completely kill your laptop battery. So, if it exists: By firewire: gets its power from the firewire port By internal power: uses a normal computer power cord but has a transformer inside the box By external power: uses a usually proprietary AC adapter for power but makes the drive box smaller __________________ Get your web design questions answered: http://www.webdesignforums.net/

02-07-2003, 03:17 PM	#9
robarmo Major Leaguer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 306	RE: "Bus powered" FireWire drives Sounds like you're looking for a "Bus powered" FireWire drive. Most models also allow you to use an optional AC adaptor (to avoid killing your battery). But as you say, you are usually plugged in anyway. You can get compact "shirt pocket" sized models, which use 3.5" or 2.5" drives, or you can get desktop models, which use standard 5.25" drives-which tend to be cheaper/larger capacity. Many products come with both FireWire and USB 2. In response to those who said bus-powered drives don't exist, haven't you people ever heard of an iPod?! You can recharge it over FireWire! I've also got a bus-powered scanner and Zip 250, although admittedly they use USB (but FireWire models are also available.) Hope that helps! Rob. __________________ 15" iMac, 800MHz G4, 768MB, 60GB, 10.3.9, 9.2.2 My 2nd iMac

02-07-2003, 10:21 AM	#3
jeffo All Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 713	I have a few external firewire drives. one was an extra 5400 rpm ATA internal drive that i had so i bought a generic case for it and it works great but i have another 7200 rpm drive that is in a factory firewire case and i could notice a speed difference between them, but it was not huge.

02-07-2003, 01:22 PM	#4
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	thanks do i understand correctly, that is is highly unlikely (if not impossible) that the drive requires an external power supply. (i understand it would be nice to have that, just in case, but then, my PB is 'plugged' most of the time, so that shouldn't matter). and that speed is not really an issue. but what is meant by 'upgrade'. you don't mean to say i'm gonna run out of space again in the next decade? ;-)

02-07-2003, 01:35 PM	#6
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	i'm sorry, but no you confused me again. if i understand correctly there are internal-adapter, external-adapter and powered-by-the-powerbook-through-firewire kinds of firewire disks. what's the tech term for the last sort. sorry for being so slow on the uptake markus hence the name

02-07-2003, 01:40 PM	#8
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	you don't think they exist. too bad. thanks anyway (both of you). i'll be off shopping right away, let's see whether choices are easier armed with new knowledge. thanks markus

02-07-2003, 09:42 PM	#11
Russ R. Triple-A Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chicago, USA Posts: 212	OWC I'll add another plug for Other World Computing. Their drives are excellent, and their service is great. __________________ "Now, you will see me one more time, if you do good. You'll see me... two more times, if you do bad."

02-07-2003, 09:48 PM	#12
mclbruce Hall of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,878	I was going to put in a link for OWC, but their web site doesn't come up. I wonder if somebody hacked it or something. Maybe somebody with a grudge against them...

02-07-2003, 09:54 PM	#13
Russ R. Triple-A Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chicago, USA Posts: 212	I was going to put in a link, and noticed the same thing. They are down at the moment. I didn't do it... __________________ "Now, you will see me one more time, if you do good. You'll see me... two more times, if you do bad."

02-08-2003, 04:00 AM	#14
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	thanks for the tip on OWC, though i cannot use it cause they don't appear to ship to 'old Europe'. they do however have pages explaining about firewire drives, that made me think about another option. i seems, i could exchange the the internal drive for a larger one AND use the old 10GB drive as an external backup for the home folder, and thus get the space i need plus a partial backup device for about the same price (as one large external firewire device). anyone ever exchanged their powerbooks drive? howto?

02-08-2003, 03:14 PM	#15
tjj Major Leaguer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 271	Yes, getting a bigger, faster, more silent internal drive for your PB is possible. And it is a piece of cake to do it, really! Actually OWC does ship to Europe. I bought some stuff coupla years ago. Shipping wasn't prohibitive compared to the taxes we pay in Denmark. You could also mount your ol' drive in an expansion bay enclosure. Still, an external firewire drive is a very nice thing to back up to. OWC and MCE I think, both carry enclosures and links to installation guides. These links may be outdated: one another third __________________ -- Thomas 10.4.11 on Pismo 500 MHz/1GB 10.5.6 on iMac intel 2.16 GHz core duo/2GB

02-08-2003, 04:05 PM	#16
brmic Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: germany Posts: 178	thanks i also discovered this link on xlr8yourmac http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/powerbook...d_upgrade.html which gives details on exchanging one's PB drive. http://www.info.apple.com/installparts also describes the process. As soon as i have secured the aid of our sysadmin i think i'll set to work. thanks everybody markus