FAQ for Apple X11 Public Beta

sao · 01-11-2003, 02:40 AM

NOTE: an updated FAQ thread will be posted on this forum soon.

-------------------

The following was posted by Haroon Sheikh of Apple at the x11-users@lists.apple.com, some of these problems and solutions were already posted here at the forums, but I thought these more complete FAQ are a good reference point for anybody new to Apple X11.

F.A.Q. for X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta v0.1

---------------

Q: What is X11 for Mac OS X?

A: Go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11 for more info.

---------------

Q: How do I file bug reports and request features?

A: Bug reports and feature requests related to X11 for Mac OS X (or anything else) can and should be filed at <http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter>. There is a web interface and and e-mail one for those who are web-form adverse. We suggest writing bugs (and feature requests) there so things do not get lost in the shuffle (you can be sure that the bug report will get the the team and someone definitely will look at it). Include as much info as possible (detailed steps) and a good system config (an Apple System Profiler report) is always useful.

---------------

Q: Is there a mailing list?

A: Yes, you can subscribe to the x11-users@lists.apple.com mailing list from the following url: http://www.lists.apple.com/x11-users. This list's main purpose is for discussions among the X community. Apple will monitor the list and help answer questions but doesn't guarantee that every bug report or feedback sent to the mailing list will be processed. Use the bugreporter (see above) instead to make sure your input is processed.

---------------

Q: Can you archive the x11-users mailing list?

A: The archives should now be working.

---------------

Q: Where are things installed?

A: In /Applications/X11.app and /usr/X11R6. If you have an existing
/etc/X11 it is backed-up during installation and a new one is installed. A pre existing ~/.xinitrc is not touched.

---------------

Q: Can I run another window manager instead of quartz-wm?

A: Yes, by all means.

---------------

Q: Which version of XFree86 does X11 for Mac OS X correspond to?

A: XFree86 4.2.1

---------------

Q: Will X11 for Mac OS X update to newer versions of XFree86?

A: Yes, we will continue to work with the XFree86 community to synchronize changes.

---------------

Q: Does X11 work with a previous installed version of XDarwin?

A: We recommend you backup and move aside your previous installation of X and then install X11 for Mac OS X. A few people have been able to get X11 for Mac OS X, XDarwin and OroborosX to all co-exist.

---------------

Q: Will source for X11 for Mac OS X be released?

A: Yes, the source code for the X11 server will be made available soon on the Darwin web pages. It will only contain the source for the X11 server, but not the quartz-wm window manager.

---------------

Q: Does X11.app process my .xinitrc?

A: Yes, if one exists, it will be used. If not, then it will launch /usr/X11/bin/quartz-wm and an xterm. You can customize launch your favorite window manager, customize your launched xterm or launch other applications from a .xinitrc.

---------------

Q: I don't see /Applications/X11.app after installing.

A: Make sure you install the X11UserForMacOSX.mkpg (about 40 megs) from http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/ and not just the X11SDKForMacOSX.pkg file.

---------------

Q: I do not see an xterm startup when launching X11.app.

A: Try backing up your existing .xinitrc if you have one and moving it aside.

---------------

Q: How do I copy and paste using X11 for Mac OS X?

A: X11 for Mac OS X allows cut and past between X11 and native applications using PRIMARY and PASTEBOARD selections. You can cut text from X by selecting text and paste in native Mac OS X applications using CMD-v. CMD-v doesn't work in X apps (this is by design). You should use the middle mouse button instead for pasting (See X11 Preferences for emulating a middle mouse button). The cmd-v menu option will be active when non-X windows are active, e.g. when entering text in the "Customize Applications" menu item. We will be looking at this issue further to see if it can be improved. For xchat : If someone posts a url to a channel, i have to drag-select it, then middle-click it to the text entry buffer, then select it again, and hit ctrl-x to cut it. then i can cmd-v in a native app. any other possible variation of this process doesn't work.

----------------

Q: I'm having problem with my international keyboard and with key mappings?

A: X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta was an English only release. We are looking at this issue. In the mean time you can try the following suggestions:
- Any arguments passed to the X11.app binary will be passed along to the X server, so you could try doing this:
/Applications/X11.app/Content/MacOS/X11 -keymap Francais.keymapping
- Use the command xmodmap -e 'keycode 66 = Mode_switch' to activate the left Alt key. To get right Alt, use 'keycode 69'.
- Use the command stty -istrip to allow the use of accentuated characters
- Getting the delete key to work : xmodmap -e 'keycode 59 = Delete' or xmodmap -e 'keysym BackSpace = Delete'

----------------

Known issues (not everything will be fixed for the final product):

- X clients do not appear as separate applications, e.g. in the dock and when Command-TAB'ing through applications.
- When closing an X11 window, if a native window is next in order, it won't be focused, the next X11 window will be.
- App window placement policy currently piles windows up in the top-left, instead of cascading them.
- KDE and Gnome hints are currently not supported. This can result in unwanted window decorations.
- A zombie process is created when shutting down X11 and restarting.
Resource usage is minimal though. Ugly workaround: logout and log back in.
- Running other window managers can result in windows hidden underneath the menu bar.
- Copy & Paste not working with other window managers.
- Cannot connect to X Server after a network config change - currently requires restart of X server.
- CMD-V doesn't work in X apps (this is by design) - use the middle mouse button instead.
- Minimizing a X11 window to the dock can appear empty (with no icon) and with no genie effect.
- X11 windows minimized to dock will remain in the dock after quitting X11.app.
- Quartz-wm currently doesn't put resize handles on dialog windows, or windows whose minimum and maximum sizes are the same.
- Currently focussed X11 app is not checked in the Window menu.
- OpenGL : offscreen rendering is currently not supported.
- OpenGL : resizing glxgears does not update the window correctly
- OpenGL apps refresh rate is limited by the display refresh rate (even on LCD panels where it should max out at 60fps).
- OpenGL : XInputExtension is not yet implemented. Maya and some GLUT applications require this extension.
- OpenGL : Cannot launch OpenGL applications unless the user is root or the current logged in user in Mac OS X.
- hide/show menu options not fully working.

----------------

Some commonly requested features (not all will make the final product):

- Ability to route a mouse click to the X11 root window using a modifier key
- Virtual Desktop facility in X11 or in Mac OS X
- option for no-click-to-focus
- Add the Applications menu to the X11 icon in the Dock. Also associate shortcuts like cmd-1 for the first entry, etc.
- Resize handle is a square and too big. Make it triangular.
- Modify /usr/bin/open-x11 to launch the X server if not running before launching a X app.

---------------

Cheers...

rusto · 01-11-2003, 08:05 AM

Great info, thanks Sao!

sao · 01-12-2003, 01:58 AM

Apple X11 additional Q/A

---------------------

Q: Will Apple X11 recognize my ~/.Xdefaults file?

A: Yes. Some people had to put "xrdb ~/.Xdefaults" in their .xinitrc file. (X11 wasn't reading the file by default)

---------------------

Q: How do I forward remote X displays to my Mac?

A: The best (and safest) way is to simply "ssh -X user@remotehost" from the initial xterm. X forwarding and your DISPLAY environment variable on the remote host will automatically be set (tested against Linux boxes with OpenSSH)

---------------------

Q: How can I get the startup xterm to import the Fink environment?

A: Check that your .bashrc file contains the line "source /sw/bin/init.sh" (or its tcsh equivalent if you run tcsh)

---------------------

Q: How to have the delete key in Apple X11 work like Xdarwin?

A:

Code:

~/.Xmodmap:

  keycode 59 = Delete

~/.Xresources:

  xterm*.deleteIsDEL: true
  xterm*.backarrowKey: false
  xterm*.ttyModes: erase ^?

~/.xinitrc:

    xrdb -load $HOME/.Xresources
    xmodmap $HOME/.Xmodmap

    xterm -sb -rightbar -geometry 80x48 &
    exec quartz-wm

When you press "delete" in an xterm, it deletes a character to the left.
When you ssh from there, it sends a \x7f to the remote process when you press delete. When you invoke a local X app like Emacs or XEmacs, pressing delete deletes one character to the left.

------------

Q: Two ways to get ssh X11 forwarding from Apple's X11 xterm:

A:

1. [mac:~] me% ssh -X -v -l me remote.example.com

2. Uncomment 'Host *' and 'ForwardX11 yes' systemwide in /private/etc ssh_config or by user in ~/.ssh/config.

[mac:~] me% ssh -v -l me remote.example.com

-----------------------

Q: Two ways to get ssh X11 forwarding from an Apple Terminal:

A:

1.
[mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 no_auth true

[mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 nolisten_tcp false

<start Apple's X11>

[mac:~] me% env DISPLAY=:0.0 ssh -X -v -l me remote.example.com

2.
Uncomment 'Host *' and 'ForwardX11 yes' systemwide in /private/etc ssh_config or by user in ~/.ssh/config.

[mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 no_auth true

[mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 nolisten_tcp false

<start Apple's X11>

[mac:~] me% env DISPLAY=:0.0 ssh -v -l me remote.example.com

-----------------------

Q: If I install Gimp with Fink will it work with Apple X11?

A: Yes, it will work fine with Apple X11. If you have Fink and Apple's Developer Tools installed just run:

'sudo fink -y install gimp'

------------------------

Q: Trying to set the keyboard (which is US by default, even macOS X is set to swiss german) results in a bus error, what to do?:

A: My first post in the FAQ mentions an easy workaround that works with most international keyboards. It is also possible to solve this problem by writing an appropriate .xmodmap file and adding to your ~/.xinitrc file:

'xmodmap ~/.xmodmap'

With xmodmap (distributed with X11) you can run:

xmodmap -pk > ~/keyboardcodes.txt

and it will print a file with the codes and the corresponding characters.

------------------------

Cheers...

maousse · 01-12-2003, 10:22 PM

Here is an app, called "X11 launcher" which allows an automatic keymapping configuration. Works now with french and german keyboard...

X11 launcher (binary and source available)

hope this could help

Glanz · 01-12-2003, 10:41 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao Apple X11 additional Q/A Cheers...

Hey Sao.... I guess there is no info about how to uninstall ONLY the Apple X11, is there? I regret having installed it now because I prefer the XDarwin to it. So I guess I'm stuck with them both for now.

thatch · 01-12-2003, 11:19 PM

Glanz, I'm curious why you wish you didn't install Apple X11? I still like XDarwin too, but I haven't done the Apple X11 yet.

Could you please let me know what changed your mind about Apple X11.

sao · 01-13-2003, 02:40 AM

Quote:


	Glanz wrote: I guess there is no info about how to uninstall ONLY the Apple X11

If you want to uninstall Apple X11 and go back to Fink installed xfree86, just do the following:

sudo dpkg --remove --force-depends system-xfree86

sudo rm -rf /Applications/X11.app /usr/X11R6 /etc/X11

fink install xfree86-base xfree86-rootless

and you will be on your way.

Cheers...

sao · 01-13-2003, 02:51 AM

maousse,

Thanks for the tip. I heard about X11 launcher. Cool little app. It becomes very useful if you are using a different keyboard with Apple X11 by allowing you to select the desired keyboard layout.

Cheers...

Glanz · 01-13-2003, 07:45 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by thatch Glanz, I'm curious why you wish you didn't install Apple X11? I still like XDarwin too, but I haven't done the Apple X11 yet. Could you please let me know what changed your mind about Apple X11.

!#Begin rant here

It is way too glitchy. It doesn't handle other window managers
correctly without an awful lot of tweaking. There is no excuse for this. The quartz-wm works rather well however, in fact it works so
well sometimes it won't shut down...

It looks like it does, but it
doesn't. I solved that problem, but others keep popping up. In my opinion, the "minor" problems on Apple's X11 have more to do with bad coding than with simple omissions. And as I said earlier... there is no excuse for this because XDarwin does not have these problems. Instead of being so "applishy creative" they should have copied some code.

With the XDarwin X11, I have never had one single problem that wasn't caused by
user mistakes. Apple's X11 requires too much attention, too much
babysitting. As soon as it bumps into an app it doesn't like, it crashes
everything else, rewrites or eliminates paths and requires
reconfigurations ad infinitum. This has never happened to me with
XDarwin. Now that I have A-X11 working correctly, without difficulty
more or less, I realize it wasn't worth the continual tweaking. So I use
XDarwin. The only speed improvements I noticed with the Apple X11 was
the startup and shutdown times. I don't especially like the Quartz trip
either.

To sum it up, if it wasn't for Fink, I would install Debian PPC and
totally forget about OS X altogether. In fact, I am always just a hair away
from doing just that. I have a University iBook at work with Debian and
only Debian installed on it, no OSX... Frankly it is five times as fast
as Fink or OS X. But as long as Fink is around, I'll probably keep
things as they are. I really like Fink and I appreciate the great effort
of its developers. I would do both via partitioning but I feel that Debian is so superior to OSX, there is no reason for me to keep it around. I can do everything I need to do on Debian with a real Open Office and countless programming tools. On Debian, Mozilla works as fast as Safari on OS X.
!#end of rant

That's just a rant of sorts, because I like the choices I have by using OpenDarwin apps compiled to go to /usr/local rather than to the "opt" directory, and the choices I have while building FreeBSD ports too...., and all that alongside of Fink. I am as far away from the world of Microslop and TinTel junk as one can be, then again, I have always been. I am having fun, in other words, and without contributing a cent to Monopolo$oft's empire of fools.
-

Glanz · 01-13-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao If you want to uninstall Apple X11 and go back to Fink installed xfree86, just do the following: fink install xfree86-base xfree86-rootless and you will be on your way. Cheers...

Thanks Sao! I forgot about "X11.app" I am used to Linux.

sao · 01-13-2003, 08:35 AM

Glanz,

Don't forget this version of Apple X11 is a "Public Beta". I found many good points that I like. Give it some time, and it will only get better. I look forward to when they will sync to xfree86-4.3.

Quote:


	Glanz wrote: if it wasn't for Fink, I would install Debian PPC and totally forget about OS X altogether. In fact, I am always just a hair away from doing just that.

It might be good for you to do just that.

But, they won't move me away from Mac OS X, it's "by far" the best platform available today. Besides, I'm a loyal Macintosh fan since 1990. And, I'm a bit fanatic about it.

Cheers...

thatch · 01-13-2003, 04:01 PM

Glanz, thanks for the reply. That's what I was looking for. I had my suspicions that there were a lot of problems and that the speed might be better but with a lot of crashes and other idiosyncrasies. So, I think I'll continue to hold off on this one. In the future though, I expect a better release of Apple X11 that will work together with other wm's well, etc...

To all, I am a loyal Mac user since my first computer, a IIsi in 1989. I have to admit though, what Glanz says about Debian is intriguing.

...more later when I have more time.

thatch · 01-16-2003, 09:34 PM

Glanz, I know I could probably research this on my own and come up with the answers. But you have done all this already so, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on Debian a bit? Specifically, Debian is a form of linux, correct? And could Mac users put it on a spare partition to boot from without reformatting the partition into UFS? Once it's installed and running, could you then use all the same programs as we do with fink? TIA.

Okay, I found some info about some of this here. But anything else you'd like to add would be helpful.

01-11-2003, 02:40 AM	#1
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Apple X11 Public Beta: helpful information NOTE: an updated FAQ thread will be posted on this forum soon. ------------------- The following was posted by Haroon Sheikh of Apple at the x11-users@lists.apple.com, some of these problems and solutions were already posted here at the forums, but I thought these more complete FAQ are a good reference point for anybody new to Apple X11. F.A.Q. for X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta v0.1 --------------- Q: What is X11 for Mac OS X? A: Go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11 for more info. --------------- Q: How do I file bug reports and request features? A: Bug reports and feature requests related to X11 for Mac OS X (or anything else) can and should be filed at <http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter>. There is a web interface and and e-mail one for those who are web-form adverse. We suggest writing bugs (and feature requests) there so things do not get lost in the shuffle (you can be sure that the bug report will get the the team and someone definitely will look at it). Include as much info as possible (detailed steps) and a good system config (an Apple System Profiler report) is always useful. --------------- Q: Is there a mailing list? A: Yes, you can subscribe to the x11-users@lists.apple.com mailing list from the following url: http://www.lists.apple.com/x11-users. This list's main purpose is for discussions among the X community. Apple will monitor the list and help answer questions but doesn't guarantee that every bug report or feedback sent to the mailing list will be processed. Use the bugreporter (see above) instead to make sure your input is processed. --------------- Q: Can you archive the x11-users mailing list? A: The archives should now be working. --------------- Q: Where are things installed? A: In /Applications/X11.app and /usr/X11R6. If you have an existing /etc/X11 it is backed-up during installation and a new one is installed. A pre existing ~/.xinitrc is not touched. --------------- Q: Can I run another window manager instead of quartz-wm? A: Yes, by all means. --------------- Q: Which version of XFree86 does X11 for Mac OS X correspond to? A: XFree86 4.2.1 --------------- Q: Will X11 for Mac OS X update to newer versions of XFree86? A: Yes, we will continue to work with the XFree86 community to synchronize changes. --------------- Q: Does X11 work with a previous installed version of XDarwin? A: We recommend you backup and move aside your previous installation of X and then install X11 for Mac OS X. A few people have been able to get X11 for Mac OS X, XDarwin and OroborosX to all co-exist. --------------- Q: Will source for X11 for Mac OS X be released? A: Yes, the source code for the X11 server will be made available soon on the Darwin web pages. It will only contain the source for the X11 server, but not the quartz-wm window manager. --------------- Q: Does X11.app process my .xinitrc? A: Yes, if one exists, it will be used. If not, then it will launch /usr/X11/bin/quartz-wm and an xterm. You can customize launch your favorite window manager, customize your launched xterm or launch other applications from a .xinitrc. --------------- Q: I don't see /Applications/X11.app after installing. A: Make sure you install the X11UserForMacOSX.mkpg (about 40 megs) from http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/ and not just the X11SDKForMacOSX.pkg file. --------------- Q: I do not see an xterm startup when launching X11.app. A: Try backing up your existing .xinitrc if you have one and moving it aside. --------------- Q: How do I copy and paste using X11 for Mac OS X? A: X11 for Mac OS X allows cut and past between X11 and native applications using PRIMARY and PASTEBOARD selections. You can cut text from X by selecting text and paste in native Mac OS X applications using CMD-v. CMD-v doesn't work in X apps (this is by design). You should use the middle mouse button instead for pasting (See X11 Preferences for emulating a middle mouse button). The cmd-v menu option will be active when non-X windows are active, e.g. when entering text in the "Customize Applications" menu item. We will be looking at this issue further to see if it can be improved. For xchat : If someone posts a url to a channel, i have to drag-select it, then middle-click it to the text entry buffer, then select it again, and hit ctrl-x to cut it. then i can cmd-v in a native app. any other possible variation of this process doesn't work. ---------------- Q: I'm having problem with my international keyboard and with key mappings? A: X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta was an English only release. We are looking at this issue. In the mean time you can try the following suggestions: - Any arguments passed to the X11.app binary will be passed along to the X server, so you could try doing this: /Applications/X11.app/Content/MacOS/X11 -keymap Francais.keymapping - Use the command xmodmap -e 'keycode 66 = Mode_switch' to activate the left Alt key. To get right Alt, use 'keycode 69'. - Use the command stty -istrip to allow the use of accentuated characters - Getting the delete key to work : xmodmap -e 'keycode 59 = Delete' or xmodmap -e 'keysym BackSpace = Delete' ---------------- Known issues (not everything will be fixed for the final product): - X clients do not appear as separate applications, e.g. in the dock and when Command-TAB'ing through applications. - When closing an X11 window, if a native window is next in order, it won't be focused, the next X11 window will be. - App window placement policy currently piles windows up in the top-left, instead of cascading them. - KDE and Gnome hints are currently not supported. This can result in unwanted window decorations. - A zombie process is created when shutting down X11 and restarting. Resource usage is minimal though. Ugly workaround: logout and log back in. - Running other window managers can result in windows hidden underneath the menu bar. - Copy & Paste not working with other window managers. - Cannot connect to X Server after a network config change - currently requires restart of X server. - CMD-V doesn't work in X apps (this is by design) - use the middle mouse button instead. - Minimizing a X11 window to the dock can appear empty (with no icon) and with no genie effect. - X11 windows minimized to dock will remain in the dock after quitting X11.app. - Quartz-wm currently doesn't put resize handles on dialog windows, or windows whose minimum and maximum sizes are the same. - Currently focussed X11 app is not checked in the Window menu. - OpenGL : offscreen rendering is currently not supported. - OpenGL : resizing glxgears does not update the window correctly - OpenGL apps refresh rate is limited by the display refresh rate (even on LCD panels where it should max out at 60fps). - OpenGL : XInputExtension is not yet implemented. Maya and some GLUT applications require this extension. - OpenGL : Cannot launch OpenGL applications unless the user is root or the current logged in user in Mac OS X. - hide/show menu options not fully working. ---------------- Some commonly requested features (not all will make the final product): - Ability to route a mouse click to the X11 root window using a modifier key - Virtual Desktop facility in X11 or in Mac OS X - option for no-click-to-focus - Add the Applications menu to the X11 icon in the Dock. Also associate shortcuts like cmd-1 for the first entry, etc. - Resize handle is a square and too big. Make it triangular. - Modify /usr/bin/open-x11 to launch the X server if not running before launching a X app. --------------- Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-11-2003 at 03:04 AM.

01-11-2003, 08:05 AM	#2
rusto MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,489	Great info, thanks Sao! __________________ :: 3.4GHz Core i7 iMac 4GB RAM :: Black MacBook SR :: 10.7.2 :: iPhone 4 / iOS 5 ::

01-12-2003, 01:58 AM	#3
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Apple X11 additional Q/A --------------------- Q: Will Apple X11 recognize my ~/.Xdefaults file? A: Yes. Some people had to put "xrdb ~/.Xdefaults" in their .xinitrc file. (X11 wasn't reading the file by default) --------------------- Q: How do I forward remote X displays to my Mac? A: The best (and safest) way is to simply "ssh -X user@remotehost" from the initial xterm. X forwarding and your DISPLAY environment variable on the remote host will automatically be set (tested against Linux boxes with OpenSSH) --------------------- Q: How can I get the startup xterm to import the Fink environment? A: Check that your .bashrc file contains the line "source /sw/bin/init.sh" (or its tcsh equivalent if you run tcsh) --------------------- Q: How to have the delete key in Apple X11 work like Xdarwin? A: Code: ~/.Xmodmap: keycode 59 = Delete ~/.Xresources: xterm.deleteIsDEL: true xterm.backarrowKey: false xterm.ttyModes: erase ^? ~/.xinitrc: xrdb -load $HOME/.Xresources xmodmap $HOME/.Xmodmap xterm -sb -rightbar -geometry 80x48 & exec quartz-wm When you press "delete" in an xterm, it deletes a character to the left. When you ssh from there, it sends a \x7f to the remote process when you press delete. When you invoke a local X app like Emacs or XEmacs, pressing delete deletes one character to the left. ------------ Q: Two ways to get ssh X11 forwarding from Apple's X11 xterm: A: 1. [mac:~] me% ssh -X -v -l me remote.example.com 2. Uncomment 'Host ' and 'ForwardX11 yes' systemwide in /private/etc ssh_config or by user in ~/.ssh/config. [mac:~] me% ssh -v -l me remote.example.com ----------------------- Q: Two ways to get ssh X11 forwarding from an Apple Terminal: A: 1. [mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 no_auth true [mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 nolisten_tcp false <start Apple's X11> [mac:~] me% env DISPLAY=:0.0 ssh -X -v -l me remote.example.com 2. Uncomment 'Host ' and 'ForwardX11 yes' systemwide in /private/etc ssh_config or by user in ~/.ssh/config. [mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 no_auth true [mac:~] me% defaults write com.apple.x11 nolisten_tcp false <start Apple's X11> [mac:~] me% env DISPLAY=:0.0 ssh -v -l me remote.example.com ----------------------- Q: If I install Gimp with Fink will it work with Apple X11? A: Yes, it will work fine with Apple X11. If you have Fink and Apple's Developer Tools installed just run: 'sudo fink -y install gimp' ------------------------ Q: Trying to set the keyboard (which is US by default, even macOS X is set to swiss german) results in a bus error, what to do?: A: My first post in the FAQ mentions an easy workaround that works with most international keyboards. It is also possible to solve this problem by writing an appropriate .xmodmap file and adding to your ~/.xinitrc file: 'xmodmap ~/.xmodmap' With xmodmap (distributed with X11) you can run: xmodmap -pk > ~/keyboardcodes.txt and it will print a file with the codes and the corresponding characters. ------------------------ Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-12-2003 at 09:34 AM.*

01-12-2003, 10:22 PM	#4
maousse Prospect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: stinky cheese country Posts: 11	Keymapping solution Here is an app, called "X11 launcher" which allows an automatic keymapping configuration. Works now with french and german keyboard... X11 launcher (binary and source available) hope this could help

01-12-2003, 11:19 PM	#6
thatch All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 534	Glanz, I'm curious why you wish you didn't install Apple X11? I still like XDarwin too, but I haven't done the Apple X11 yet. Could you please let me know what changed your mind about Apple X11. Last edited by thatch; 01-13-2003 at 12:46 AM.

01-13-2003, 02:51 AM	#8
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	maousse, Thanks for the tip. I heard about X11 launcher. Cool little app. It becomes very useful if you are using a different keyboard with Apple X11 by allowing you to select the desired keyboard layout. Cheers...

01-13-2003, 04:01 PM	#12
thatch All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 534	Glanz, thanks for the reply. That's what I was looking for. I had my suspicions that there were a lot of problems and that the speed might be better but with a lot of crashes and other idiosyncrasies. So, I think I'll continue to hold off on this one. In the future though, I expect a better release of Apple X11 that will work together with other wm's well, etc... To all, I am a loyal Mac user since my first computer, a IIsi in 1989. I have to admit though, what Glanz says about Debian is intriguing. ...more later when I have more time.

01-16-2003, 09:34 PM	#13
thatch All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 534	Glanz, I know I could probably research this on my own and come up with the answers. But you have done all this already so, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on Debian a bit? Specifically, Debian is a form of linux, correct? And could Mac users put it on a spare partition to boot from without reformatting the partition into UFS? Once it's installed and running, could you then use all the same programs as we do with fink? TIA. Okay, I found some info about some of this here. But anything else you'd like to add would be helpful. Last edited by thatch; 01-17-2003 at 03:36 AM.