Apple X11 and Fink...How To

sao · 01-08-2003, 01:04 AM

If you have XFree86 installed with Fink, and you want to install X11 from Apple, I believe the way to do it, is as follows:

1- Remove the Fink versions first:

dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-base
dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-base-shlibs

and if you installed the rootless packages, also run:

dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-rootless
dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-rootless-shlibs

And if you have installed the 'xfree86-threaded' packages, do the same with -threaded. (Note that if you have apps that require threaded XFree86, you may have trouble with your dpkg database if you force remove it and install a different XFree86 package or placeholder package)

2- Download and install X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta SDK from here:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

3- Download and install x11 from Apple from here:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/

4- Install with Fink 'system-xfree86-4.2-3'

This is the version that will work. If you don't see it when you run 'fink list', then run:

'fink selfupdate-cvs'

or, if you are using binaries, run:

'sudo apt-get update'

*Do not download the "common toolkits" from OpenDarwin, they will likely interact poorly with Fink's installation.

And remember, if you don't remove the Fink versions first, the Apple installer will write over all your fink x11 packages with its own versions, as it says in the "README" - "Important Information":

<<"By default, the installer archives and then overwrites any
existing X11 configuration information. To preserve your
existing X11 configuration files, deselect the package named
X11 Configuration">>

Please, read the Fink site news on Apple X11 Binaries here:

http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/...p#apple-binary

Any problems, let me know.

Cheers...

ClarkGoble · 01-08-2003, 03:23 AM

The thing I don't understand is from the following from the Fink web site.

Also, make sure you download BOTH the SDK (linked from the main site), and the public beta files.

What are the public beta files that aren't part of the SDK. I was running my Fink apps with only the public beta (the 40 meg file). I just downloaded the SDK (the 3 meg file) so we'll see what it adds.

Glanz · 01-08-2003, 05:29 AM

What is the "quartz-wm" interface supposed to look like? Is it that green widget thingy bar, and that's it? Really, I do not see where this X11 is an advantage. I do not notice the least difference in speed. The only difference I see is a widget set more stark than even the OroborOSX one, which at least uses real aqua widgets instead of default X11 widgets. So what's the advantage.?This lacks a real window manager, it seems. It seems like a step backwards to me.

sao · 01-08-2003, 05:43 AM

Tips about Apple X11 from different sources:

First, please understand that Apple X11 public beta probably have still quite numerous bugs. So don't expect a perfect behaviour.

The only README file provided in the distribution is within the .pkg installer. If you want to read it, before/after installing, just control-click the package in the finder and "show package contents", then /Contents/Resources English.lproj/ReadMe.rtf

1- Copy/Paste (text):

command-C to copy in X, and control-v to paste

2- You don't need anymore autocutsel.

3- To bring back your meta key for use inside Fink's Emacs21 with 'Apple X11 and Quartz-wm':

On Preferences, disable "Enable key equivalents under X11". Then Cmd can be used for Meta.

And to force Emacs to use 'Option' instead of 'Command' for the Meta key:

Try in .emacs (setq mac-command-key-is-meta nil)

4- Xemacs used to complain about the meta key. Now with the X11.app it's gone.

5- The path in the xterm in X11.app when using quartz-wm as the window manager doesn't have /sw in the path:

Kill that xterm and start another one from your .xinitrc or from the Terminal.app command line. This will then have the right path.

6- quartz-wm "doesn't fully support" Gnome/KDE window manager hints, so you may see some strange behavior on windows that shouldn't have decorations, but do.

7- Apple's X11 is rootless only - no fullscreen mode.

Cheers...

sao · 01-08-2003, 06:03 AM

Quote:


	Glanz wrote: This lacks a real window manager, it seems.

I think you can use your own window manager. It will run a bit slower, that's all.

I didn't touch till now my main installation, it's too precious for me. I just installed Apple X11 Beta in my backup iMac, as I'm still testing. Let's see what I have left when the mud settles.

Cheers...

sao · 01-08-2003, 06:20 AM

ClarkGoble,

What I know is that if you don't install SDK, your installation with Fink of system-xfree86-4.2-3 will probably fail. So, it's important that people install both 'X11SDKForMacOSX' and the 'X11UserForMacOSX'

Cheers...

sao · 01-08-2003, 06:28 AM

Glanz,

This is a quite interesting post from Jeff Whitaker (Fink xfree86 packages maintainer) at the fink-dev list:

<<Apple's X11 will work with fink xfree86-4.2.1.1 on 10.2.3. I tested this by installing xfree86-base, xfree86-rootless (and shlibs), then copying over /Applications/X11.app, /usr/X11R6/bin/Xquartz, /usr/X11R6/bin/quartz-wm and /usr/X11R6/lib/libapplexp.1.0.dylib from an Apple X11 installation.

Double click on the X11 icon in /Applications, and voila, quartz-wm fires up. Not as fast as running the full Apple installation though, but I suspect once xfree86 4.3 is released there won't be a noticeable difference. Would be nice if someone would package up just those files from Apple's X11, as alternative to OroborusX. >>

Cheers...

Glanz · 01-08-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao Glanz, This is a quite interesting post from Jeff Whitaker Cheers...

Thanks... I found the problem! I have a development folder in which I am working on Open Office... not the one provided by OO for OSX, but source that I am porting differently after having ported to QNX. I had to eliminate some paths there and restart. After, I redid the paths and everything works fine. My system is a real labyrinth.

In any case, the Aqua widgets are now activated after the restart.. Everything works fine. Now all I have to do is make an app launching folder for this. One thing I can't figure out is why X11 is easier to work with on a mac than on Linux. That is to say, on Linux, each distro has its specifics, its glitches and its linkings. Now under OSX, this all seems to be more direct, easier to customize and more user controllable, like with NetBSD or FreeBSD. Oh well, I never thought I'd see the day when the BSDs, including Darwin became easier to customize than Linux, but this seems to be the case now.

There are several noticeable differences. The most striking of which is the scrolling. It is now much smoother. And yes...., certain applications launch faster.

[an hour later] In fact ALL applications launch faster. This is getting interesting! BTW... to use ROX, with this, you must create a "Choices" folder in ~/.... That's where ROX keeps configs.

bluehz · 01-08-2003, 09:20 AM

Still not completely understanding the whole PATH issue.

I reinstated my .xinitrc file for use with Apple-X11 and had it fire up an xterm - the path is correct in that ONE xterm. Anything else - for example if you launch another xterm with X11 reverts back to the stock Apple-X11 path - which does not work for most stuff. How do we get the systemwide path into Apple-X11?

Glanz · 01-08-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by bluehz Still not completely understanding the whole PATH issue. How do we get the systemwide path into Apple-X11?

Don't worry too much about paths. You should have "/usr/X11R6/bin/quartz-wm" in the ~/.xinitrc file. ... no matter which line as long as the others are hashed out. For example, if you wanted to start another WM using Apple's X11, the path would go like this: "exec /sw/bin/wmaker" instead of quartz-wm.

If you want to add applications to the "Applications" menu on the top bar when running Apple X11, click "customize", then "add item". You will see two columns, one for "name" and one for "command". You must double click in the space reserved for "name" to open a cursor in the name field, likewise for "command". The only ones for which you do not have to write the full path are the inherent X11 apps such as xterm, rxvt, xedplus, xedit, etc. The others require full paths, for example "/sw/bin/eterm -e pine", "/sw/bin/nedit", "xterm -e /sw/bin/mc", "/sw/bin/galeon", etc, etc.

bluehz · 01-08-2003, 10:39 AM

Its not so much I am worried about it - but some things are broken without correct path. for example - the basic path for my bin ~/bin is not in the path. I keep a lot of custom stuff in there. I really don't want to have to type full-paths for everything. There must be a solution somewhere. I mean its getting/setting the path somewhere...

sao · 01-08-2003, 10:51 AM

Glanz,

You asked me in another thread:

Quote:


	must I delete the XFree currently on my system plus "xaw3d & xaw3d-shlibs" (to be reinstalled later)

No, in November last year, Jeff Whitaker updated the xaw3d packages, and since then, they dont live outside /sw anymore (they used to live in /usr/X11R6).

dpkg -L xaw3d
dpkg -L xaw3d-shlibs

Cheers...

carl · 01-08-2003, 10:58 AM

bluehz:

Have you put your alterations to the path in the configuration file for your term? (.cshrc/.tschrc/.bashrc/whatever)

This is how I have set it up here and it's working fine, both from launching a term in .xinitrc and from the Applications menu.

Glanz · 01-08-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by sao dpkg -L xaw3d dpkg -L xaw3d-shlibs Cheers...

Thank you once again Sao...... I took a chance and everything went all right.

I now have my system configured on an "either/or" basis: XDarwin or Apple X11 plus a pure /"usr/local" Darwin that doesn't conflict with Fink. T'was Merv who pointed the way via the use of multiple shells.

I am sure glad you're around as this X11 thing gets ironed out for everyone. To me, this is really big news.

sao · 01-08-2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:


	bluehz wrote: Anything else - for example if you launch another xterm with X11 reverts back to the stock Apple-X11 path

This is one of the bugs of this public beta. It just loves to start the xterm before reading the .xinitrc file.

Cheers...

bluehz · 01-08-2003, 11:38 AM

So is it necessary to alter the previous install of Xfree? I spent months getting that thing to work properly. Really kinda makes my skin crawl thinking of messing with it.

I just ran the Apple-X11 installer and other than the path issue - all is well. Although - I think I read that the Apple-X11 installer probably already overwrote some of my other stuff.

sao · 01-08-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:


	Glanz wrote: I now have my system configured on an "either/or" basis: XDarwin or Apple X11

Does it work well for you?

'Born to be wild'...have you tried running blackbox with four virtual desktops on top of Apple (rootless) X11?

Or, have you tried running both XDarwin rooted (fullscreen) and Apple's X11 which is only rootless?

(without destroying your system...

)

Cheers...

macmath · 01-08-2003, 11:45 AM

I did as in the first post of this thread, removing all 4 items, and installing both the x11 sdk and x11 itself. Upon trying to install system-xfree86 I get the following

----
Information about 1986 packages read in 2 seconds.

pkg system-xfree86 version 4.2-3
The following package will be installed or updated:
system-xfree86
dpkg -i /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb
(Reading database ... 7170 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking system-xfree86 (from .../system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb) ...

dpkg: error processing /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (--install):
subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
/sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb
### execution of dpkg failed, exit code 1
Failed: can't install package system-xfree86-4.2-3
-----

How do I work around this, please?

Thanks.

sao · 01-08-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:


	bluehz wrote: I think I read that the Apple-X11 installer probably already overwrote some of my other stuff.

Before running the installer, did you remove the Fink versions first?

Cheers...

bluehz · 01-08-2003, 11:56 AM

Anyone else notice that you are not able to HIDE the Apple-X11 in the background. Hopefully this will be rectified in the final.

01-08-2003, 01:04 AM	#1
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Apple X11 and Fink...How To If you have XFree86 installed with Fink, and you want to install X11 from Apple, I believe the way to do it, is as follows: 1- Remove the Fink versions first: dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-base dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-base-shlibs and if you installed the rootless packages, also run: dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-rootless dpkg -r --force-depends xfree86-rootless-shlibs And if you have installed the 'xfree86-threaded' packages, do the same with -threaded. (Note that if you have apps that require threaded XFree86, you may have trouble with your dpkg database if you force remove it and install a different XFree86 package or placeholder package) 2- Download and install X11 for Mac OS X Public Beta SDK from here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/ 3- Download and install x11 from Apple from here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/ 4- Install with Fink 'system-xfree86-4.2-3' This is the version that will work. If you don't see it when you run 'fink list', then run: 'fink selfupdate-cvs' or, if you are using binaries, run: 'sudo apt-get update' Do not download the "common toolkits" from OpenDarwin, they will likely interact poorly with Fink's installation. And remember, if you don't remove the Fink versions first, the Apple installer will write over all your fink x11 packages with its own versions, as it says in the "README" - "Important Information": <<"By default, the installer archives and then overwrites any existing X11 configuration information. To preserve your existing X11 configuration files, deselect the package named X11 Configuration">> Please, read the Fink site news on Apple X11 Binaries here: http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/...p#apple-binary Any problems, let me know. Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-08-2003 at 11:04 AM.*

01-08-2003, 03:23 AM	#2
ClarkGoble Triple-A Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 58	The thing I don't understand is from the following from the Fink web site. Also, make sure you download BOTH the SDK (linked from the main site), and the public beta files. What are the public beta files that aren't part of the SDK. I was running my Fink apps with only the public beta (the 40 meg file). I just downloaded the SDK (the 3 meg file) so we'll see what it adds. Last edited by ClarkGoble; 01-08-2003 at 03:26 AM.

01-08-2003, 05:43 AM	#4
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Tips about Apple X11 from different sources: First, please understand that Apple X11 public beta probably have still quite numerous bugs. So don't expect a perfect behaviour. The only README file provided in the distribution is within the .pkg installer. If you want to read it, before/after installing, just control-click the package in the finder and "show package contents", then /Contents/Resources English.lproj/ReadMe.rtf 1- Copy/Paste (text): command-C to copy in X, and control-v to paste 2- You don't need anymore autocutsel. 3- To bring back your meta key for use inside Fink's Emacs21 with 'Apple X11 and Quartz-wm': On Preferences, disable "Enable key equivalents under X11". Then Cmd can be used for Meta. And to force Emacs to use 'Option' instead of 'Command' for the Meta key: Try in .emacs (setq mac-command-key-is-meta nil) 4- Xemacs used to complain about the meta key. Now with the X11.app it's gone. 5- The path in the xterm in X11.app when using quartz-wm as the window manager doesn't have /sw in the path: Kill that xterm and start another one from your .xinitrc or from the Terminal.app command line. This will then have the right path. 6- quartz-wm "doesn't fully support" Gnome/KDE window manager hints, so you may see some strange behavior on windows that shouldn't have decorations, but do. 7- Apple's X11 is rootless only - no fullscreen mode. Cheers... Last edited by sao; 01-08-2003 at 01:15 PM.

01-08-2003, 11:45 AM	#18
macmath MVP Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 1,497	Error installing system-xfree86-4.2-3 I did as in the first post of this thread, removing all 4 items, and installing both the x11 sdk and x11 itself. Upon trying to install system-xfree86 I get the following ---- Information about 1986 packages read in 2 seconds. pkg system-xfree86 version 4.2-3 The following package will be installed or updated: system-xfree86 dpkg -i /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (Reading database ... 7170 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking system-xfree86 (from .../system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb) ... dpkg: error processing /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (--install): subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/x11-system/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb ### execution of dpkg failed, exit code 1 Failed: can't install package system-xfree86-4.2-3 ----- How do I work around this, please? Thanks.

01-08-2003, 05:29 AM	#3
Glanz Major Leaguer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 373	What is the "quartz-wm" interface supposed to look like? Is it that green widget thingy bar, and that's it? Really, I do not see where this X11 is an advantage. I do not notice the least difference in speed. The only difference I see is a widget set more stark than even the OroborOSX one, which at least uses real aqua widgets instead of default X11 widgets. So what's the advantage.?This lacks a real window manager, it seems. It seems like a step backwards to me.

01-08-2003, 06:20 AM	#6
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	ClarkGoble, What I know is that if you don't install SDK, your installation with Fink of system-xfree86-4.2-3 will probably fail. So, it's important that people install both 'X11SDKForMacOSX' and the 'X11UserForMacOSX' Cheers...

01-08-2003, 06:28 AM	#7
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	Glanz, This is a quite interesting post from Jeff Whitaker (Fink xfree86 packages maintainer) at the fink-dev list: <<Apple's X11 will work with fink xfree86-4.2.1.1 on 10.2.3. I tested this by installing xfree86-base, xfree86-rootless (and shlibs), then copying over /Applications/X11.app, /usr/X11R6/bin/Xquartz, /usr/X11R6/bin/quartz-wm and /usr/X11R6/lib/libapplexp.1.0.dylib from an Apple X11 installation. Double click on the X11 icon in /Applications, and voila, quartz-wm fires up. Not as fast as running the full Apple installation though, but I suspect once xfree86 4.3 is released there won't be a noticeable difference. Would be nice if someone would package up just those files from Apple's X11, as alternative to OroborusX. >> Cheers...

01-08-2003, 09:20 AM	#9
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	Still not completely understanding the whole PATH issue. I reinstated my .xinitrc file for use with Apple-X11 and had it fire up an xterm - the path is correct in that ONE xterm. Anything else - for example if you launch another xterm with X11 reverts back to the stock Apple-X11 path - which does not work for most stuff. How do we get the systemwide path into Apple-X11?

01-08-2003, 10:39 AM	#11
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	Its not so much I am worried about it - but some things are broken without correct path. for example - the basic path for my bin ~/bin is not in the path. I keep a lot of custom stuff in there. I really don't want to have to type full-paths for everything. There must be a solution somewhere. I mean its getting/setting the path somewhere...

01-08-2003, 10:58 AM	#13
carl Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 14	bluehz: Have you put your alterations to the path in the configuration file for your term? (.cshrc/.tschrc/.bashrc/whatever) This is how I have set it up here and it's working fine, both from launching a term in .xinitrc and from the Applications menu.

01-08-2003, 11:38 AM	#16
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	So is it necessary to alter the previous install of Xfree? I spent months getting that thing to work properly. Really kinda makes my skin crawl thinking of messing with it. I just ran the Apple-X11 installer and other than the path issue - all is well. Although - I think I read that the Apple-X11 installer probably already overwrote some of my other stuff.

01-08-2003, 11:56 AM	#20
bluehz MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,562	Anyone else notice that you are not able to HIDE the Apple-X11 in the background. Hopefully this will be rectified in the final.