DSL Spliter Advice

bluzhorn · 07-08-2002, 11:32 AM

Hi I have two computers now (G4 933 and iBook) and I don't want to have to pay extra for the other computer to use my DSL service. I know I can use a spliter but I'm wondering if anybody has any recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

Daniel Dorrance

eagle_eyes · 07-08-2002, 12:08 PM

Get a router... Belkin, D-Link, Lynksis (Spelled wrong?), they are all pretty much the same, and none have the best mac support but ussually work just fine. I personally partial to the Airport Basestation, makes it possible to go wireless. Then just get a hub (or switch) if you want to share with multiple land lines (ie non wireless).

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 12:43 PM

a router is a good investment.

splitter? is this DSL modem an ethernet device? if so, then an ethernet hub could "split" the cables, but i'm not sure how the modem would like that without a router.

pay extra? what do you mean by this? another ISP account fee or purchase the hardware to get the job done?

you've got some homework to do before you can go any further.

bluzhorn · 07-08-2002, 12:47 PM

Thank for the reply...yes it's a router that I was thinking of. I know that's what I need but I wanted to get some recommendations before I buy.

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 01:06 PM

here's your homework...

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/list.asp?p=1

i "found" an Xsense 4-port router at work. it was being used as a paperweight. it's worked just fine, and my internal LAN is a black hole on the internet, very safe. it's not a very featureful router, tho.

i've considered a netgear router recently because it can do logging, a very nice feature.

linksys has churned out a lot of firmware updates, and i don't know if that's a sign of buggy product or new feature-itis.

avoid belkin, vertical routers, other 'wal-mart' brands, and the cheapest routers, me thinks.

JayBee · 07-08-2002, 02:16 PM

After merv's case study, I got myself a NetGear router. Installation was a snap - faster than ANYONE I know who's tried a modem on its own - and its admin tools are very powerful.

Here's a link to the NetGear router that's currently keeping the space above my phone socket occupied.

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 02:47 PM

JayBee, thanx, most excellent.

the other day, i was called by some bozos who were having unending troubles with their DSL<->netgear router config, ISP = double-plus bozos SBC (pacific bell)

SBC's pudknockers had come out and completely discombobulated the router config and erased some poor shmuck's laptop drive in the process! can you believe it?! they failed, shrugged, and left.

anyhow, i couldn't figure out SBC's stupid configs, and didn't want to call them (the telco's are really braindead in this arena) so, i called netgear, and two minutes later, all clients in the house had a hose to the internet.

good product, good support.

looks like you can get one of these netgear routers for 80-90 bones...

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...af5cce01e3c0a5

hschickel · 07-08-2002, 02:59 PM

Mostly recycled from an earlier post:

Get a router. This will solve untold connection problems and give you a hardware firewall as an added bonus.

Note that if you are using the machines for filesharing a switch will give you a speed boost over a hub.

Some options:

XSense - Inexpensive, provides Mac support. Most models include a 10/100 4 port hub. Configurable via web browser.
Linksys - Inexpensive, no Mac support. Most models include a 10/100 4 port switch. Configurable via web browser. Probably the best value for your money: ~$60 for a basic model.
Netopia - Expensive. Full featured. Very high end support. Highly configurable via command line and tftp. Most models include a slow 4 port hub so a fast hub or switch would be desirable for filesharing at additional expense.

I've had success with all of the above. Most home users should probably look first at the Linksys and then at the XSense if they specifically need Mac support. Business users or users with complex routing needs may need the extra features that come only with the Netopia routers. I cannot personally speak to the NetGear equipment mentioned by merv - but I would trust just about anything he says.

Hugh

wayneyoung · 07-08-2002, 04:11 PM

When you do this, bare in mind your ISP can still tell what you are doing, and that you have multiple machines connected. They may then want to charge you for multiple connections. To solve this, make sure your computers have the same MAC address as the router.

bluzhorn · 07-08-2002, 04:53 PM

Thanks for the help...much appreciated!

JayBee · 07-08-2002, 05:02 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by wayneyoung When you do this, bare in mind your ISP can still tell what you are doing, and that you have multiple machines connected. They may then want to charge you for multiple connections. To solve this, make sure your computers have the same MAC address as the router.

Really? I thought having my router set up to mask my LAN meant that only my router appeared to the net. If my ISP can see my internal network, doesn't that mean that theoretically anyone can see what I'm doing behind my router?

Eep! Better clear the pr0n off the old PC!

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 05:06 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by wayneyoung ...make sure your computers have the same MAC address as the router.

i'm not sure that this is very good advice.

you may want/need your router to spoof an official MAC address that some ISP's may require you to register.

but don't go monkeying with your rig's MAC addresses.

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 05:18 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by JayBee ...If my ISP can see my internal network, doesn't that mean that theoretically anyone can see what I'm doing behind my router?...

your ISP can't see your internal network. but, packets from different machines on your LAN may have their MAC addresses embedded in them. therefore, an ISP could see that your hosting multiple machines on the pipe, and, depending on their policy, ask you to pony up the dough. if they do, find a new ISP. that'll teach 'em.

the netgear router has a config to 'spoof' a MAC address ! ha ha ISPs

scotty, you can test your router's "black-hole-ness" at "shields up!" ...

https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

test your shields - probe your ports - secure your pr0n

--
Marketing firms noted that the Ford Probe was popular in the 18-35 year old female demographic

wayneyoung · 07-08-2002, 05:35 PM

Sorry, I phrased it wrong. Thanks for the catch Merv! The correct term is MAC address cloning. You are not actually changing the address on your computer, but in the router. The following is some information from the Linksys website:

MAC Address Cloning: MAC Address cloning allows the user to reassign the MAC Address to avoid registering the MAC Address to the ISP. Some ISP requires registration so the computer can Obtain an IP Address and then allow to connect to the Internet. MAC Address is a unique 48-bit number assigned to each Ethernet network adapter and maintained by the IEEE. Please do not use the MAC Address used in the User Guide because duplicate MAC address can adversely effect the ISP and the Internet you are connected to. Not all ISP require configuration of the MAC Address. It is recommended that you check with the ISP for advice. This Page explains the procedure in greater detail.

The greater detail info is here http://www.linksys.com/support/support.asp?spid=93

This covers windows. Do the following for a Macintosh.

Note - This is only for Apple Computers with OS 8.5 and higher

To find the MAC Address of an Ethernet equipped Apple computer:

1) Select System Profiler under the Apple menu.

2) In System Profiler, select Network Overview.

3) In Network Overview, select Open Transport.

4) Go to Active Network Ports.

5) Look at the Hardware Address for the ethernet. It should begin with 00.

Alternatively, the MAC Address on wired network equipped Apple computers, can be located on the label with the serial number. For Blue and White G3 and Platinum G4 towers, this sticker is located on the back of the unit. For first generation iMac computers, this is located in the door on the keyboard-plug side of the computer. For newer generation models, such as the DV, the label should be on the unit's bottom.

mervTormel · 07-08-2002, 05:52 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by wayneyoung ...To find the MAC Address of an Ethernet equipped Apple computer: 1) Select System Profiler under the Apple menu. 2) In System Profiler, select Network Overview. 3) In Network Overview, select Open Transport. 4) Go to Active Network Ports. 5) Look at the Hardware Address for the ethernet. It should begin with 00. Alternatively, the MAC Address on...

yeah, you could do all that, or, pop into the shell and, presto...

Code:

% ifconfig -a

lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
        inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 
en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 192.168.1.50 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255
        ether 00:xx:65:xx:a5:xx 
        media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>) status: active
        supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP <half-duplex> 
        blah blah blah

# or

% AppleSystemProfiler -e

------- Apple System Profiler Tool v1.0.42 ----------

System version = Mac OS X 10.1.5 (5S66)
------ Ethernet -----
  Where = Built-in
  flags = =8863<UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST>
  Ethernet address = 00.xx.65.xx.A5.xx
  IP = 192.168.1.50
  netmask = 0xffffff00
  broadcast = 192.168.1.255
    ---------------

the cloning technique is also called MAC address spoofing.

saint.duo · 07-08-2002, 07:53 PM

I have the linksys BEFSR something or other with the 4-port 10/100 switch. it has a feature to do MAC address cloning. Also, it has a feature that I THINK is a way to block your internal (LAN) MAC addresses from getting through to the internet (WAN). Though, I could be wrong on the second point.

There's basic mac instructions in the box, and for simple NAT setup, works fine. I threw the easy setup out the window, and am using an advanced setup to port map to various machines, as I have a couple of servers, and need to do ARD from work to home.

Also, my DSL provider rules. They use DHCP, and not PPPoE. They don't care if I'm using a router, and don't care how many machines I have on the connection. Their techs recognized the router, had not used a Macintosh before but weren't against it, didn't write it off as "incompatible", and actually figured out how to set up the network preferences in X, with me just watching to make sure they didn't mess up my stuff. The ISP's license agreement basically says that they don't care what you do with the connection, as long as you are responsible for what you do on it. I've heard reports of other techs from them being just as kind and smart. To them, you're paying them for the physical link and bandwidth, email, plus support for their equipment, and that's it. Very cool.
FYI, they are SCTelcom of Kansas, and I highly recommend them. (no, i don't work for them, I'm just an elated customer!)

BuddahBobb · 07-20-2002, 05:11 PM

may i ask what dsl provider you are using?

this thread is interesting to me, i have been thinking of getting earthlink dsl and putting it through a router so my dad can use the connection as well, do they allow this?

if they dont can i set the router to be the same address as the mac so they cant tell?

is earthlink dsl a good service?

phidauex · 07-22-2002, 12:22 AM

Not to shamelessly plug my ISP, but I have been using Speakeasy.net for the better part of a year, and have a 684k/128k circuit, with 3 static IPs (you can have as many as you want, some plans have them included, and you can buy extras for like 3 bucks a month) and I have been very satisfied with them. Their service is as fast as they say it is, i've had no downtime over a couple minutes (and even that has been very rare). While many broadband providers have moved to the ridiculous idea of ONE computer, NO servers, "Using a wireless access point is tantamount to THEFT" crap, speakeasy allows you to do whatever you want with the bandwidth, they don't block ports or anything. That means no messing with the MAC addresses or anything, you are kosher to do whatever you want with your circuit.

You can run servers, share wireless connections with friends, use as many computers as you want, etc. They sell you the always on (no PPPoE) bandwidth, and its up to you how you use it. Very respectable for a broadband provider.

Anyways, not to make this plug even more shameless, but if anyone decides to use their service, they should use this link: http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/ley so I get a referal

peace,
phidauex

BuddahBobb · 07-22-2002, 01:12 AM

i just ordered earthlink the other day cant wait

ive heard good things about earthlink in my area, and my dial up from them has always been above avg, so im hopin

i have a few questions, im thinking of getting a linksys router, and having the connection go to my mac running osx, a pc running win98 and another running winxp, how do i set up firewalls etc, does that come with the linksys?

cant wait!

nkuvu · 07-22-2002, 01:57 PM

From what I understand (I'm just learning myself) the router is a hardware firewall, which is better than a software firewall.

OS X has a built in software firewall, which you can use by invoking ipfw with the proper arguments. Or you can use a GUI front end like BrickHouse, which is what I did. It took me 30 seconds to set up a firewall on my current connection so that my computer is a black hole according to the ShieldsUp test mentioned previously.

Earthlink is currently doing a deal where you get ZoneAlarm firewall software (for PCs), so that should take care of the software firewall on that end.

IMO, it's better to have a combination of both rather than just one. Since the software part is free (well, BrickHouse is shareware, $25) just adding a router will increase your security.

07-08-2002, 11:32 AM	#1
bluzhorn Prospect Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York Posts: 32	DSL Spliter Advice Hi I have two computers now (G4 933 and iBook) and I don't want to have to pay extra for the other computer to use my DSL service. I know I can use a spliter but I'm wondering if anybody has any recommendations. Thanks in advance. Daniel Dorrance

07-08-2002, 12:08 PM	#2
eagle_eyes Triple-A Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 116	Router.... Get a router... Belkin, D-Link, Lynksis (Spelled wrong?), they are all pretty much the same, and none have the best mac support but ussually work just fine. I personally partial to the Airport Basestation, makes it possible to go wireless. Then just get a hub (or switch) if you want to share with multiple land lines (ie non wireless).

07-08-2002, 12:43 PM	#3
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	splitter? a router is a good investment. splitter? is this DSL modem an ethernet device? if so, then an ethernet hub could "split" the cables, but i'm not sure how the modem would like that without a router. pay extra? what do you mean by this? another ISP account fee or purchase the hardware to get the job done? you've got some homework to do before you can go any further.

07-08-2002, 12:47 PM	#4
bluzhorn Prospect Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York Posts: 32	It's a router Thank for the reply...yes it's a router that I was thinking of. I know that's what I need but I wanted to get some recommendations before I buy.

07-08-2002, 02:16 PM	#6
JayBee Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 437	After merv's case study, I got myself a NetGear router. Installation was a snap - faster than ANYONE I know who's tried a modem on its own - and its admin tools are very powerful. Here's a link to the NetGear router that's currently keeping the space above my phone socket occupied. __________________ JayBee -- It's all relative, you know

07-08-2002, 01:06 PM	#5
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	here's your homework... http://www.practicallynetworked.com/list.asp?p=1 i "found" an Xsense 4-port router at work. it was being used as a paperweight. it's worked just fine, and my internal LAN is a black hole on the internet, very safe. it's not a very featureful router, tho. i've considered a netgear router recently because it can do logging, a very nice feature. linksys has churned out a lot of firmware updates, and i don't know if that's a sign of buggy product or new feature-itis. avoid belkin, vertical routers, other 'wal-mart' brands, and the cheapest routers, me thinks.

07-08-2002, 02:47 PM	#7
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	JayBee, thanx, most excellent. the other day, i was called by some bozos who were having unending troubles with their DSL<->netgear router config, ISP = double-plus bozos SBC (pacific bell) SBC's pudknockers had come out and completely discombobulated the router config and erased some poor shmuck's laptop drive in the process! can you believe it?! they failed, shrugged, and left. anyhow, i couldn't figure out SBC's stupid configs, and didn't want to call them (the telco's are really braindead in this arena) so, i called netgear, and two minutes later, all clients in the house had a hose to the internet. good product, good support. looks like you can get one of these netgear routers for 80-90 bones... http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...af5cce01e3c0a5

07-08-2002, 02:59 PM	#8
hschickel All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NY, NY Posts: 776	Mostly recycled from an earlier post: Get a router. This will solve untold connection problems and give you a hardware firewall as an added bonus. Note that if you are using the machines for filesharing a switch will give you a speed boost over a hub. Some options: XSense - Inexpensive, provides Mac support. Most models include a 10/100 4 port hub. Configurable via web browser. Linksys - Inexpensive, no Mac support. Most models include a 10/100 4 port switch. Configurable via web browser. Probably the best value for your money: ~$60 for a basic model. Netopia - Expensive. Full featured. Very high end support. Highly configurable via command line and tftp. Most models include a slow 4 port hub so a fast hub or switch would be desirable for filesharing at additional expense. I've had success with all of the above. Most home users should probably look first at the Linksys and then at the XSense if they specifically need Mac support. Business users or users with complex routing needs may need the extra features that come only with the Netopia routers. I cannot personally speak to the NetGear equipment mentioned by merv - but I would trust just about anything he says. Hugh __________________ First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

07-08-2002, 04:11 PM	#9
wayneyoung Triple-A Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 216	When you do this, bare in mind your ISP can still tell what you are doing, and that you have multiple machines connected. They may then want to charge you for multiple connections. To solve this, make sure your computers have the same MAC address as the router.

07-08-2002, 04:53 PM	#10
bluzhorn Prospect Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York Posts: 32	Thanks for the help...much appreciated!

07-08-2002, 05:35 PM	#14
wayneyoung Triple-A Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 216	Sorry, I phrased it wrong. Thanks for the catch Merv! The correct term is MAC address cloning. You are not actually changing the address on your computer, but in the router. The following is some information from the Linksys website: MAC Address Cloning: MAC Address cloning allows the user to reassign the MAC Address to avoid registering the MAC Address to the ISP. Some ISP requires registration so the computer can Obtain an IP Address and then allow to connect to the Internet. MAC Address is a unique 48-bit number assigned to each Ethernet network adapter and maintained by the IEEE. Please do not use the MAC Address used in the User Guide because duplicate MAC address can adversely effect the ISP and the Internet you are connected to. Not all ISP require configuration of the MAC Address. It is recommended that you check with the ISP for advice. This Page explains the procedure in greater detail. The greater detail info is here http://www.linksys.com/support/support.asp?spid=93 This covers windows. Do the following for a Macintosh. Note - This is only for Apple Computers with OS 8.5 and higher To find the MAC Address of an Ethernet equipped Apple computer: 1) Select System Profiler under the Apple menu. 2) In System Profiler, select Network Overview. 3) In Network Overview, select Open Transport. 4) Go to Active Network Ports. 5) Look at the Hardware Address for the ethernet. It should begin with 00. Alternatively, the MAC Address on wired network equipped Apple computers, can be located on the label with the serial number. For Blue and White G3 and Platinum G4 towers, this sticker is located on the back of the unit. For first generation iMac computers, this is located in the door on the keyboard-plug side of the computer. For newer generation models, such as the DV, the label should be on the unit's bottom.

07-08-2002, 07:53 PM	#16
saint.duo MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,084	Linksys features... I have the linksys BEFSR something or other with the 4-port 10/100 switch. it has a feature to do MAC address cloning. Also, it has a feature that I THINK is a way to block your internal (LAN) MAC addresses from getting through to the internet (WAN). Though, I could be wrong on the second point. There's basic mac instructions in the box, and for simple NAT setup, works fine. I threw the easy setup out the window, and am using an advanced setup to port map to various machines, as I have a couple of servers, and need to do ARD from work to home. Also, my DSL provider rules. They use DHCP, and not PPPoE. They don't care if I'm using a router, and don't care how many machines I have on the connection. Their techs recognized the router, had not used a Macintosh before but weren't against it, didn't write it off as "incompatible", and actually figured out how to set up the network preferences in X, with me just watching to make sure they didn't mess up my stuff. The ISP's license agreement basically says that they don't care what you do with the connection, as long as you are responsible for what you do on it. I've heard reports of other techs from them being just as kind and smart. To them, you're paying them for the physical link and bandwidth, email, plus support for their equipment, and that's it. Very cool. FYI, they are SCTelcom of Kansas, and I highly recommend them. (no, i don't work for them, I'm just an elated customer!)

07-20-2002, 05:11 PM	#17
BuddahBobb Prospect Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: La Mesa, CA 91941 Posts: 30	may i ask what dsl provider you are using? this thread is interesting to me, i have been thinking of getting earthlink dsl and putting it through a router so my dad can use the connection as well, do they allow this? if they dont can i set the router to be the same address as the mac so they cant tell? is earthlink dsl a good service? __________________ http://www.jasonharbourdesign.com/

07-22-2002, 12:22 AM	#18
phidauex Prospect Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 37	Not to shamelessly plug my ISP, but I have been using Speakeasy.net for the better part of a year, and have a 684k/128k circuit, with 3 static IPs (you can have as many as you want, some plans have them included, and you can buy extras for like 3 bucks a month) and I have been very satisfied with them. Their service is as fast as they say it is, i've had no downtime over a couple minutes (and even that has been very rare). While many broadband providers have moved to the ridiculous idea of ONE computer, NO servers, "Using a wireless access point is tantamount to THEFT" crap, speakeasy allows you to do whatever you want with the bandwidth, they don't block ports or anything. That means no messing with the MAC addresses or anything, you are kosher to do whatever you want with your circuit. You can run servers, share wireless connections with friends, use as many computers as you want, etc. They sell you the always on (no PPPoE) bandwidth, and its up to you how you use it. Very respectable for a broadband provider. Anyways, not to make this plug even more shameless, but if anyone decides to use their service, they should use this link: http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/ley so I get a referal peace, phidauex

07-22-2002, 01:12 AM	#19
BuddahBobb Prospect Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: La Mesa, CA 91941 Posts: 30	i just ordered earthlink the other day cant wait ive heard good things about earthlink in my area, and my dial up from them has always been above avg, so im hopin i have a few questions, im thinking of getting a linksys router, and having the connection go to my mac running osx, a pc running win98 and another running winxp, how do i set up firewalls etc, does that come with the linksys? cant wait! __________________ http://www.jasonharbourdesign.com/

07-22-2002, 01:57 PM	#20
nkuvu MVP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 1,236	From what I understand (I'm just learning myself) the router is a hardware firewall, which is better than a software firewall. OS X has a built in software firewall, which you can use by invoking ipfw with the proper arguments. Or you can use a GUI front end like BrickHouse, which is what I did. It took me 30 seconds to set up a firewall on my current connection so that my computer is a black hole according to the ShieldsUp test mentioned previously. Earthlink is currently doing a deal where you get ZoneAlarm firewall software (for PCs), so that should take care of the software firewall on that end. IMO, it's better to have a combination of both rather than just one. Since the software part is free (well, BrickHouse is shareware, $25) just adding a router will increase your security.