XWindows / XFree - whats all the hoopla?

[bluehz]

This may sound like a dumb question - but being the adventurous OS X space cadet that I am - I d/l and installed the XFree pkg to give a run of the XWindows that I hear so much about. Installed fine, fired it up...and for the life of me I don't know what it is used for or what its purpose is. Could some explain to me briefly what all the hoopla is about?

[sjoshi]

X-Windows is the GUI front end used on most Unix machines.
It was developed in mid-80's at MIT. Now that OS X has a unix
variant as its basis, the Open Source & unix people are naturally
excited about being able to port all those Unix programs to OS X.
By itself there is nothing interesting or sexy about X-Windows.

One interesting feature of X-Windows & XFree is that unix users are
now able to run XFree as the GUI front end on OS X (X-Server in X-Windows
terminology) to run programs across the net on a remote unix machine.

Take a look at Fink project on SourceForge.net site. Those folks have
ported lots of unix programs to OS X, and their packaging is also
very easy to use (by unix standards :-).

Hope that helps.
-- sjoshi

[bluehz]

Thanks - that was a great description. I think I understand now. Why is that any different than all the UNIX apps, etc I am comiling and running already on OS X. I mean I am having a blast with all the stuff out there with just a copy of OS X 10.1.3 and the Dev Tools.

[Cheerios]

not sure if this helps, but i've seen X-darwin used to remotely log into the Solaris servers, WITH the GUI, which adds quite a bit of functionality that you lose, just logging in with commandl line.

[mervTormel]

X-windows is a distributed network window manager. you can run an app on host A, with data from host B and display the results on host C, while logged in from host D. host S has gone out for more crab puffs.

also, it's a testament to the wholesome goodness of a unix host. there are many X-windows apps and if a unix boxen can't run X-windows, it has little credulity in the unix universe. it was a big win to get it ported to OSX.

OSX has not received certified Unix status yet. i don't know the criteria, but getting X-windows up and at 'em certainly get us around a corner in the cert requirements.

[sao]

bluehz,

Beside all the reasons given above and:

1. It's free = a freely redistributable open-source implementation of the X Window System.

2. Runs in many operating systems. UNIX(R) and UNIX-like operating systems such as Linux, all of the BSD variants, Sun Solaris x86, Mac OS X (via Darwin), as well as other platforms like OS/2 and Cygwin.

3. Is platform-independent, network-transparent and extensible.

4. You can customize your desktop environment and because is an open source project you can modify and update the system as it's best for you.

5. If you use fink to install, you have access to over 600 free packages to play around and keep you busy.

6. You will probably learn unix a little more...

And, in those moments, when you get tired of the Acqua GUI, you can jump easily to another world.


Cheers...

[bluehz]

Thanks for the info guys - just enough to make me not delete it. don't know what to do with it yet - but it might come in handy someday.

[JayBee]

heh - two words:

install gimp

[JayBee]

two more words

here's how

[sao]

bluehz,

With fink...

first I suggest you install a window manager, like window maker, icewm, blackbox, or others.

Then, install xmms, and you will have music for your new environment.

Lame for encoding mp3

The GIMP and ImageMagick for your graphics needs.

Abiword and lyx for wordprocessing needs.

lynx and mozilla for surfing the web.

Xemacs as your text editor.

And etc.etc...

Cheers...

[bluehz]

sao - thats not all that convincing an argument I hate to say...

I have Lame compiled and installed for OS X, I have all the high-end graphic apps I can possibly need ( I am a graphic/multimedia designer by trade) for OS X, I have all the OS X compatible word processors and web browsers I could possibly need. Pretty much anything I want I can find in OpenSource and compile and install myself. I am just not understanding the benefits of XWindows over things I can normally do within the OS X environ anyway. Only thing that has been mentioned that sounds vaguely useful is logging into remote machine (not Mac) and commanding them. I have all the remote stuff I need for logging into other Macs (Timbuktu, SSH, VNC).

Sorry - not trying to play the devils advocate here - I am just failing to see the benefits over what I already have.

[Craig R. Arko]

Sounds like maybe there are no extra benefits for you; I expect the overwhelming majority of Mac OS X users will be in about the same situation.

For those of us who use X11, it's pretty much just a key to another collection of applications. If you don't use the apps, you probably don't need the key.

[bluehz]

Makes sense - thanks for the information.

[sao]

bluehz,

I understand you well. You are set and obviously find no practical benefits. I really don't know what to tell you, except to say, that in your case you're absolutely right.

And, like Craig R. Arko says, the overwhelming majority of Mac OS X users will be in about the same situation.

(I don't know why, it makes me remember, when I asked friends using windows to try the Mac. They always answered me that they already had all they needed.)

It's all in the love of cars or horses, I guess.

You see, I love to ride, and I will ride a new horse, even when I have my own (that I know very well), just for the joy of riding, feeling how it handles, the difference in character, speed and habits, and the fun of riding a horse that I met for the first time.

To see my performance, and how well can I can handle the situation. And if a horse it's given to me for free, I would love the horse as my own. And will try my most, that my two horses know each other well. Even if they are very different. Like a good family should be.

Of course, truth is, I don't need two horses. I can handle well with one.

It's just, that I love horses, really. But that's me.


Cheers...

[Opie]

There are some other reasons X is so loved.

1. Hackable: Many window managers are insanely hackable. Adding features is pretty easy; where the standards and stuff are not extremely well documented, they are extremely well understood. A good C programmer could build a basic window manager over a weekend.

2. Flexible: most people don't even realize there are other ways to handle the window focus model, for example. Most X window managers offer lots of different ways to deal with windows, which means you can get your working style down to a science. Because of #1, above, they're filled with lots of little hacks and mods that cover just about every possible situation. Sounds horrible, but how many list of things OSX needs get posted? THere are very few situations window managers ignore. Mostly, they ignore things by design.

3. Network transparency: I've got to restate it. You just don't know how great it is until you've really tasted it. Right now with 3 Macs (PB, B&W, iMac) I have to install the newest Mozilla 3 times. And sync bookmarks and prefs. And sync mail for my POP accounts. Or, instead, I can just connect to my linux box and run stuff over X, where it's always in the one place. If I need to travel, I just used rsync to take with me what I needed. At work, I say, "There's a new build of Mozilla on xserv" and instantly, everyone can log in and start using it, not download and install it.

4. Looks: Blasphemy in a Mac forum, I know. But Enlightenment, Sawfish, and WindowMaker are all really pretty. Compare with MS. Yeah, X wins. Where there was no OSX, we used X Window, or we used MS.

The big downside to X is: right now, hundreds of hackers are working very, very hard to drag it, kicking and screaming, into the 90's. It's somewhat archaic when compared to modern GUIs like Aqua and even WXP.

[stetner]

Maybe some day Apple will learn about virtual desktops from X.... sigh

[sao]

Besides...

the only one that said...

"XFree...what's all the hoopla" in this forum... was bluehz.


bluehz,

then...what's all the hoopla?

your previous posts..it's that all?

Well, good for you, now we know your abilities, necessities and benefits.


Cheers...

[sao]

For fun
because the Mets won
because you love San Francisco
because it's pretty
because it's the core
because it's in love with Darwin
because it's a new toy
because you'll grow (eventually)
because you never know
beacuse you don't need it
because you love flexibility
because you want more
because you want less
because it's also an X
because you love green
because graphics designers don't do it
because some they do
because you are against acid rain
because it has a gnome
because has a blackbox
because you can get enlightment
because you get an e or a or x term
because you don't want to get terminal.app sick
because it has a rootless canal and no dentist
because of U
because of sao
because you lighten up
because you hear a laugh
because you can still smile
because must surely have some use
because it's useless
because why not
because it's not closed up
because it's open source
because the source is open
because, because, because

ah my imagination runs wild when I hit my head against a concrete wall.

Imagination, this is all the benefit I search, without it, it's no worth to be alive or even call myself an artist.

And, like Douglas G. Stetner says in his signature, my opinions are my own.


Cheers...

[bluehz]

>> Well, good for you, now we know your abilities, necessities and benefits.

Please don't make assumptions about my "..abilities, necessities, and benefits." until you know me...which you don't!!!!

I live for the ability to install something just to see how it works, what it does, why it does what it does, etc. I acquire much knowledge and joy from said activities. Most times I am capable of quickly discerning WHAT, WHY, and HOW when experimenting. None of those presented themselves when expereimenting with XWindows - everything I could see that could be done I was already doing without going through an eviron (XWindows) sitting on an environ (OS X GUI) sitting on an environ (BSD). Why in the hell would I want to do something in 3 steps when I can do it in 2. I thank you for your input and fail to see why my questions, curiosity, and feedback have degraded into the current state of this thread which is neither advancing mine (or anyone elses) edification on the subject original threaded.

As far as I am concerned - this thread is dead.

THE KITCHEN IS CLOSED!

[sao]

bluehz,

I don't dare to make assumptions, 'you' told us about you :


<<I have Lame compiled and installed for OS X, I have all the high-end graphic apps I can possibly need ( I am a graphic/multimedia designer by trade) for OS X, I have all the OS X compatible word processors and web browsers I could possibly need. Pretty much anything I want I can find in OpenSource and compile and install myself. I am just not understanding the benefits of XWindows over things I can normally do within the OS X environ anyway. Only thing that has been mentioned that sounds vaguely useful is logging into remote machine (not Mac) and commanding them. I have all the remote stuff I need for logging into other Macs (Timbuktu, SSH, VNC).

Sorry - not trying to play the devils advocate here - I am just failing to see the benefits over what I already have.>>


And that's why I asked : << "your previous posts..it's that all?">>

Obviously not, because then you told us:


<<I live for the ability to install something just to see how it works, what it does, why it does what it does, etc. I acquire much knowledge and joy from said activities. Most times I am capable of quickly discerning WHAT, WHY, and HOW when experimenting. None of those presented themselves when expereimenting with XWindows - everything I could see that could be done I was already doing without going through an eviron (XWindows) sitting on an environ (OS X GUI) sitting on an environ (BSD). Why in the hell would I want to do something in 3 steps when I can do it in 2. I thank you for your input and fail to see why my questions, curiosity, and feedback have degraded into the current state of this thread which is neither advancing mine (or anyone elses) edification on the subject original threaded.

As far as I am concerned - this thread is dead.

THE KITCHEN IS CLOSED!>>


Thanks, bluehz for all the info.

And the kitchen is always open at my home, anytime...


Cheers...


PS: I don't have the power to kill a thread, it's not my job. (I actually started to enjoy this one)