Why buy a PB 12" instead of an iBook?

petey · 12-10-2003, 09:14 PM

given the introduction of the iBook G4, and the fact that the iBook will take a GB of RAM, why on earth would anyone buy a PB 12"?

the iBook is $500 cheaper, and the inevitable AppleCare purchase is $100 cheaper. and for that addtional $600 you get...

am i missing something?

yellow · 12-10-2003, 09:39 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by petey the iBook is $500 cheaper, and the inevitable AppleCare purchase is $100 cheaper. and for that addtional $600 you get...

You're probably right if you're shooting for a low-end, base unit PowerBook. But the PowerBook gives you more opportunity for tailoring the machine for your own particular needs.

According to Apple the iBook only takes 640MB of RAM max. The 12" PB, 1.25GB of RAM. The PB gives you the opportunity for a SuperDrive versus the iBook's Combo Drive. The PB gives you up to an 80GB hard drive, where the iBook is a 60GB hard drive. The iBook has 1/2 the L2 Cache of the PowerBook. The PowerBook offer dual displays and mirroring versus the iBook's mirroring only. The 12" PB has a smaller footprint. The PowerBook is a whopping 1/3 of a pound lighter.. OK, now I'm clutching at straws.

Personally I'd probably go with the cheaper laptop. I assume that the addition of the G4 to the iBook means that a G5 PowerBook laptop is on the horizon.

petey · 12-10-2003, 09:47 PM

According to Apple the iBook only takes 640MB of RAM max. The 12" PB, 1.25GB of RAM.

- you can buy 1GB RAM cards for the iBook. Apple forgot to disable this in the firmware.

The PowerBook offer dual displays and mirroring versus the iBook's mirroring only.

- ah. that's a valid reason in my mind. i believe you can mod the iBook firmware to enable monitor spanning, but that's a bit icky to be messing with.

mervTormel · 12-10-2003, 09:51 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by yellow ...I assume that the addition of the G4 to the iBook means that a G5 PowerBook laptop is on the horizon.

liquid cooled

anthlover · 12-10-2003, 10:03 PM

You are Comparing the Alumi 12 1Ghz and the 800mhz Ibook there is a probalby a good 15 to 30 percent difference between them owing to the Larger level cache and extra 200mhz. You can look on barefeats.com, Macworld, MacAddict.

That said Performance and prices change frequently. It will not be long before 1.5ghz 1.8 ghz Gx Powerbooks become available putting to shame any extra expense made now. This is true all computer purchases. Always Buy Low to middle more frequently instead of top of the line and you can afford to replace it more often and get better speed that way.

One warning ALL Ibook and 12 Inch Alumini book using 512 meg upgrade (with out 1 gig modules are limited to **640 megs** (Ibook) of ram
and ** 768 ram** (Powerbook).

Those 1 gig modules are Probhibitaly expensive and that might take one up to a 15 inch book. With the Ibook the going rate from Trans Internatioal $450 vs. 2 512modules for around $200. In the Powerbook line the faster module is $500.

Good Luck.

petey · 12-10-2003, 10:18 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by anthlover You are Comparing the Alumi 12 1Ghz and the 800mhz Ibook there is a probalby a good 30 to 40 percent difference between them owing to the Larger level cache and extra 200mhz. You can look on barefeats.com, Macworld, MacAddict.

judging from barefeats, 30% - 40% ain't right. the 867 PB tests 0% - 10% faster than the 800 iBook, which is about in line with the mhz.

anthlover · 12-10-2003, 10:37 PM

One test was around 30 percent.

Some tests were not completed.

You basically have 20 percent clock speed and Larger level to cache with all things being equal is worth 5 to 20 percent by itself.

I love barefeats and other mags.... But Testing is complicated Some Diffs only show up with Ram Maxed out to to take advantage of the larger level 2 cache. Others are effected by which HD is in the system etc. There are also a million Different ways to test not even counting Synthetic vs. Actual tests. e.g. Video Games, Screen Redraw in various apps, Photoshop etc.

Anyway, As I said if your going with the 12 inch Screen. You are probably better off saving the bucks. Go to a store Compare the Displays, Try out the keyboards for typing. etc.

You should Also eyeball the Details, if they matter to you e.g. Spanning a larger Screen instead of mirroring. If you were to buy an External 21 Inch Display and wanted to Drive it @ 1600x1200, that is a powerbook only Function. Ibook is limited to Ibook Res e.g. 1024x768.

If you want DVI out it is a Powerbook only function etc.

mclbruce · 12-10-2003, 11:09 PM

Last week I set up a 12" Powerbook with an Apple 20" display. The client moved up from a 12" G3 iBook. They had been specifically asking for an Apple flat panel display for years.

I had to set up at my place first, to "make sure that everything worked" before making a long trip to their home. There was an iCurve stand so the iBook became a(n almost unnecessary) "tools monitor" for the 20 inch Cinema display. Oh, and some JBL Creature speakers for watching DVD's. It was an awesome setup for home, and very compact for travel.

Couldn't have done it with a 12" iBook, at least not without a fabulously expensive and bulky adaptor for the monitor. We only needed a moderately expensive and bulky adaptor!

It was "mine" for several hours while the client was out running errands. But they came back and we packed it all away. The next morning I was just a little bit upset that I didn't have "my" cinema display anymore!

AHunter3 · 12-10-2003, 11:18 PM

I'm pretty sure there are no CardBus card slots on the iBook either.

A 12" PB with a display CardBus card will let you run two external monitors as an expanded desktop for a total of three. Or a Magma breakout box that lets you use PCI cards when you're not on the road.

There's no way I could limit myself to a single 12" screen day in and day out.

anthlover · 12-11-2003, 12:01 AM

If you are not wedded to the 12 Inch $1099 price point the $1299 933mhz G4
14 Inch Screen model is a compelling Option, plus an Extra 10 gigs of HD space.

The Max Res is the same 1024x768 but you can see more detail on a 14 inch Screen then 12 Inch.

This is particualry true when you are zooming in Apps e.g. When you are displaying something @ 50 to 100 percent it will be a lot more viewable on a 14 inch screen. Even On My 15 Inch Flat Imac 700mhz I keep most Apps @ 100 to 140 percent.

You will essentially get more screen real estate because you will be able to keep aps zoomed less. e.g. On A 12 Inch Sreen I would keep most Apps at 150 percent to be Happy. That is a lot less screen real estate then 100 to 140 percent etc

Good Luck.

P.S. Check out both systems Scaling Options e.g. 800x600. Some Scalers work better then others. Most Apps and the OS offer Zooming so things do not look to small. There are Exceptions, so it is nice to see how the scaler works on all three systems.

P.P.S If you want the most Bang for the Buck and Portabilty is not a concern it is hard to Argue with an Emac 17 Inch CRT 1 ghz for $800 or $1100 with Super Drive.

Also Even a 1.25 ghz Single Processor G4 Tower is around $1200.

P.P.P.S (Is THAT even allowed

A lot of people are expecting refershes Between now and the Mac Show occuring in January.... While you could wait forever as change is constant. You Should wait through January. Or Keep an eye on the rumor sites. Most expect changes in the Desktops but Apple is pretty good at keeping things under wraps.

That is unless your Desperate for a refresh now.

petey · 12-11-2003, 12:27 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by AHunter3 I'm pretty sure there are no CardBus card slots on the iBook...

and there aren't any on the 12" PB either.

---

so to summarize, it seems like the extra $500/$600 between the base models gets you:

- 25% faster clock speed

- DVI output

- monitor spanning (without unsupported firmware mods)

obviously pretty bad value unless you need the monitor connection features. and, of course, if you want a superdrive, you can only get that with the PB.

anthlover · 12-11-2003, 12:56 AM

DVD FW is an Option on all systems and will be 4X instead of (1 or 2x) aka its External FW. No I Apps with out hacks but it will come with replacements software. OK OK, so they just came out with an 8X External too

I would Add to the Summmary.

1) Go to the Store and look for your self, touch, test drive.
2) I would Go with the 14 Inch Ibook, best Value in Portable

3) Consider all the alternatives (If portabilty is not important)

A) Flat Panel Imac
B) Emac
C) Power Mac G4 Tower
D) Wait till the end of January

P.S. All of the Above assumes you are not Rich/Frugal. If I could just get any Powerbook and I had to carry it around I would Opt for 12 Alum or 15. Probably the latter.

anthlover · 12-11-2003, 01:03 AM

Or is my memory faulty

... last we left in anohter thread you were going TI Book 15.....

petey · 12-11-2003, 05:40 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by anthlover Just out of curiosity Petey are you in the Market for a Ibook/Powerbook still...

i'm in the market for a TiBook DVI 667/800 or 867/1Ghz with AppleCare and perhaps a Superdrive.

yellow · 12-11-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by mervTormel liquid cooled

Burbon cooled! As it should be!

anthlover · 12-11-2003, 06:07 PM

But Happy

dreamscape · 12-11-2003, 07:58 PM

A few reasons in favor of the powerbook:
- the 12" PB is more compact
- the keyboard and trackpad/button on the iBook is really flimsy (goto a store and try them out)
- the PB looks better (IMO)
- PB's L2 cache is twice the size of the iBooks
- the PB keyboard and trackpad is not flimsy
- can you say "Superdrive"?
- Did I mention the PB looks better?

dhayton · 12-11-2003, 09:31 PM

12" PB:

bragging rights?

darin

cameranerd74 · 12-12-2003, 10:15 AM

Just adding my opinion here... don't worry about what the difference is between them. Worry about how much you want to spend.

In my experience, I've heard a lot of people say "but for a couple hundred more I get... and for a couple hundred more than that I get..." and so on. All of the sudden you're spending $600 more than you wanted for a machine that will still be out of date in a few years.

If the iBook fits your budget... buy that. If you can comfortably afford the PowerBook... why look at an iBook. No matter which decision you make, expect a better and cheaper model to be available within a couple months. Either way, you're getting a great computer.

ozzilee · 12-12-2003, 11:25 AM

I just wanted to bring up the fact the the Powerbooks are, from what I can tell, more durable and better put together than the iBooks. One experience I had involved the headphone jack on my iBook. Unless they have changed the design on the G4's, which they may well have done, the jack is made out of a tiny ring of plastic that is very much breakable. In a conversation with an Apple specialist I was told that yes, they do break, often, and no, they can't be fixed under warantee. Basically if I wanted to use headphones a lot I should either get a USB adapter or a Powerbook.

Granted, this is a fairly small detail, but I think it is sort of representative of PB vs iBook. The Powerbook is a professional computer, while the iBook is made for the home.

12-10-2003, 09:14 PM	#1
petey All Star Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: peteyville Posts: 794	Why buy a PB 12" instead of an iBook? given the introduction of the iBook G4, and the fact that the iBook will take a GB of RAM, why on earth would anyone buy a PB 12"? the iBook is $500 cheaper, and the inevitable AppleCare purchase is $100 cheaper. and for that addtional $600 you get... am i missing something?

12-10-2003, 09:47 PM	#3
petey All Star Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: peteyville Posts: 794	Re: Re: Why buy a PB 12" instead of an iBook? According to Apple the iBook only takes 640MB of RAM max. The 12" PB, 1.25GB of RAM. - you can buy 1GB RAM cards for the iBook. Apple forgot to disable this in the firmware. The PowerBook offer dual displays and mirroring versus the iBook's mirroring only. - ah. that's a valid reason in my mind. i believe you can mod the iBook firmware to enable monitor spanning, but that's a bit icky to be messing with.

12-10-2003, 10:03 PM	#5
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	You Guys are leaving out the largest reasons speed You are Comparing the Alumi 12 1Ghz and the 800mhz Ibook there is a probalby a good 15 to 30 percent difference between them owing to the Larger level cache and extra 200mhz. You can look on barefeats.com, Macworld, MacAddict. That said Performance and prices change frequently. It will not be long before 1.5ghz 1.8 ghz Gx Powerbooks become available putting to shame any extra expense made now. This is true all computer purchases. Always Buy Low to middle more frequently instead of top of the line and you can afford to replace it more often and get better speed that way. One warning ALL Ibook and 12 Inch Alumini book using 512 meg upgrade (with out 1 gig modules are limited to 640 megs (Ibook) of ram and 768 ram (Powerbook). Those 1 gig modules are Probhibitaly expensive and that might take one up to a 15 inch book. With the Ibook the going rate from Trans Internatioal $450 vs. 2 512modules for around $200. In the Powerbook line the faster module is $500. Good Luck. Last edited by anthlover; 12-10-2003 at 11:50 PM.

12-10-2003, 10:37 PM	#7
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Most of the bare feats test were 10 to 15 percent One test was around 30 percent. Some tests were not completed. You basically have 20 percent clock speed and Larger level to cache with all things being equal is worth 5 to 20 percent by itself. I love barefeats and other mags.... But Testing is complicated Some Diffs only show up with Ram Maxed out to to take advantage of the larger level 2 cache. Others are effected by which HD is in the system etc. There are also a million Different ways to test not even counting Synthetic vs. Actual tests. e.g. Video Games, Screen Redraw in various apps, Photoshop etc. Anyway, As I said if your going with the 12 inch Screen. You are probably better off saving the bucks. Go to a store Compare the Displays, Try out the keyboards for typing. etc. You should Also eyeball the Details, if they matter to you e.g. Spanning a larger Screen instead of mirroring. If you were to buy an External 21 Inch Display and wanted to Drive it @ 1600x1200, that is a powerbook only Function. Ibook is limited to Ibook Res e.g. 1024x768. If you want DVI out it is a Powerbook only function etc. Last edited by anthlover; 12-10-2003 at 10:41 PM.

12-11-2003, 12:01 AM	#10
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Extra bucks and Extra Speed thought and Extra Space with out External Dispaly If you are not wedded to the 12 Inch $1099 price point the $1299 933mhz G4 14 Inch Screen model is a compelling Option, plus an Extra 10 gigs of HD space. The Max Res is the same 1024x768 but you can see more detail on a 14 inch Screen then 12 Inch. This is particualry true when you are zooming in Apps e.g. When you are displaying something @ 50 to 100 percent it will be a lot more viewable on a 14 inch screen. Even On My 15 Inch Flat Imac 700mhz I keep most Apps @ 100 to 140 percent. You will essentially get more screen real estate because you will be able to keep aps zoomed less. e.g. On A 12 Inch Sreen I would keep most Apps at 150 percent to be Happy. That is a lot less screen real estate then 100 to 140 percent etc Good Luck. P.S. Check out both systems Scaling Options e.g. 800x600. Some Scalers work better then others. Most Apps and the OS offer Zooming so things do not look to small. There are Exceptions, so it is nice to see how the scaler works on all three systems. P.P.S If you want the most Bang for the Buck and Portabilty is not a concern it is hard to Argue with an Emac 17 Inch CRT 1 ghz for $800 or $1100 with Super Drive. Also Even a 1.25 ghz Single Processor G4 Tower is around $1200. P.P.P.S (Is THAT even allowed A lot of people are expecting refershes Between now and the Mac Show occuring in January.... While you could wait forever as change is constant. You Should wait through January. Or Keep an eye on the rumor sites. Most expect changes in the Desktops but Apple is pretty good at keeping things under wraps. That is unless your Desperate for a refresh now. Last edited by anthlover; 12-11-2003 at 12:17 AM.

12-10-2003, 11:09 PM	#8
mclbruce Hall of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,878	Last week I set up a 12" Powerbook with an Apple 20" display. The client moved up from a 12" G3 iBook. They had been specifically asking for an Apple flat panel display for years. I had to set up at my place first, to "make sure that everything worked" before making a long trip to their home. There was an iCurve stand so the iBook became a(n almost unnecessary) "tools monitor" for the 20 inch Cinema display. Oh, and some JBL Creature speakers for watching DVD's. It was an awesome setup for home, and very compact for travel. Couldn't have done it with a 12" iBook, at least not without a fabulously expensive and bulky adaptor for the monitor. We only needed a moderately expensive and bulky adaptor! It was "mine" for several hours while the client was out running errands. But they came back and we packed it all away. The next morning I was just a little bit upset that I didn't have "my" cinema display anymore!

12-10-2003, 11:18 PM	#9
AHunter3 Hall of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 3,032	I'm pretty sure there are no CardBus card slots on the iBook either. A 12" PB with a display CardBus card will let you run two external monitors as an expanded desktop for a total of three. Or a Magma breakout box that lets you use PCI cards when you're not on the road. There's no way I could limit myself to a single 12" screen day in and day out.

12-11-2003, 12:56 AM	#12
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Nice Summary Petey... DVD FW is an Option on all systems and will be 4X instead of (1 or 2x) aka its External FW. No I Apps with out hacks but it will come with replacements software. OK OK, so they just came out with an 8X External too I would Add to the Summmary. 1) Go to the Store and look for your self, touch, test drive. 2) I would Go with the 14 Inch Ibook, best Value in Portable 3) Consider all the alternatives (If portabilty is not important) A) Flat Panel Imac B) Emac C) Power Mac G4 Tower D) Wait till the end of January P.S. All of the Above assumes you are not Rich/Frugal. If I could just get any Powerbook and I had to carry it around I would Opt for 12 Alum or 15. Probably the latter. Last edited by anthlover; 12-11-2003 at 12:59 AM.

12-11-2003, 01:03 AM	#13
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Just out of curiosity Petey are you in the Market for a Ibook/Powerbook still Or is my memory faulty ... last we left in anohter thread you were going TI Book 15.....

12-11-2003, 06:07 PM	#16
anthlover Hall of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,620	Wouldnt it Get Sitcky:) But Happy

12-11-2003, 07:58 PM	#17
dreamscape Triple-A Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 64	A few reasons in favor of the powerbook: - the 12" PB is more compact - the keyboard and trackpad/button on the iBook is really flimsy (goto a store and try them out) - the PB looks better (IMO) - PB's L2 cache is twice the size of the iBooks - the PB keyboard and trackpad is not flimsy - can you say "Superdrive"? - Did I mention the PB looks better?

12-11-2003, 09:31 PM	#18
dhayton Major Leaguer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Haverford, PA Posts: 343	12" PB: bragging rights? darin

12-12-2003, 10:15 AM	#19
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	Just adding my opinion here... don't worry about what the difference is between them. Worry about how much you want to spend. In my experience, I've heard a lot of people say "but for a couple hundred more I get... and for a couple hundred more than that I get..." and so on. All of the sudden you're spending $600 more than you wanted for a machine that will still be out of date in a few years. If the iBook fits your budget... buy that. If you can comfortably afford the PowerBook... why look at an iBook. No matter which decision you make, expect a better and cheaper model to be available within a couple months. Either way, you're getting a great computer. __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you?

12-12-2003, 11:25 AM	#20
ozzilee Triple-A Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 82	I just wanted to bring up the fact the the Powerbooks are, from what I can tell, more durable and better put together than the iBooks. One experience I had involved the headphone jack on my iBook. Unless they have changed the design on the G4's, which they may well have done, the jack is made out of a tiny ring of plastic that is very much breakable. In a conversation with an Apple specialist I was told that yes, they do break, often, and no, they can't be fixed under warantee. Basically if I wanted to use headphones a lot I should either get a USB adapter or a Powerbook. Granted, this is a fairly small detail, but I think it is sort of representative of PB vs iBook. The Powerbook is a professional computer, while the iBook is made for the home.