NO BOOT... completely baffled!

cameranerd74 · 11-26-2003, 02:33 PM

I have a B&W rev. A G3, I'm trying to use as a server. The stock HD was replaced with a 20gig ATA133 running 9.2.2. I added a Sonnet Tempo ATA card and a 120gig ATA100. Then I proceeded to install OSX Server 10.1 on the 120 gig drive. The install went flawless. The machine booted into OSX Server. I started doing a little configuring, then I decided I'd better run my updates before going any farther. I looked here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42741
I donwloaded all the updates and ran the first one (security update), restarted. Perfect. I ran the second one (10.1.5 combo). No boot. Just a broken System Folder icon. I thought maybe something went wrong so I erased the disk, and reinstalled OSX server. Perfect. Ran the first update. Perfect. Ran the second. No boot. I took the drive out of the machine and slapped it in another machine (a Quicksilver). It booted. While booted on that machine I ran the rest of the updates, and it went flawlessly. I put the drive back in the G3. I booted into OS9. The drive mounts. Opened startup disk, picked the OSX disk. Restart. Broken System folder. I checked the firmware on the ATA card, I tried using v4.0 and v4.5. Same result. I tried moving the drive onto the other ATA bus. No boot. I can't even boot into Single User mode. It just won't recognize the drive at all, but it mounts in OS9 and allows me to select it in Sartup Disk. I'm baffled.

tlarkin · 11-26-2003, 04:10 PM

It sounds like perhaps somewhere in the bootstrap the OS is getting corrupted. A few things you can try to get a general idea of whats going on.

1) Make sure your G3's firmware is up to date. Click on this link to check.

2) Try resetting the firmware. This will reset the boot rom. Hold down cmd+opt+O+F on your keyboard at start up. Then use the following code once in open firmware:

Code:

reset-nvram (hit enter)
reset-all (hit enter once more and it should reboot)

3) Look for updated drivers for your ATA card. Perhaps the native drivers have some kind of conflict with a certain update.

Let us know what you find.

hayne · 11-26-2003, 06:19 PM

Have you followed the steps listed on this Apple page?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464

cameranerd74 · 11-26-2003, 07:48 PM

Okay I reset-nvram and reset-all while in Open Firmware. No go. The G3 is running Firmware 1.1 (I checked before installing OSX server), which is the recommended ROM. I tried firmware v4.0 and 4.5 on the ATA card. Sonnet says I should be running v4.0 (which I was originally) but I tried v4.5 and then went back to v4.0. All with no boot. OS 9 works fine. The OSX drive mounts fine while booted in OS9 or from a CD, including Mac OSX install CD's. None of the symptoms of the above page match. I'm confused. HELP!

Also, it boots from 9.0, 9.2, 10.1, and 10.2 CD's with no trouble.

cameranerd74 · 11-28-2003, 09:32 AM

To add to the confusion, I installed an OS 9 System on the same drive as the OSX server system. I can boot off the OS 9 System Folder, but still no go from the OSX folder. It's definitely a problem between OSX Server 10.1.4 and this G3. All firmware is up to date. Any ideas?

tlarkin · 11-28-2003, 01:55 PM

I'm confused here. Will the rig boot OS X if its connected to the onboard IDE controller and not the ATA card?

sao · 11-28-2003, 03:18 PM

cameranerd74,

Maybe try at startup by pressing Alt+Command+O+F to boot to Open Firmware. When you get the prompt, run:

set-defaults

and after run:

boot hd:,SystemLibraryCoreServicesBootX

If it doesn't work the first time, try again a couple of times.

cameranerd74 · 11-28-2003, 06:22 PM

When I type that in Open Firmware I get:
can't OPEN hd:,SystemLibraryCoreServicesBootX

Is that because the OSX System is a different drive from the OS9 system?

Well, anyway... I switched the buses, so the 120gig is on the original bus and the 20 is on the ATA card and I booted with the X key held down. It works. I can boot off both drives and it seems to be working fine. I'm confused by this though. I guess it's a conflict between OSX Server 10.1.4, Sonnet's Tempo and G3 firmware? At least it's working, but I'd like to set it up the other way if that's at all possible. Ideas?

cameranerd74 · 12-02-2003, 10:49 AM

Now the machine seems to be running OSX Server 10.1.4 fine, but there is still problems. When I open the Startup Disk SysPref and choose the OS9 System on the 20gig drive... I get a flashing ?. WTF? I booted from a DiskWarrior CD, (to see if I could select a startup disk that way) and neither drive mounts. WTF? The only way I could get it to reboot was to start with the X key held down. I'd be willing to try partitioning, but I don't think it would make any difference. Ideas???????

*My goal is to run OSX Server off the 120gig and use the 20gig to run OS9 disk utils for recovery (just in case). So I need to be able to boot off both drives.

mclbruce · 12-02-2003, 09:02 PM

Some of the Sonnet ATA cards have jumpers on them which do various things. I'd check your jumper settings on the card if you have them.

cameranerd74 · 12-03-2003, 10:28 AM

I contacted Sonnet. They said everything I was doing was correct, and that I was running the proper firmware. In fact the tech apologized for not having an answer, he said there was no explanation.

Do you think partitioning (less than 8 gigs for OSX) would make any difference?

cudaboy_71 · 12-03-2003, 02:59 PM

not a solution here. not anything really related. but, just maybe some insight into the b/w's schizophrenia.

i have a rev 2 b/w G3 400. ever since reading xlr8yourmac's article on adding a 2nd IDE drive i've had this notion in my head to dual boot the machine X and os9.

here's my setup: PRI-MAS 8GB (Part 1 6gb/Part 2 2gb), PRI-SLA 6GB (Part 1 3gb/Part 2 3gb)

os9.2.2 is installed (and some version of the classic operating system has been on this drive since i bought it new). the 2gb PRI-MAS partition is a photoshop scratch drive.

os9 sees both of the PRI-SLA drive partitions just fine.

after installing 10.3 to the first partiton of the PRI-SLA i am only able to see the PRI-SLA partitions. its not that the volumes are failing to mount...the os just will not recognize the drive.

as a result of this, the only way to boot back to os9 is to boot the computer with an os9 CD and use startup disk to rebless the os9 partiton (startup disk in osx will not work obviously)

this is beyond my comprehension.

not trying to hijack this thread. just pointing out that the b/w's motherboard/ATA chipset may have some issues with osx.

cameranerd74 · 12-03-2003, 03:49 PM

I think you're on the right track. I checked out that same article before doing the upgrade and they recommend adding an ATA card to slove problems and prevent corruption. This was the reason I purchased the Sonnet Tempo. That's interesting how 2 compatible OS's won't recoginize the same partitions on the same system. I'm thinking the best option may be to remove the ATA card and 2nd drive all together. Just install the 120gig, patitioned for OSX Server, with 9.2.2 on the second partition. Maybe I'd have better luck that way. Sigh, I'm so confused...

11-26-2003, 02:33 PM	#1
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	NO BOOT... completely baffled! I have a B&W rev. A G3, I'm trying to use as a server. The stock HD was replaced with a 20gig ATA133 running 9.2.2. I added a Sonnet Tempo ATA card and a 120gig ATA100. Then I proceeded to install OSX Server 10.1 on the 120 gig drive. The install went flawless. The machine booted into OSX Server. I started doing a little configuring, then I decided I'd better run my updates before going any farther. I looked here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42741 I donwloaded all the updates and ran the first one (security update), restarted. Perfect. I ran the second one (10.1.5 combo). No boot. Just a broken System Folder icon. I thought maybe something went wrong so I erased the disk, and reinstalled OSX server. Perfect. Ran the first update. Perfect. Ran the second. No boot. I took the drive out of the machine and slapped it in another machine (a Quicksilver). It booted. While booted on that machine I ran the rest of the updates, and it went flawlessly. I put the drive back in the G3. I booted into OS9. The drive mounts. Opened startup disk, picked the OSX disk. Restart. Broken System folder. I checked the firmware on the ATA card, I tried using v4.0 and v4.5. Same result. I tried moving the drive onto the other ATA bus. No boot. I can't even boot into Single User mode. It just won't recognize the drive at all, but it mounts in OS9 and allows me to select it in Sartup Disk. I'm baffled. __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you?

11-26-2003, 04:10 PM	#2
tlarkin League Commissioner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 11,352	It sounds like perhaps somewhere in the bootstrap the OS is getting corrupted. A few things you can try to get a general idea of whats going on. 1) Make sure your G3's firmware is up to date. Click on this link to check. 2) Try resetting the firmware. This will reset the boot rom. Hold down cmd+opt+O+F on your keyboard at start up. Then use the following code once in open firmware: Code: reset-nvram (hit enter) reset-all (hit enter once more and it should reboot) 3) Look for updated drivers for your ATA card. Perhaps the native drivers have some kind of conflict with a certain update. Let us know what you find. __________________ sudo make me a sammich

11-26-2003, 06:19 PM	#3
hayne Site Admin Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 32,473	Apple article on startup problems Have you followed the steps listed on this Apple page? http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464

11-26-2003, 07:48 PM	#4
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	Okay I reset-nvram and reset-all while in Open Firmware. No go. The G3 is running Firmware 1.1 (I checked before installing OSX server), which is the recommended ROM. I tried firmware v4.0 and 4.5 on the ATA card. Sonnet says I should be running v4.0 (which I was originally) but I tried v4.5 and then went back to v4.0. All with no boot. OS 9 works fine. The OSX drive mounts fine while booted in OS9 or from a CD, including Mac OSX install CD's. None of the symptoms of the above page match. I'm confused. HELP! Also, it boots from 9.0, 9.2, 10.1, and 10.2 CD's with no trouble. __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you? Last edited by cameranerd74; 11-26-2003 at 08:42 PM.

11-28-2003, 09:32 AM	#5
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	To add to the confusion, I installed an OS 9 System on the same drive as the OSX server system. I can boot off the OS 9 System Folder, but still no go from the OSX folder. It's definitely a problem between OSX Server 10.1.4 and this G3. All firmware is up to date. Any ideas? __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you?

11-28-2003, 01:55 PM	#6
tlarkin League Commissioner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 11,352	I'm confused here. Will the rig boot OS X if its connected to the onboard IDE controller and not the ATA card? __________________ sudo make me a sammich

11-28-2003, 03:18 PM	#7
sao Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,237	cameranerd74, Maybe try at startup by pressing Alt+Command+O+F to boot to Open Firmware. When you get the prompt, run: set-defaults and after run: boot hd:,SystemLibraryCoreServicesBootX If it doesn't work the first time, try again a couple of times.

11-28-2003, 06:22 PM	#8
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	When I type that in Open Firmware I get: can't OPEN hd:,SystemLibraryCoreServicesBootX Is that because the OSX System is a different drive from the OS9 system? Well, anyway... I switched the buses, so the 120gig is on the original bus and the 20 is on the ATA card and I booted with the X key held down. It works. I can boot off both drives and it seems to be working fine. I'm confused by this though. I guess it's a conflict between OSX Server 10.1.4, Sonnet's Tempo and G3 firmware? At least it's working, but I'd like to set it up the other way if that's at all possible. Ideas? __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you? Last edited by cameranerd74; 11-29-2003 at 11:38 AM.

12-02-2003, 10:49 AM	#9
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	The Craziness Continues... Now the machine seems to be running OSX Server 10.1.4 fine, but there is still problems. When I open the Startup Disk SysPref and choose the OS9 System on the 20gig drive... I get a flashing ?. WTF? I booted from a DiskWarrior CD, (to see if I could select a startup disk that way) and neither drive mounts. WTF? The only way I could get it to reboot was to start with the X key held down. I'd be willing to try partitioning, but I don't think it would make any difference. Ideas??????? My goal is to run OSX Server off the 120gig and use the 20gig to run OS9 disk utils for recovery (just in case). So I need to be able to boot off both drives. __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you? Last edited by cameranerd74; 12-02-2003 at 05:09 PM.*

12-02-2003, 09:02 PM	#10
mclbruce Hall of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,878	Some of the Sonnet ATA cards have jumpers on them which do various things. I'd check your jumper settings on the card if you have them.

12-03-2003, 10:28 AM	#11
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	I contacted Sonnet. They said everything I was doing was correct, and that I was running the proper firmware. In fact the tech apologized for not having an answer, he said there was no explanation. Do you think partitioning (less than 8 gigs for OSX) would make any difference? __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you?

12-03-2003, 02:59 PM	#12
cudaboy_71 All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 874	general b/w wonkiness not a solution here. not anything really related. but, just maybe some insight into the b/w's schizophrenia. i have a rev 2 b/w G3 400. ever since reading xlr8yourmac's article on adding a 2nd IDE drive i've had this notion in my head to dual boot the machine X and os9. here's my setup: PRI-MAS 8GB (Part 1 6gb/Part 2 2gb), PRI-SLA 6GB (Part 1 3gb/Part 2 3gb) os9.2.2 is installed (and some version of the classic operating system has been on this drive since i bought it new). the 2gb PRI-MAS partition is a photoshop scratch drive. os9 sees both of the PRI-SLA drive partitions just fine. after installing 10.3 to the first partiton of the PRI-SLA i am only able to see the PRI-SLA partitions. its not that the volumes are failing to mount...the os just will not recognize the drive. as a result of this, the only way to boot back to os9 is to boot the computer with an os9 CD and use startup disk to rebless the os9 partiton (startup disk in osx will not work obviously) this is beyond my comprehension. not trying to hijack this thread. just pointing out that the b/w's motherboard/ATA chipset may have some issues with osx.

12-03-2003, 03:49 PM	#13
cameranerd74 All Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 794	I think you're on the right track. I checked out that same article before doing the upgrade and they recommend adding an ATA card to slove problems and prevent corruption. This was the reason I purchased the Sonnet Tempo. That's interesting how 2 compatible OS's won't recoginize the same partitions on the same system. I'm thinking the best option may be to remove the ATA card and 2nd drive all together. Just install the 120gig, patitioned for OSX Server, with 9.2.2 on the second partition. Maybe I'd have better luck that way. Sigh, I'm so confused... __________________ I'm Microsoft Certified and I use a Mac... what does that tell you?