PPC 970 info and speculation

Craig R. Arko · 05-14-2003, 09:08 AM

A couple of articles to start out with:

PDF reprint of a Microprocessor Report article from late last year.

Ars Technica's Hannibal Stokes with Part II of his comprehensive (given what IBM will let out) analysis of the 970, and why he (like many of us) are sure it was designed with Apple in mind.

Finally the (in)famous benchmarks rumored at MacBidouille.

mervTormel · 05-14-2003, 10:29 AM

boy, that macbidouille article makes no sense at all. it's like jibberish in some foreign language, to me ;]

so, Craig, i understand you've been following this closely? care to speculate about any of it with some sweeping generalizations of the kind we like to hear?

bassi · 05-14-2003, 11:05 AM

The Stokes' comment about the application of the Altivec core seems to be the giveaway about Apple applicability.
I just can't figure out what the speed of the frontside bus would be and if it fixes Apple to nVidia and their nForce motherboard (rapid IO etc.)

Craig R. Arko · 05-14-2003, 11:06 AM

Well, it'll be the thing that finally gets me off my butt to replace the G3's.

But seriously folks, I believe this is the calibre of system that Mac OS X was originally spec'd for back in 1998, as it was becoming apparent that Rhapsody wasn't going to make it, and I think it comparable to the move from the 68040 to the PPC601. I'd also expect Panther to be optimized for this system.

The real question of course boils down to price. A base (1.4 gHz?) single proc system had best not exceed the $1499 for the current low end tower, and a high end (dual 1.8 gHz?) the current $2699 'Fastest' model.

At those prices it could become 'The Year of the Tower' pretty quickly.

Craig R. Arko · 05-14-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by bassi The Stokes' comment about the application of the Altivec core seems to be the giveaway about Apple applicability. I just can't figure out what the speed of the frontside bus would be and if it fixes Apple to nVidia and their nForce motherboard (rapid IO etc.)

The bus speed appears to be 1/4 of the processor clock, double-pumped to 1/2 speed. So a 1.8 gHz proc would run an effective 900 mHz FSB. Just like HyperTransport (of which the nVidia board is an example). Apple is also a founding member of the HyperTransport Consortium.

bassi · 05-14-2003, 11:24 AM

With the new nForce chipset I can't imagine a price lower than $3000 if they're dual processor. From the article and unsubstantiated rumours I get the impression that the processors will start at or around 1.8 Ghz and top out at 2.2 Ghz. I hope you're right about a base single processor model.

I think your assessment of OSX usability is spot on. I just wonder if Panther will be compatible with older G3 systems or will there an arbitrary cut off.

AKcrab · 05-14-2003, 05:02 PM

Very detailed 'rumoring' going on over at arstechnica today.
Honestly, most of it is way above my head, but some here may get a lot out of it.

Craig R. Arko · 05-14-2003, 05:19 PM

Yup, that's the Hannibal Stokes article we're talking about.

Reading the forums over there makes it look like some of the Wintel people are feeling a little threatened. Who'da thunk it?

AKcrab · 05-14-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by Craig R. Arko Yup, that's the Hannibal Stokes article we're talking about.

Now how did I miss that link in the very first post...

/slaps forehead

Phil St. Romain · 05-14-2003, 09:51 PM

Ah, our very own 970 rumors/discussion thread!

Glad to see this happening. Since I just bought a 1 Ghz FP iMac, I'll probably feel like a chum for not waiting for 970 and Panther, but what the heck! It might take them a year after release to iron the wrinkles out.

Craig R. Arko · 05-15-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:


	Originally posted by Phil St. Romain It might take them a year after release to iron the wrinkles out.

Well, the 7100/66 AV I bought the day they shipped was running fine until late last year, so they can get it right the first time every so often.

Craig R. Arko · 05-31-2003, 10:32 AM

Well, after thinking this through a little more and digesting the more recent {whatever you want to call it} from the rumor mills, I now think:

The 970 will make an appearence in Apple computers

, and the early debut is likely to happen in a new XServe design, and maybe in a new workstation class machine above (and pricier than) the current PowerMac line, aimed directly at the professional media creation markets;

The other systems probably won't transition processors until early next year (January perhaps). Some will go 970 and others will go to a souped-up 750.

There will be distributed computing technologies in Panther that will let the older and slower systems offload computationally intensive tasks, and remotely run applications on, the new high-end systems.

Disclaimer: there is no factual evidence for any of this, and it may be that Craig had one too many beers last night instead.

Phil St. Romain · 06-01-2003, 12:34 PM

Craig, I see your point about an initial release not necessarily being beta-ish. I bought a G3 desktop when they first came out in the Fall of 97 and it served me flawlessly for four years. The first G4s were also quite reliable, as I recall.

What seems new, here, is the combination of both significant processor and OS upgrades. But you're right: Apple usually does their homework.

AHunter3 · 06-02-2003, 03:14 PM

I want a dual-processor PowerBook running them things.

yellow · 06-02-2003, 04:44 PM

Cool articles (what I could understand) Craig.
oooOOoooOOo 4 processors!!

AKcrab · 06-07-2003, 05:17 PM

Apple to Announce the Power Mac G5 at WWDC
Please, oh please let it be true.

yellow · 06-07-2003, 05:29 PM

Wonder what kinda price-tag the dual 1.8s will carry.. Anyone speculate on whether my GForce4 Ti will work in a new G5?

mervTormel · 06-07-2003, 05:33 PM

sweet zombie crizzapy! good eye, crabby.

anyone seen any flop metrics for these new processors?

danielmaui · 06-07-2003, 07:44 PM

I saw that AppleInsider story too, and I'm hopeful, but did you happen to notice that the last update on their front page (http://www.appleinsider.com/) was 2 months ago?

Daniel

AKcrab · 06-08-2003, 02:02 AM

Quote:


	Originally posted by danielmaui ... did you happen to notice that the last update on their front page (http://www.appleinsider.com/) was 2 months ago?

I speculate they were waiting for "solid" information.

05-14-2003, 09:08 AM	#1
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	PPC 970 info and speculation A couple of articles to start out with: PDF reprint of a Microprocessor Report article from late last year. Ars Technica's Hannibal Stokes with Part II of his comprehensive (given what IBM will let out) analysis of the 970, and why he (like many of us) are sure it was designed with Apple in mind. Finally the (in)famous benchmarks rumored at MacBidouille.

05-14-2003, 10:29 AM	#2
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	boy, that macbidouille article makes no sense at all. it's like jibberish in some foreign language, to me ;] so, Craig, i understand you've been following this closely? care to speculate about any of it with some sweeping generalizations of the kind we like to hear? __________________ On a clear disk, you can seek forever.

06-07-2003, 05:33 PM	#18
mervTormel League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,536	sweet zombie crizzapy! good eye, crabby. anyone seen any flop metrics for these new processors? __________________ On a clear disk, you can seek forever.

05-14-2003, 11:05 AM	#3
bassi Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 498	The Stokes' comment about the application of the Altivec core seems to be the giveaway about Apple applicability. I just can't figure out what the speed of the frontside bus would be and if it fixes Apple to nVidia and their nForce motherboard (rapid IO etc.)

05-14-2003, 11:06 AM	#4
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Well, it'll be the thing that finally gets me off my butt to replace the G3's. But seriously folks, I believe this is the calibre of system that Mac OS X was originally spec'd for back in 1998, as it was becoming apparent that Rhapsody wasn't going to make it, and I think it comparable to the move from the 68040 to the PPC601. I'd also expect Panther to be optimized for this system. The real question of course boils down to price. A base (1.4 gHz?) single proc system had best not exceed the $1499 for the current low end tower, and a high end (dual 1.8 gHz?) the current $2699 'Fastest' model. At those prices it could become 'The Year of the Tower' pretty quickly.

05-14-2003, 11:24 AM	#6
bassi Major Leaguer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 498	With the new nForce chipset I can't imagine a price lower than $3000 if they're dual processor. From the article and unsubstantiated rumours I get the impression that the processors will start at or around 1.8 Ghz and top out at 2.2 Ghz. I hope you're right about a base single processor model. I think your assessment of OSX usability is spot on. I just wonder if Panther will be compatible with older G3 systems or will there an arbitrary cut off.

05-14-2003, 05:02 PM	#7
AKcrab MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 1,043	Very detailed 'rumoring' going on over at arstechnica today. Honestly, most of it is way above my head, but some here may get a lot out of it.

05-14-2003, 05:19 PM	#8
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Yup, that's the Hannibal Stokes article we're talking about. Reading the forums over there makes it look like some of the Wintel people are feeling a little threatened. Who'da thunk it?

05-14-2003, 09:51 PM	#10
Phil St. Romain Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,350	Ah, our very own 970 rumors/discussion thread! Glad to see this happening. Since I just bought a 1 Ghz FP iMac, I'll probably feel like a chum for not waiting for 970 and Panther, but what the heck! It might take them a year after release to iron the wrinkles out.

05-31-2003, 10:32 AM	#12
Craig R. Arko Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,988	Well, after thinking this through a little more and digesting the more recent {whatever you want to call it} from the rumor mills, I now think: The 970 will make an appearence in Apple computers , and the early debut is likely to happen in a new XServe design, and maybe in a new workstation class machine above (and pricier than) the current PowerMac line, aimed directly at the professional media creation markets; The other systems probably won't transition processors until early next year (January perhaps). Some will go 970 and others will go to a souped-up 750. There will be distributed computing technologies in Panther that will let the older and slower systems offload computationally intensive tasks, and remotely run applications on, the new high-end systems. Disclaimer: there is no factual evidence for any of this, and it may be that Craig had one too many beers last night instead.

06-01-2003, 12:34 PM	#13
Phil St. Romain Site Admin Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,350	Craig, I see your point about an initial release not necessarily being beta-ish. I bought a G3 desktop when they first came out in the Fall of 97 and it served me flawlessly for four years. The first G4s were also quite reliable, as I recall. What seems new, here, is the combination of both significant processor and OS upgrades. But you're right: Apple usually does their homework.

06-02-2003, 03:14 PM	#14
AHunter3 Hall of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 3,032	I want a dual-processor PowerBook running them things.

06-02-2003, 04:44 PM	#15
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	Cool articles (what I could understand) Craig. oooOOoooOOo 4 processors!!

06-07-2003, 05:17 PM	#16
AKcrab MVP Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 1,043	Apple to Announce the Power Mac G5 at WWDC Please, oh please let it be true.

06-07-2003, 05:29 PM	#17
yellow Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,677	Wonder what kinda price-tag the dual 1.8s will carry.. Anyone speculate on whether my GForce4 Ti will work in a new G5?

06-07-2003, 07:44 PM	#19
danielmaui Prospect Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 13	I saw that AppleInsider story too, and I'm hopeful, but did you happen to notice that the last update on their front page (http://www.appleinsider.com/) was 2 months ago? Daniel