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Old 05-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #1
NovaScotian
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Thunderbolt to eSATA conversion

A mid-2011 iMac doesn't have an eSATA connector, which means you're stuck with the speed of FW800 for external drives. What's the big hangup with a conversion kit? The only thing I can find is an OWC mod to the iMac itself to bring an eSATA link outside the machine, but that's done in house at OWC and probably voids its warranty.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #2
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I believe there are other choices but here is what you want from Lacie for example, thunderbolt to Esata hub.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10574
Its $200. Direct, Apple, and other places.

May I ask why you want to go Esata over Thunderbolt directly? Depending on what you want to buy you might be better off with some of the single, dual drive or thurnderbolt arrays like below.

http://barefeats.com/hard151.html
http://www.barefeats.com/tbolt02.html

If one already had a large investment in esata drives and arrays it might make sense to go esata. But to me if your buying new you might want to go straight to thunder. Of course the choices are not mutually exclusive. You can go with a hub to esata and also go thunderbolt directly.

Last edited by anthlover; 05-03-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
I believe there are other choices but here is what you want from Lacie for example, thunderbolt to Esata hub.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10574
Its $200. Direct, Apple, and other places.

May I ask why you want to go Esata over Thunderbolt directly? Depending on what you want to buy you might be better off with some of the single, dual drive or thurnderbolt arrays like below.

http://barefeats.com/hard151.html
http://www.barefeats.com/tbolt02.html

If one already had a large investment in esata drives and arrays it might make sense to go esata. But to me if your buying new you might want to go straight to thunder. Of course the choices are not mutually exclusive. You can go with a hub to esata and also go thunderbolt directly.

Thanks for the links. I want to go to eSATA primarily because I have two large capacity external exclosures with multiple bridges: USB, FW800 and eSATA and they have eSATA drives in them. Thunderbolt drives are still very expensive and eSATA is significantly faster than FW800 which is how they're connected now. I have an ExpressCard/34 eSATA card for my MBP, but the iMac doesn't have a slot for it. At $200 for the hub and another $50 for the cable, I may just stick with FW800
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Last edited by NovaScotian; 05-04-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:36 PM   #4
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It seems reasonable if you have large arrays. For individual drive enclosures the speed is probably not worth the delta as FW800 probably can keep up.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
It seems reasonable if you have large arrays. For individual drive enclosures the speed is probably not worth the delta as FW800 probably can keep up.

The more I think about it, the more likely that is, anthlover. Backups are constipated by the software probably, not the hardware and further, the drive in the iMac isn't a screamer. I have a 3G eSATA 10,000 RPM drive I'd love to use though (currently in a late 2005 PM G5/2.3 where it was very effective). I'd love to use that as a boot drive -- 10,000 RPM does make a difference.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:40 PM   #6
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FW800 vs. Esata

There is no question the Esata interface is faster though of course not as fast as Thunderbolt. The limiting factor is the drive/s. SSD and arrays being very fast. It took me a while to find any recent single drive comparisons. I found one old and one new.

The First link is from 2007 review of Quad Interface drive with a then 500GB drive in it and the speed difference was a wash. The latter test using the same case newer version with current top of the line 3TB actually surprised me how fast individual drives have gotten.

http://eshop.macsales.com/NewsRoom/F...w_quad500.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/Revie...yElitePro.html
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
http://macperformanceguide.com/Revie...yElitePro.html

I have an OWC Mercury Elite Pro quad external housing -- that is what was driving the initial query here.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:54 AM   #8
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What IS this thing?? Thunderbolt HUB???

Can you use it to attach multiple monitors to a thunderbolt port? (If you do, will the MacOS understand that it has two displays (or three in the case of my MacBook Pro) or will it "see" the daisy-chained displays as one ultrawide, the way the Matrox DualHead adapter does?)
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:20 AM   #9
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My understanding of Thunderbolt whether there are direct ports or a hub is that all devices are treated natively and under there capabilities. In the case of Macbook Pro, two external real displays and Internal display as well as storage and other devices were there any. I do not believe you can use two Display port, HDMI, DVI ones, but Definitely two Thunderbolt ones.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
What IS this thing?? Thunderbolt HUB???

Can you use it to attach multiple monitors to a thunderbolt port? (If you do, will the MacOS understand that it has two displays (or three in the case of my MacBook Pro) or will it "see" the daisy-chained displays as one ultrawide, the way the Matrox DualHead adapter does?)

The Display System Preference pane understands that there are two displays, but the Finder treats them as one giant desktop.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
What IS this thing?? Thunderbolt HUB???

The display plugs one Thunderbolt plug into your computer. From that, the display provides FireWire, Ethernet, USB sockets, and another Thunderbolt socket for Hard drives and yet to be invented what-have-you.
You can also get Thunderbolt boxes that do all this, without the monitor. Hence, hub.

Last edited by benwiggy; 05-17-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwiggy
The display plugs one Thunderbolt plug into your computer. From that, the display provides FireWire, Ethernet, USB sockets, and another Thunderbolt socket for Hard drives and yet to be invented what-have-you.
You can also get Thunderbolt boxes that do all this, without the monitor. Hence, hub.

It has eSATA too. Pricy, though. $200 for the hub + $50 for the T-bolt cable (only available from Apple stores or online from them). For now, until the price comes down if it does, I'll stick with FW800
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
I do not believe you can use two Display port, HDMI, DVI ones, but Definitely two Thunderbolt ones.

Damn. So you can't use this hub to connect two (instead of one) DVI displays, huh?

The only Thunderbolt display I know of is a massively huge and expensive one from Apple.

I'm using a USB display device for 3rd monitor now and would love to replace it with a hub that lets me plug both into Thunderbolt. USB display has its limitatons.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
Damn. So you can't use this hub to connect two (instead of one) DVI displays, huh?

The only Thunderbolt display I know of is a massively huge and expensive one from Apple.

I'm using a USB display device for 3rd monitor now and would love to replace it with a hub that lets me plug both into Thunderbolt. USB display has its limitatons.

Do you mean 3 monitors including your machine's built-in? If you want two DVI monitors added to an iMac, for example, you can use two mini-dvi to dvi convertors from Apple @$19 ea. I've got a 22" DVI Samsung stuck on one of them next to my iMac and it works well.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
...If you want two DVI monitors added to an iMac, for example, you can use two mini-dvi to dvi convertors from Apple @$19 ea. I've got a 22" DVI Samsung stuck on one of them next to my iMac and it works well.

I'm guessing you mean mini Displayport to DVI not mini-DVI to DVI.
Only the newest iMac 27-inch has two of those.
Without that 27-inch iMac, you'd need that Matrox dual-head box to add more than one DVI display.
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #16
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I'm guessing you mean mini Displayport to DVI not mini-DVI to DVI.

Actually, the product I have plugged into the back of my 27" iMac is labeled "Apple mini-DVI to DVI Adapter". $19 from Apple. Apparently the mini Displayport and the mini-DVI share pinouts and profile.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:55 PM   #17
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Your iMac 27-inch is a mini DisplayPort. A Mini-DVI connector is too large to fit.
Picture of mini-DVI connector:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kobushi-mini-dvi.jpg
compare to mini-DisplayPort:
http://www.google.com/search?q=mini+...w=1011&bih=850

There's a couple of pictures on that page showing the actual ports on a MacBook Pro. You'll notice that the mini-DVI connector is similar in shape, but is visibly taller than the mini DisplayPort.
Another view shows a Mac mini from a couple of years ago, a fuzzy picture, but shows both mini-DVI, and mini DisplayPort on the same computer, close to the center. They look similar until you see them side by side.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaMac
Your iMac 27-inch is a mini DisplayPort. A Mini-DVI connector is too large to fit.
Picture of mini-DVI connector:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kobushi-mini-dvi.jpg
compare to mini-DisplayPort:
http://www.google.com/search?q=mini+...w=1011&bih=850

There's a couple of pictures on that page showing the actual ports on a MacBook Pro. You'll notice that the mini-DVI connector is similar in shape, but is visibly taller than the mini DisplayPort.
Another view shows a Mac mini from a couple of years ago, a fuzzy picture, but shows both mini-DVI, and mini DisplayPort on the same computer, close to the center. They look similar until you see them side by side.

I stand corrected, DeltaMac -- I do have a mini-DisplayPort to DVI connector. My earlier post was incorrect, as was the price which is $29.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #19
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My computer is a MacBook Pro with a single Thunderbolt port, which has the same physical profile as the mini DisplayPort.

So, is there, or is there not, a way to plug in a Thunderbolt hub and then plug in two mini DisplayPort-to-DVI adapters, one to each socket in the hub, and thereby run two (non-Apple, but DVI) monitors for a total of three functional screens? (Without the Matrox kludge-thingie)?

If it's really a hub, why wouldn't I be able to? A hub, pretty much by definition, has at least two sockets of the type that you plug the hub itself into, yes? So the hub would give me two thunderbolt ports?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #20
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Display Port and Non Display Port Displays are not Equal

As I mentioned earlier, I did not believe... Display Port and Non Display Port Displays are not Equal.

Here is Apple's support Document. # 13 below I believe is the final word.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219?viewlocale=en_US

13. How do I connect my Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to my Thunderbolt-equipped Mac when I have other Thunderbolt devices connected?

When connecting a Mini DisplayPort display or a display using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to a Thunderbolt peripheral (except as described in question 14), make sure the display is connected at the end of the Thunderbolt chain. You can use only one Mini DisplayPort device in the Thunderbolt chain.

Note: Systems with more then one Thunderbolt port, like an iMac, can have more then one Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor connected with a Mini DisplayPort adapter connected as each Thunderbolt port can support one Mini DisplayPort display.
--------------

In short I believe a Macbook Pro with one thunderbolt port can support Two thunderbolt displays and an internal or one Non Thunderbolt Display.

A Mac with more then one Thunderbolt port can drive more then one Non thunderbolt display.

The one possible way I could see around this is if you bought one Apple Thunderbolt Display and put a non Thunderbolt display at the end of the chain.

Last edited by anthlover; 05-21-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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