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Old 03-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #1
duckdodgers
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Any way to run 10.3.8 in 10.7.2?

Hey guys,

So I've been using an ancient Powerbook G4 with 10.3.8 for the last 7 years or so and just bought a mac mini server with lion along with vmware fusion, hoping i could use my old os inside lion. While I was using 10.3.8, I cloned my HD to a bootable external FW HD, which has served me well.

I plugged in this clone and obviously I'm unable to boot from it in lion, so i went ahead and installed vmware fusion thinking i'd be able to run the bootbable HD there, but it seems that vmware only works for 10.5 and 10.6. Am I missing something? Is there any way to run 10.3.8 using vmware?

what about virtualbox or parallels?

I'm guessing to use all my old apps, i'm gonna have to just get snow leopard and install that using my mac mini server in target drive mode? is that the only way to do this? please help!

Thanks!
Jake
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #2
trevor
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OS X 10.3.8 is all PPC processor code. VMWare doesn't emulate PPC, it's an Intel-processor environment only. The same is true of VirtualBox and Parallels.

So, no, you can't run OS X 10.3.8 in VMWare, VirtualBox, or Parallels.

Sheepsaver might let you run old Classic Mac OS code in Lion, but I don't think it will let you run OS X 10.3.8. That said, I'm hardly an expert in Sheepsaver, maybe there's some way that I'm not aware of.

Honestly, if there are apps in OS X 10.3.8 that won't run in OS X 10.7.2 (and you've verified that they absolutely won't run, and haven't been updated for the newer version of OS X), what I would do is buy a KVM to connect both the computers to the same monitor, keyboard, and mouse, and just keep your older Mac next to your newer one, switching between them whenever you wished.

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Old 03-27-2012, 11:57 PM   #3
cpragman
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Got my old mac running headless under my desk. From my new imac, I open a Screen Sharing session to the old mac, do my thing with the old program, and then disconnect when done.

After reading up about VirtualBox, Parallels, and VMWare, what I took away was that the "guest" OS must be capable of running unvirtualized on the hardware for any of those three options to work. In addition, VMWare and Parallels respect Apple's licensing restrictions, and only allow you to virtualize copies of the MacOS Server OS, not the normal OS. VirtualBox does not strictly enforce this, but I'm my trials, it didn't matter, My mac is too new, and 10.6 would not load as a guest OS under VirtualBox, because it didn't recognize the hardware it was running on (brand new iMac), and refused to load. That means your copy of 10.3 would have to be capable of running on your new hardware, but it can't. As Trevor says, 10.3 is all PPC code, and won't run on today's Intel Macs. 10.3 won't even install as a guest OS under these virtual systems, because it won't recognize the current hardware.

If you can get 10.6 to run on your new hardware, then you've bought yourself time to get off those old programs. If not, then you'll have to run both macs side by side (KVM switch or screen sharing).

Last edited by cpragman; 03-28-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #4
AHunter3
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The only way I have ever heard of to run 10.3 in emulation is an emulator called PearPC. It's a windows-based emulator. You can run Windows at full throttle in Parallels or VMWare and then run PearPC under Windows.

I haven't done it yet.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:51 PM   #5
duckdodgers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevor
OS X 10.3.8 is all PPC processor code. VMWare doesn't emulate PPC, it's an Intel-processor environment only. The same is true of VirtualBox and Parallels.

So, no, you can't run OS X 10.3.8 in VMWare, VirtualBox, or Parallels.

Sheepsaver might let you run old Classic Mac OS code in Lion, but I don't think it will let you run OS X 10.3.8. That said, I'm hardly an expert in Sheepsaver, maybe there's some way that I'm not aware of.

I've looked into this a little, my theory being that my old machine was dual bootable (OS9 and 10.3.8) and that I could boot into OS9 using Sheepsaver and then boot into 10.3.8 by selecting that startup disk in OS9, but I don't think it'll work. I guess its worth a try. Anyone done this with Sheepsaver?

Thanks for the input!
Jake
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:59 PM   #6
duckdodgers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
The only way I have ever heard of to run 10.3 in emulation is an emulator called PearPC. It's a windows-based emulator. You can run Windows at full throttle in Parallels or VMWare and then run PearPC under Windows.

I haven't done it yet.

I've been spending all day trying to do this. I compiled Wine, which took a few hours, then read a bunch of documentation about how to operate it. It took a while to figure out. Then I had tons of errors trying to run PearPC in Wine. I got slightly better results using WineBottler to run PearPC VirtualBox GUI, meaning I was actually able to call up my 10.3.8 ISO file and configure it, but trying to actually load it up was fruitless. I kept getting ActiveX runtime errors. I'm guessing even if it worked, I'd have limited functionality and this compiling stuff is a little over my head. I haven't taken a c++ class in 10 years!

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jake
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:55 PM   #7
anthlover
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What applications do you need from 10.3x? There will be application options. Now that said PowerPC Code was supported through 10.6.8 via Rosetta. And Classic OS9 stuff through 10.5.8

Thus If you were going to VM Something I would imagine it would make sense to do 10.5 or 10.6.

Much less heart ache to find new apps.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:34 AM   #8
benwiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
And Classic OS9 stuff through 10.5.8

Classic was not supported in Leopard. The last OS to use Classic is Tiger.

I would agree that most apps that run on 10.3 should have new versions that will run on Lion.

Whilst it may be possible to emulate or virtualise early OSes in much more modern hardware, there is little point, unless the apps truly have no modern counterpart or other product that can open their files.

The last update to Panther (10.3.9, by the way) was in April 2005. Your new Mac Mini is seven years older. You are not getting the benefit of your new machine by running an ancient (in computer terms) OS and software on it.

Tell us what apps you use, and I'm sure we can suggest more up-to-date replacements.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #9
anthlover
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10.4x then for Classic and 10.6x for Rosetta. My bad, its been a while. None the less your best bet is new Apps or conversion. We really need to know what your trying to run to help.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:23 AM   #10
duckdodgers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthlover
10.4x then for Classic and 10.6x for Rosetta. My bad, its been a while. None the less your best bet is new Apps or conversion. We really need to know what your trying to run to help.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Basically, I'm a musician running ProTools 6.7 about to upgrade to ProTools 10. I just got a Mac Mini Server running Lion. The last OSX that works with 6.7 is 10.3.8 which is what I'm running on my old machine. This would all be fine, except I have a bunch of unfinished sessions in 6.7 that will remain unfinished for at least a year. ProTools 10 CAN open 6.7 ProTools sessions but its screws them up. So if I want to open these sessions in their pristine state, I need to use 10.3.8 so I can run ProTools 6.7.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:22 PM   #11
trevor
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You haven't mentioned why my KVM idea won't work. Just keep both computers.

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Old 03-30-2012, 02:32 PM   #12
DeltaMac
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Hmmm...
I bet that ProTools won't work well in a VM, either.
Keeping the old hardware intact is likely your best plan.

The KVM plan may turn out to be a better idea, as that will leave you with essentially the same hardware - probably a Good Thing™ when using an older version of ProTools, eh?
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:30 PM   #13
anthlover
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Ahh. Well at makes sense. Good news if you end up needing old hardware you can pick it up inexpensively. Keep CCC clones for safety.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:25 PM   #14
AHunter3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3
The only way I have ever heard of to run 10.3 in emulation is an emulator called PearPC. It's a windows-based emulator. You can run Windows at full throttle in Parallels or VMWare and then run PearPC under Windows.

I haven't done it yet.

Did it.



Pain in the posterior. Finding decent documentation was difficult. There's a control panel a separate download that generates setup files that actually work; I have no idea what it changed that wasn't present in the original text file, but I got it to boot.

Don't much care for the mouse behavior in PearPC within WindowsXP within Parallels. There are native PearPC binaries compiled for MacOS X itself and I'd prefer that (expecting nicer mouse behavior) but I'm not looking forward to configuring it unless there's a similar control panel for the MacOS version of PearPC.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:19 AM   #15
cpragman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckdodgers
ProTools 10 CAN open 6.7 ProTools sessions but its screws them up. So if I want to open these sessions in their pristine state, I need to use 10.3.8 so I can run ProTools 6.7.

Perhaps you can contact the ProTools developer and encourage them to fix the incompatability. Or find someone with a working version of ProTools 6, 7, 8, 9 etc. that CAN import the files without damage.
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