Macbook won't boot up, have tried everything - PLEASE HELP!

[sombrejohn]

Hi all,

I have a white MacBook, about 4 years old, Intel Core 2 Duo. It won't boot up, despite having tried all the steps I've come across on Apple Support, then other potential fixes on various forums. Here's the story:

1) To begin with, it wouldn't boot past the blue screen. I'd get the chime, the apple logo, the spinning wheel, then it would start alternating between the grey screen with the spinning gear and the blue screen with nothing.
2) So I tried a safe boot (waited a long time, but nothing happened)
3) I tried Verbose mode and got this message:
Firewire (Otlcl) Lucent ID 5811 built-in: handleARxReqInt-ARx Request packet error, status=0xe00002c7
alternating with:
Firewire (Otlcl) Lucent ID 5811 built-in: handleARxResInt-ARx Response packet error, status=0xe00002bc
(my bold) - this message just ran and ran
4) I tried all the other steps suggested by apple support on this page: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2570
5) After having done the NVRAM/PRAM reset, after the chime, it would only go to a blank grey screen - no apple logo, no spinning gear nothing
6) So I tried putting in the install disc that came with my MacBook and booting with 'C'. The chime would be followed by the sound of the disc spinning but nothing would happen, and after about a minute the disc would stop spinning. Just blank grey screen all the time.
7) I tried removing the battery and the hard drive, to force it to boot from the install disc - same results as above.

This is where I'm at now - I can't eject the disc (which is undamaged, by the way) and I'm at a loss what to try next. I've tried putting the HD back in and the battery. Same old. Any ideas on what else I can do before I give up and take it to Apple (not so easy from where I'm living)?

Also, what do you think the chances are of my files surviving on my hard drive? How can I try to access them - on another Mac with the same/similar OS (mine is/was OS 10.5.4)

Thanks in advance for reading this and any help you can give!

[trevor]

Quote: Firewire (Otlcl) Lucent ID 5811 built-in: handleARxReqInt-ARx Request packet error, status=0xe00002c7 alternating with: Firewire (Otlcl) Lucent ID 5811 built-in: handleARxResInt-ARx Response packet error, status=0xe00002bc

It's sounding like the most likely possibility is a hardware fault on your motherboard, sorry. I'll try to help with some minor points, though:

Quote: This is where I'm at now - I can't eject the disc (which is undamaged, by the way) and I'm at a loss what to try next.

Turn the power on and hold down the trackpad button continuously while it begins its failed boot. The disc might eject--that function is in firmware and it seems like your firmware is still fine since boot happens up to a point.

Quote: Also, what do you think the chances are of my files surviving on my hard drive? How can I try to access them - on another Mac with the same/similar OS (mine is/was OS 10.5.4)

The chances are very very good that your files are fine. You can try to boot the MacBook in FireWire Target Disk Mode but given that the repeated error message mentions FireWire I wouldn't expect this to work. What you will probably have to do is remove the hard drive and put it into an external case designed for 2.5" SATA drives. Once you have it in an external case, any Mac (or for that matter even a Windows PC that is running MacDrive, or a Linux PC that has HFS+ support) can read and save your files. You don't require a Mac with a similar OS version.

Trevor

[benwiggy]

Can I just check that you haven't got anything plugged into the FireWire port? If so, unplug it and see if that helps. But I suspect that trevor's analysis is correct.

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn Also, what do you think the chances are of my files surviving on my hard drive? How can I try to access them - on another Mac with the same/similar OS (mine is/was OS 10.5.4)

OS X 10.5 introduced Time Machine in 2007, a feature for creating automatic backups of your files. Backups are necessary because things go wrong. If you don't have one now, you should plan to start one.

Secondly, any reason you haven't applied all the System Updates? The last version of Leopard in 10.5.8, and there are many security updates as well.

[sombrejohn]

Thanks for the responses lads - I appreciate you taking the time to help.

re It's sounding like the most likely possibility is a hardware fault on your motherboard, sorry. - 'sorry' because it'll be expensive to fix/replace? (I should say at this point I don't know much about computers)

re Turn the power on and hold down the trackpad button continuously
- have tried this (and holding F12 or the Eject button), it doesn't come out. I've seen on iFixIt a guide to opening the Macbook up and removing the optical drive, then the CD from the drive, but it looks awfully fiddly and seems that there is the potential to damage some fragile cables/connectors in the process, so I am reluctant to go this route. But will give it a try if it's the last resort.

re remove the hard drive and put it into an external case designed for 2.5" SATA drives - thanks for the suggestion. I've ordered an external case and I have an old iMac (OS 8.6) I can try loading my files onto - you reckon this should work out ok then (assuming the MacBook's hard drive itself is fine)?

re Can I just check that you haven't got anything plugged into the FireWire port - no, nothing. I've never even once used the Firewire port!

re Backups are necessary because things go wrong. If you don't have one now, you should plan to start one. - yup, lesson learned...

re Secondly, any reason you haven't applied all the System Updates? - not really, just that before this happened, everything was running fine, so I figured 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Could the security updates you mention have helped prevent something like this, do you think it could've been a virus or something? (sorry if I'm talking rubbish!)

Again, thanks for your input.

[trevor]

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn Thanks for the responses lads - I appreciate you taking the time to help. re It's sounding like the most likely possibility is a hardware fault on your motherboard, sorry. - 'sorry' because it'll be expensive to fix/replace? (I should say at this point I don't know much about computers)

Well, yes. You would have to calculate if it was worth the time and money to fix it or if your money wouldn't be better served with a replacement. Paying someone else to fix it would clearly (in my opinion) be worth more than the computer is worth. If you wanted to do it yourself, it might be worthwhile. If I guess that the 'white MacBook, about 4 years old' means the MacBook (13-inch Early 2008), then motherboards (Apple calls them logic boards) cost between $449 and $549 US, plus shipping. This would mean that you would have to do the rather extensive work to replace it yourself, but assuming that the problem is indeed as I've guessed (which I can't guarantee, it is just the most likely scenario from what you've said) you would have the same computer as before, except working again.

OR, you could buy a new 13 inch MacBook Pro for about $1200 US.

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn re Turn the power on and hold down the trackpad button continuously - have tried this (and holding F12 or the Eject button), it doesn't come out. I've seen on iFixIt a guide to opening the Macbook up and removing the optical drive, then the CD from the drive, but it looks awfully fiddly and seems that there is the potential to damage some fragile cables/connectors in the process, so I am reluctant to go this route. But will give it a try if it's the last resort.

It's even more fiddly to remove everything and replace the motherboard. Perhaps a new computer is a better use of your time and money.

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn re remove the hard drive and put it into an external case designed for 2.5" SATA drives - thanks for the suggestion. I've ordered an external case and I have an old iMac (OS 8.6) I can try loading my files onto - you reckon this should work out ok then (assuming the MacBook's hard drive itself is fine)?

Yes, the files should save fine to your iMac running 8.6. Of course, they won't run on that old OS, and if the hard drive is as old as the computer, it's probably not a particularly reliable place to store them. That said, if they are on your external hard drive, then you can keep that until you have a new or fixed computer, and get them back directly from the hard drive--no need for the old iMac running 8.6.

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn Could the security updates you mention have helped prevent something like this, do you think it could've been a virus or something? (sorry if I'm talking rubbish!)

It's very unlikely that the symptoms you report are caused by any kind of malware.

Trevor

[sombrejohn]

Thanks Trevor. You're correct about the model - it's a 'Penryn' 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Intel MacBook.

So, assuming that it is indeed the Logic Board that's faulty and needs replacing (is there any way I can confirm this diagnosis myself, or will I need to take it to a pro?), I could try replacing it myself. I've had a look at the iFixIt guide and it does look pretty fiddly, but I reckon I could do it OK.

I've found a Logic Board on ebay which would be around 300 dollars including shipping (to Europe), so financially that doesn't look too bad. My fear would be that if these Logic Boards do have a shelf life of only 3-4 years, then this one might not last that long either. ..

My other thought is this: given that I've come across some accounts of Apple replacing out-of-warranty components free-of-charge, if there's no sign of user-damage (e.g. 'spilled drink' scenario), perhaps I should take it to an Apple store and see what they say (would they give a free quote?). After all, I bought the MacBook new in December 2008 and I've looked after it very carefully. In fact, it has mostly just seen home use. It's just that I don't live near an Apple store, otherwise I'd have done that immediately anyway.

Your thoughts?

[trevor]

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn My fear would be that if these Logic Boards do have a shelf life of only 3-4 years, then this one might not last that long either. ..

Electronic circuit board or (most types of) component failures aren't really of the 'shelf-life' type, where they are expected to happen after a certain point such as 3-4 years. If you look at a group of some device manufactured at the same time, you will see a whole bunch of failures bunched up in the first 30-ish days, then after that failures are spread fairly evenly across a LONG period of time. To say it another way, there's very approximately an even chance of failure at two months as there is at 10 years.

(There are some exceptions to this, for example some types of electrolytic capacitors basically do have a shelf-life, since the water in the electrolyte dries up over time causing the cap's equivalent series resistance to increase until they are useless. Also, there may be exceptions because of flawed manufacturing, like the weird capacitor plague from a bunch of Taiwanese manufacturers that happened around '99 and '00.)

Quote: Originally Posted by sombrejohn My other thought is this: given that I've come across some accounts of Apple replacing out-of-warranty components free-of-charge, if there's no sign of user-damage (e.g. 'spilled drink' scenario), perhaps I should take it to an Apple store and see what they say (would they give a free quote?).

It's certainly worth a try. They won't charge you for asking.

Trevor

[sombrejohn]

oh, and here's that Logic Board on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-White-...#ht_708wt_1104

[anthlover]

Making a Genius Bar Appointment is a good Idea.
I would not pay for the repair
I would buy New.