How to ID fonts with ligatures, etc?

acme · 05-08-2012, 10:46 AM

Forgive please if I selected the wrong category for this...

I'm interested in identifying type faces I have here which offer all the swashes and ligatures.

Is there a way to identify such fonts without loading them into font book, viewing each one at a time, etc?

I don't know if such fonts have a different code number or identifier or not.. I have a large pile of fonts and viewing each one for its ligature/swash properties would take a pretty long time.

thank you for any insight into this.

a

benwiggy · 05-08-2012, 11:06 AM

I don't know if there is a "scriptable" way, but generally, the Adobe OpenType fonts marked "Pro", have very large ranges of chars, including swash, discretionary ligatures, small caps, non-lining figures and much else.

Those are the ones designed by Adobe that you can use in apps like ... Adobe InDesign to take advantage of those OTF character sets.

The OTF fonts marked "Std" tend to have a much smaller range, comparable with old Type 1 PostScript fonts (sometimes a bit more).

DeltaMac · 05-08-2012, 11:07 AM

I suppose you would need something that can print out font samples. There's a large variety to try, some free, most paid for.
Here's one - http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/374...atalog-creator

Can you find one that will also print out the various ligatures and other typographic elements of a particular font? I don't know which utilities will print out with those details.

acme · 05-08-2012, 11:09 AM

Thank you for the information/links...big help..

another friend suggested the OS X Character viewer..not sure if he means that keyboard thing or the special symbols doo-dad which shows *everything*...prbly the latter..

a

macosnoob · 05-08-2012, 12:32 PM

Here's one approach: use EasyFind (or an equivalent search program that will scan within code), target the folder containing the fonts, and search for "ligature". Of the 161 more or less vanilla fonts in my /Library/Fonts folder, EasyFind suggests that I have 43 with some sort of coding for ligatures. Just what those ligatures are, I couldn't say.

acme · 05-08-2012, 12:38 PM

macosnoob...what are your search settings? that EasyFind is lickety-split but after scanning 6700 font files, it turns up nothing on the terms ligature or ligatures

I must have something set wrong...

macosnoob · 05-08-2012, 12:41 PM

See the EasyFind sidebar in the pic above for my settings.

acme · 05-08-2012, 12:46 PM

I get the same result: nothing with your exact same settings precisely.

I am pointing EasyFind to my type faces folder...Even quit and restarted EF.. thank you for the idea tho..maybe I'll just contact Devon and ask them what I'm doing wrong.

a

benwiggy · 05-08-2012, 01:30 PM

There is no instance of the word "ligature" in Adobe Garamond Premium Pro.otf, a font which has 2371 characters and probably more ligatures than any other.

DeltaMac · 05-08-2012, 02:02 PM

So, how would you pick out the fonts that DO have ligatures, even though the word "ligatures" apparently might not be used within the font file? Would one of the more-specialized font library apps, or a font management utility give you that function reliably?

benwiggy · 05-08-2012, 02:16 PM

I have Linotype's FontExplorerX, and I don't think there's a way to isolate fonts in that way.

The majority of fonts will have the common f ligatures -- fi, fl, ff (though some sans faces don't have any).
If you're talking about Discretionary Ligatures: ct, st, sp and so on, then really you're looking at Serif faces only -- and most of those will be the "Humanist" style of serif face, though that can be a subjective distinction for some faces.
Swash characters are mostly in Italic faces of similar faces, as well as script faces.

Can I ask what the purpose of the search is? It seems a kind of backwards request, from my experience of graphic design/print production etc. Is it likely that someone will say "show me all the fonts that have ligatures"?

If you are planning to use these styles in InDesign or Quark, then you are limited to OpenType fonts, rather than .ttf fonts (which I don't think can be used with those programs' Style selections), then that brings you back to the Adobe Pro Collection, many of which are included with Creative Suite. (and found in /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Fonts.)

macosnoob · 05-08-2012, 02:07 PM

@acme: Then let's try Terminal instead. Assuming fonts are in /Library/Fonts:

grep -i ligature /Library/Fonts/*

produces the same 43 files that EasyFind does.

@benwiggy: I'll have to take your word for it (and I do). I don't have a copy of that font to examine. What I'm trying to think of is some sort of low level way to find fonts that employ ligatures, something that doesn't require a visual inspection of the font itself.

@ all: That said, one could run a quick (?) visual test on commonly ligatured letter combos (ff, fi, fl,etc.). I'd modify a copy of the AppleScript found in /Library/Scripts/Font Book/Create Font Sample.scpt, replacing

set characters to tab & psName & return & return

with

set characters to tab & "ff fi fl" & return & return

To use the new script, first select all the fonts in Font Book, then run the script. As it churns through the fonts, a new TextEdit document will slowly be generated. (161 fonts took a couple of minutes. 6000 is going to take longer!)

05-08-2012, 10:46 AM	#1
acme MVP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,686	How to ID fonts with ligatures, etc? Forgive please if I selected the wrong category for this... I'm interested in identifying type faces I have here which offer all the swashes and ligatures. Is there a way to identify such fonts without loading them into font book, viewing each one at a time, etc? I don't know if such fonts have a different code number or identifier or not.. I have a large pile of fonts and viewing each one for its ligature/swash properties would take a pretty long time. thank you for any insight into this. a

05-08-2012, 11:06 AM	#2
benwiggy League Commissioner Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,040	I don't know if there is a "scriptable" way, but generally, the Adobe OpenType fonts marked "Pro", have very large ranges of chars, including swash, discretionary ligatures, small caps, non-lining figures and much else. Those are the ones designed by Adobe that you can use in apps like ... Adobe InDesign to take advantage of those OTF character sets. The OTF fonts marked "Std" tend to have a much smaller range, comparable with old Type 1 PostScript fonts (sometimes a bit more). Last edited by benwiggy; 05-08-2012 at 11:10 AM.

05-08-2012, 12:32 PM	#5
macosnoob MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,751	Here's one approach: use EasyFind (or an equivalent search program that will scan within code), target the folder containing the fonts, and search for "ligature". Of the 161 more or less vanilla fonts in my /Library/Fonts folder, EasyFind suggests that I have 43 with some sort of coding for ligatures. Just what those ligatures are, I couldn't say. Attached Thumbnails

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

05-08-2012, 11:07 AM	#3
DeltaMac League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,960	I suppose you would need something that can print out font samples. There's a large variety to try, some free, most paid for. Here's one - http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/374...atalog-creator Can you find one that will also print out the various ligatures and other typographic elements of a particular font? I don't know which utilities will print out with those details.

05-08-2012, 11:09 AM	#4
acme MVP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,686	Thank you for the information/links...big help.. another friend suggested the OS X Character viewer..not sure if he means that keyboard thing or the special symbols doo-dad which shows everything...prbly the latter.. a

05-08-2012, 12:38 PM	#6
acme MVP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,686	macosnoob...what are your search settings? that EasyFind is lickety-split but after scanning 6700 font files, it turns up nothing on the terms ligature or ligatures I must have something set wrong...

05-08-2012, 12:41 PM	#7
macosnoob MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,751	See the EasyFind sidebar in the pic above for my settings.

05-08-2012, 12:46 PM	#8
acme MVP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,686	I get the same result: nothing with your exact same settings precisely. I am pointing EasyFind to my type faces folder...Even quit and restarted EF.. thank you for the idea tho..maybe I'll just contact Devon and ask them what I'm doing wrong. a

05-08-2012, 01:30 PM	#9
benwiggy League Commissioner Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,040	There is no instance of the word "ligature" in Adobe Garamond Premium Pro.otf, a font which has 2371 characters and probably more ligatures than any other.

05-08-2012, 02:02 PM	#10
DeltaMac League Commissioner Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,960	So, how would you pick out the fonts that DO have ligatures, even though the word "ligatures" apparently might not be used within the font file? Would one of the more-specialized font library apps, or a font management utility give you that function reliably?

05-08-2012, 02:16 PM	#11
benwiggy League Commissioner Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,040	I have Linotype's FontExplorerX, and I don't think there's a way to isolate fonts in that way. The majority of fonts will have the common f ligatures -- fi, fl, ff (though some sans faces don't have any). If you're talking about Discretionary Ligatures: ct, st, sp and so on, then really you're looking at Serif faces only -- and most of those will be the "Humanist" style of serif face, though that can be a subjective distinction for some faces. Swash characters are mostly in Italic faces of similar faces, as well as script faces. Can I ask what the purpose of the search is? It seems a kind of backwards request, from my experience of graphic design/print production etc. Is it likely that someone will say "show me all the fonts that have ligatures"? If you are planning to use these styles in InDesign or Quark, then you are limited to OpenType fonts, rather than .ttf fonts (which I don't think can be used with those programs' Style selections), then that brings you back to the Adobe Pro Collection, many of which are included with Creative Suite. (and found in /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Fonts.)

05-08-2012, 02:07 PM	#12
macosnoob MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,751	@acme: Then let's try Terminal instead. Assuming fonts are in /Library/Fonts: grep -i ligature /Library/Fonts/* produces the same 43 files that EasyFind does. @benwiggy: I'll have to take your word for it (and I do). I don't have a copy of that font to examine. What I'm trying to think of is some sort of low level way to find fonts that employ ligatures, something that doesn't require a visual inspection of the font itself. @ all: That said, one could run a quick (?) visual test on commonly ligatured letter combos (ff, fi, fl,etc.). I'd modify a copy of the AppleScript found in /Library/Scripts/Font Book/Create Font Sample.scpt, replacing set characters to tab & psName & return & return with set characters to tab & "ff fi fl" & return & return To use the new script, first select all the fonts in Font Book, then run the script. As it churns through the fonts, a new TextEdit document will slowly be generated. (161 fonts took a couple of minutes. 6000 is going to take longer!)