Partitions?
 

I think I know what partitions are. I like some one to give me a proper definition of what they are. I know there are mulitple views of whether they are good to have or not. I like to see some people's opinions of the pros and cons of partitions. I am about to buy a new G4 Powermac (my first mac ever) and I am wondering whether I should partition my hardrive?

Congrats on getting a Mac! I'm jealous; I want a new Powermacs real bad.

In a nutshell, partitions make a single drive appear as more than one drives to the computer. I don't know exactly how it is done, but basically some meta-data on the hard drive says from block a to block b is partition #1, block b+1 to block c is partition #2, etc. When the computer sees this, it treats each of those partitions like a separate physical drive.

I haven't really heard any cons to partitioning other than that it can sometimes be overkill. The advantages are numerous. Depending on your situation, it can be very helpful in organizing your stuff and keeping certain things separate. For example, you could have your base system on one partition and the rest of your stuff on another. If something happened to the system and you needed to reinstall, you could wipe the partition clean and start fresh without having to worry about losing your other stuff. Partitioning can also be very helpful (and sometimes necessary) for people with multiple OS's on their computer. For example, on my Powerbook I have a partition for OS X, OS 9, and Debian.

If you are getting a new Powermac, I don't think you should worry about partitioning. The new Powermacs can't boot OS 9, and having OS 9 on a separate partition is one of the big reasons why OS X users usually partition their drive. Some people like to keep their apps and home directories on a different partition from the system, but I've never found this to be necessary.

You should only partition if you have more than one OS installed on your computer. So if you are getting a new Mac, don't bother, as you will be able to use X only.

Unless you intend to move your swap partition (that is a whole different beast) then don't bother. One partition will be fine for you.

If you have just one partition, then you always have the maximum amount of free space available. Also, you don't have to worry about not having made the partition for one purpose big enough or having made the partition for another purpose too big. If you have the money for several physical drives (two internal drives and or an internal and an external drive) then the argument for partitioning becomes weaker (in my *limited* opinion).

I have just one internal drive and no money for an external drive, so I formatted my drive with two partitions.

1) It is easier to do a quick full backup, erase, and reinstall, if this is ever necessary (such as with a new upgrade gone awry, or a new OS).

2) It is handy for repairs since I don't need to mess with a CD or buy the upgrade CD's for those otherwise free upgrades. For instance: When DiskWarrior comes out with 3.0, I'll buy a license for it. When 3.0.x or 3.1 comes out, I won't have to worry about getting a new CD, I'll just upgrade the copy on my other partition.

3) It is handy for easy automatic or non-automatic backups of current (and oft-changing) material.*

4) I have an OS X installation on each partition. That way, I can do Disk Utility repairs and permissions repairs without digging out the CD. Moreover, if one morning I find my system nonoperational and a nearing deadline means I don't have time to do repairs, I can just use the other parition with its recent backup to finish the project on time. (I have cron run a backup of current projects to the other partition at 4:15 each day). I would presume that this is not a violation of Apple's license, given that both copies are on one computer and cannot both be used simultaneously.

I have a 40 GB drive (really 38 GB). The large OS X partition is 32 GB and the small one is the remaining 6 GB. After putting OS 9, a lean OS X, and backups of current projects and oft-needed items on the small partition, there is still 3.2 GB left. I'm pleased with this, as it ought be sufficient space for near future needs, and yet it is not that much (keeping in mind that to be fully operational, I'd want 20 percent, or 1.2 GB free anyway).

* I have an old SCSI external drive that I do major backups to occasionally. I connect it to an old machine on the network and then connect to that machine with my Mac.

So, I think that it makes sense for me, since my budget limits me from buying a new bootable external drive.

I have an iBook 2002 and I have no idea on how to partion my drive. I need this since I am still learning my way on the mac and make heaps of mestakes thuse reinstall my os x 10.1.4 quite often.
plus: someone wrote: "If something happened to the system and you needed to reinstall, you could wipe the partition clean and start fresh without having to worry about losing your other stuff" is there a way to format a HD not by reinstalling mac os x?

Under OS 9, there FWB had a Disk Tool that I think would allow you to partition without reformatting. I don't know if such a thing exists for OS X, but even if it did, I would not recommend it...just about everytime a new operating system came out, you would have to wait for (or buy) an upgrade to FWB's Disk Tool before installing the new OS (or risk losing your data). Reformatting will result in the loss of all data on your drive (short of extra-extraordinary efforts to get it back). So, whether partitioning or reformatting, you'll need to back up any data which you want to keep that you don't already have on an installer disk; then after reformatting or partitioning&reformatting you'll have to reinstall the OS and all of your personal data. Because this is so much trouble, before you partition, you should think very carefully about how many you'll need and what each will do (and therefore, how big each should be). Keep in mind that people tend to say that you are best off if you can keep 20% of each boot partition free, for most efficient and stable use of OS X.

As for how to partition, you need to restart from your installation disk for OS X. If you intended to use Classic or OS 9, then you must be able to install OS 9 drivers. This is possible under the Disk Utility under OS X.2.4, but I don't know if it has always been. If this is not an option under the 'Partition' tab of OS X's Disk Utility, then you'll have to start up from your OS 9 installation disk and use Apple's Drive Setup. If you have no intention of using OS 9 and know that you never will, then you can restart from your OS X installation disk and ignore this issue.

Starting up from your OS X installation disk, the first thing you need to do is open the Disk Utility. In earlier versions of OS X, if you went beyond the first screen, you could not get back to the screen to open the Disk Utility. Once the Disk Utility is open, select the "Partition" tab and then select a disk from the left column. Then use the buttons to select how many partitions, and drag the tabs under 'Volume Scheme' with your mouse to select the size of each partition. Give each partition (called 'Volume') an name, and under 'Format' for each partition, be sure to select "Mac OS Extended". When all is set up the way you like it, click the 'Partition' button. Once it is done, you can quit the Disk Utility and begin to install OS X on one or more of the partitions.

You might go to the search for the forums and do a search on 'Partitions'. There are several discussions of partitions in the forums. Some discuss why you should not do it and others why you can't be without it and each side has its points. Others discuss things to be careful about when partitioning. If anyone thinks of anything to add to what I've said, or anything to correct, **please** reply.

Resize?
 

Is there a way to resize a partition in OS X? I would like make one out of my free space (20 gigs)

Tim

Re: Resize?
 

The only way to re-size a partition once you've set things up is to start over with the process described by macmath above. Be sure to back up first, of course.

>> Yes
 

Look at this:

http://www.fwb.com/html/partition_toolkit.html


but: the best way ist to make a bootable backup from all data (try Carbon Copy Cloner from www.bombich.com) and initialize the target drive with or without the different partitions.
then you can clone back from the backup-drive to the new system partition (enough space recommended).

Paritions Not Necessary in OSX 10.2 and later for most But there things you can
 

A drive like any other Pysical space can be Paritioned.. For Your main Physical Hard Drive there is no longer a motovation for Paritioning.

It used to be you would keep separate the Operating system and and Data. With OSX you might have OS9, OSX and Data and Apps Partitions. The advantage used to be if Os9 or X blew up and you needed a virgin install it would not take the other environments with it.

Both OS9 and OSX 10.2 and later offer Virgin clean Install Options now (without erasing the drive). In fact on newer systems Apple makes it difficult and does not support separating OSX and OS9.

The down side to Parititing is managing the data. If you choose the wrong size you might run out of space on one partition and wish you had not paritioned.

Partitioning still has value in many circumstances though..... For Example say you have an external firewire HD for Back Up (Using the fabulous $5 Carbon Copy cloner and you want to create Multiple Clones of your System. e.g. Regular Stock system, and One or more Environment/s that you trick out with every hack in the world.

If you paritioned that firewire Drive into 2 or more Paritions you can essentialy have not only Mulriple Bootable backups with different properties. You can take those environments in the Palm of your hand (Firewire Drive) and walk up to virtually any system and take your environment with you (system, Applicartions, Data, favorite settigns etc.)

ONE good reason to partition:
 

If your are doing a fresh installation of Panther on a new, probably bigger than your former, HD, there's at least one good reason to partition.

If you have, as I do, an expensive application for Classic, you might not be able to install it to the new HD, unless you have first partitioned the HD, and then installed a FULL Classic system on one partition (the Classic partition can be as small as 600 MB, if you say no to HD-greedy choices in the Classic installer).

I found this out the hard way, and had to redo my entire installation (or lose the use of 4th Dimension, a very powerful program I've already paid for).

After my original installation of Panther (onto a single partition, without first installing a full OS 9.2.2 System, 4th Dimension would not install to the Classic emulator served up by Panther. The installer failed. Only by the procedure above was I able to do it. There are probably other ways to do it, but that way worked. The partitioning scheme also let me have the Classic partition as HFS+, and then to use Journaling on the Panther partition.

So, now I'm interested in partitions and their uses.

Many other threads in MacOSX Hints say there are good discussions of partitions in these forums, but I'm still looking for that REALLY good one.

Classic Apps and a new HD are not reasons to Partition
 

There are many reasons why one might partiton drives.

However, As I said above Both OS9/Classic and OSX have virgin installs with out having to reformat and they both can live togtgher on one partition.

Partition partition partition! Lets go quickly through the advantages.

1) faster searches on the partitions
2) When your hard drive fills up, it will stay fast.
3) It wont take 2 days to defragment one hd, you can just chug on the partitions when you feel like it
4) Response is faster if you put the system on one partition and your documents on the other. I couldnt play quicktime movies at full frame rates b4, but now its pie.
5) Organization is loads easier, but you have to see it for yourself.
6) You can run differerent versions of OSX, very important to me because im a programmer and testing your apps for backwards compatibility is a sinch.

if I have a mac os x 10.1.5 and I want to have my data on one partition and the system on another, how can I utilize the convinant shortcuts to "home" and the data folders of the tool bar at the top of the folder, in finder. or the shortcut that takes me to "home" when I click on the fnder icon in dock?
it may sound stupid (and I never paied much atantion to it when I was a windows user) but that is one of ther reasons why I never did that eventualy.
well, I did but only for OS X and OS9.

If your System and your Users are separated properly (using symbolic links) onto partitons... clicking those shortcuts will take you to the right place everytime.

"If your System and your Users are separated properly (using symbolic links) onto partitons..."
Thanks but how exactly I do that????

u mean how do you partition?

you need to boot up from another HD then use Disk Utility to make the default hd into partitions.

Apps>utilities>Disk Utility>partitions button

no I meant what Mr yellow said "If your System and your Users are separated properly (using symbolic links) onto partitons... clicking those shortcuts will take you to the right place everytime".
but thanks any who.

P.S are there any external HD by Apple, or can I use any external HD, is it any good to have an external HD (I have a built in 20 GB on my iBook 2002), (can the iPod be used as an external HD or is it strictly an MP3 player), should I buy one with fire wire or usb is enough?
I know this is not the place for these questions but I don't think I'll be punished for asking :o)

Unless you count the Ipod, the Xserve Raid, or a powerbook/Ibook in Target Disk Mode
 

Unless you count the Ipod, the Xserve Raid, or a powerbook/Ibook in Target Disk Mode Apple does not.

Yes an Ipod makes moderately expensive 1.8 inch portable Drive too. You do have to be careful about formatting though. You accidenly wipe out its Ipod Capabilties.. I believe the restore disk though can repair it if you do.

Avoid USB external hard drives at all costs. Unless they are USB 2.0 and make sure that your computer supports USB 2.0. Old USB (1.x) is too darned slow.

As for moving the Users to a new partition, there's a hint on the main site to do it. This Link. Please be sure to read the entire hint and all the comments for some tips on making it work right.

There's also one on Mike Bombich's Site that might be easier to understand for something not used to this kinda thing, but his site appears to be down (for me at least) at the moment.

iPod can boot Panther
 

I learned about it in this thread.

Hmmm, I hope it's not immodest of me to cite a thread I started, but I was young and foolish when I started it, and learned a lot by the time it had accrued 7 posts.

To Yellow
 

there is a lot of info over the there but all together is a big mixup for me since I am unequainted with the terms used in those threads. the only one I did understad was this: "why not just use NetInfo Manager?
Authored by: rgoer on Thu, Jun 21 '01 at 09:34AM
Any admin-level user who also has root access can use the utility 'NetInfo Manager' to accomplish this same task, and without any of the (small) problems you have encountered.

1. enable root user
2. select any user whose home directory you wish to move to another partition
3. edit the properties of that user
4. in the 'home directory' field, enter the path to the new home directory

A new 'users' directory will be created one level up from the path (if I remember correctly) and everything should work fine." any way thanks for trying.

Personally, I'd rather have a symbolic link so that anything and everything that points to /Users/foo can easily find said user in /Volumes/Fud/Users/. Don't assume that everything will play nice with NetInfo Manager, or even play with it at all..

maaaaaaaaaan I am lost
 

But thanks any way. got to go back to anatomy of the domestic mammals for my final.

Anatomy of Domestic Mammals
 

Well, there's a lot of variability in the arterial supply of the mammalian kidney, whether domestic, feral, or 'wild.'

Re: Anatomy of Domestic Mammals
 

I bet you say that to all the ladies.. or gents.. whichever is your preference anonymous sir.. err.. or ma'am.

actually there isn't a lot of variability in the arterial supply of the mammalian kidney, but other organs... that is a different story

now to get back on topic...
 

I have a variation on the partitioning question:

I have a new G5 to which I've added another 160GB SATA hard drive. In the past, I've always partitioned my larger hard drives into something along the lines of OS, Data, Backups, etc. I'm curious, though, is this is really still necessary, given some of the comments in this thread? I'd love some clarification on the contradictions.

Most here seem to say that, given the current OS X installer's ability to do an "archive and install" over a messed up installation, the separate partition for the OS is no longer necessary. My experience, though, is that I still get much better results with a full "erase and install" when things go south. So, wouldn't an OS partition still make sense in my case?

Also, neverEVER wrote:

Now I know that defragging is highly overrated, but his other points are interesting. The question is, are they true? Especially on a 2GHz dually G5 with the SATA hard drive(s)? It's funny, but a 160GB drive just feels too big to leave as one volume!! Oh, how times have changed, eh?

So anyhoo, what would you whiz kids recommend in my case???

TIA,
John-o

merely one factor, here, affords considerable advantage to partitioning.

consider fsck'ing a 7 GB partition vs. a 160 GB partition.

a factor of time on the order of 20.

a reasonable system partition lets you get back to usability N times faster.

the end.

merv, very helpful, as usual...
 

But further questions arise:

Running 10.3.2, fsck is no longer necessary, because of journaling, am I right? That said, does whatever fsck-like routine that the system does itself with journaling become more streamlined with a smaller system partition as well? And specifically, does your reply imply that you use 7 gigs for your system partition?

Also, do you know of any advantages, on large drives like these, of still using a separate data partition as well? Things like the faster searches and better system responsiveness that neverNever claims?

Thanks,
John-o

journaling does not preclude the usage of the fsck utility.

safeboot will always fsck the system partition.

if a preen fsck fails, then the filesystem is checked. (q.v. man fsck) journaling minimizes the chance for dirty filesystems.

certainly, smaller partitions will require smaller journals, so the journal roll-back operation is also smaller. smaller == less time (generally)

i have several different sized partitions, currently, root is 7 GB.

smaller partitions usually equate to shorter, focused operations, since they hold less structures.

operations on all of a large volume's structures for a file will take considerably longer than the operation on a 10 times smaller volume, right? e.g.,

find -x / -group wheel

consider the above for a 7 GB system partition vs. a larger volume with many more files - orders of magnitude faster.

you can exercise this notion by targeting operations on different sized directories on your drive, say /usr .vs /etc

As I said earlier there are many reasons to paritition but.....
 

We deal with individuals and we are ourselves @ many different levels of user expertise with differering hardware. 7 Gig Drive and 120 Gig drive/ Partitions are book end sizes. Or At least pretty close to book Ends:) 4 gig and 250gig is about as far as you can go...

My main point with not parititioning has to do with the lack necessity in so far as being able to do virgin Classic and OSX installs with out reformatting and with out having to worry about making too small partition, e.g. leaving enough room for growth and swap file space, and at the same time for simplicity.

of course as drive sizes increase there are more reasons why one might want to partition. I for example have no reason to partition my 40 gig boot volume (2/3 free space). I do however paritition my 30 gig FW drive into two back up volumes.

And I suppose if my start up volume was 120 gigs or more I would probably would paritition into three 40 gig partions.

Which partition the boot partition?
 

Right now I have a 7 GB and a 31 GB partition on my 40 GB drive (of course, they don't add to 40), but I'm leaning mervTormel's way and if I ever fully backup and and start over, I'm think I might try that.

The answer to my question is probably that it really does not matter, but I'll ask it anyway.

Which 7 gb partition should hold the boot volume, the first or the last? Isn't the last one representative of the edge of the disk and therefore the OS and the swapfiles would be on the edge where reading and writing would be fastest [or is it the other way around]. Or with today's drives, does it really matter?

Thanks!

Yes! Do partition. Many advantages in having everything separated.

In my setup I have two discs of the same size, partitioned in the same way:

6GB for OS (7 or 8 next time, but eh).
10GB for Apps (12-15 next time).
Rest for Users

Advantages:

1. No matter how much you fill your userspace, your OS partition always has a good 2GB free.

2. Backup. Since I have two discs partitioned the same, I backup my OS only before major system upgrades, my apps once a week and my Users daily.

3. Ease of installation and re-installation. I can for example clean install panther (haven't yet) on my OS partition. I can tell it to erase the whole partition.

After the installation is done, I recreate my users (you do have to do it in the same order, or use the same UIDs, or use some scripting), re-link my Users/Apps, to their proper places and I'm back in business.

If a system upgrade goes bad, I can go back to the last working version from my backup.

4. Something nice about clicking on the desktop, typing A apple-O and being in my apps folder, or for installing.

---
For me the best way of doing this is not with symlinks but using fstab. That way the partition is actually mounted where it needs to be.

In other words, instead of having the Users partition in /Volumes/Users, it gets mounted in /Users, where normally a folder would be.

Haven't had any trouble with netinfo, installing, unix, or anything at all using this setup. Look for "setting up a mountpoint system" in the main site for instructions.

v

Actually that is one of my problems with partitioning in some cirsumstances
 

It is sometimes difficult to forcast how much space to allocate for each use without having to start over.

e.g. "(7 or 8 next time, but eh).
10GB for Apps (12-15 next time)"

When one does not partition you have as much space as you have, as opposed to allocation concerns.

That said Partitoning has many many many uses....

I still feel for the novice user Partitoning the OS/Application drive is usually a mistake. I do like partitioning FW Back Up drives though.

Then again, Everyone has different needs, different hardware, and differernt user experience levels.

As I mentioned it prior posts. I might not parition a 20 to 60 gig OS/Application drive. Once one Hits 80 to 250 gigs (for the average user) it starts to get slothful not to..

2 drives, 80 GB and 60 GB, partitioned into 5:
Jag (Jaguar)
Ravage (Panther)
Quicksand (Audio/Samples)
Face (Docs)
Tripp (biggest one, at 60 GB, also has my OS 9 install and 52 GB of tunes)

Works nicely, hoping to grab a controller card at some point so I can use more drives.

BTW, it doesn't seem to matter which partition an OS is on, they'll all boot with no issues.

However, I don't run Classic at all, and think anyone who does shouldn't bother. I boot into 9 when I want to play Rune or work in Poser 4. It seems that using classic makes your system bog down, among other negative effects.

Give each OS X install 20 GB, that's been about right for my installs so far. OS 9 can deal with 10 GB. It might seem like a lot, but over time, 10 or 15 for OS X has ended up being too small.

Anyone who is going to partition their drive, if you're happy with your install, use Mike Bombich's Carbon Copy Cloner (login as root first) and just drop that back on whichever partition you want as your system.

You can find the program here:
http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html