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tlarkin 01-14-2009 10:11 AM

Well, if you are interested you can watch a free movie online called Zeitgeist. Google search it and you will pull it up. It is broken down into three parts. The first two deal with religion and the whole 9/11 thing. Take it for what it is. The third part though is the most interesting in my opinion and it is about the economy and the free market and how it was manipulated by the government.

This is light weight conspiracy theory type stuff, so take it for what it is. They mention oil production and how it is nearing it's peak and at some point they will not be able to produce it as efficiently as they once could.

cwtnospam 01-14-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 513354)
The third part though is the most interesting in my opinion and it is about the economy and the free market and how it was manipulated by the government.

From what I see in it, they talk about how the free market is manipulated by corporate powers that manipulate the government. The power "behind" the government is not our government. Rupert Murdoch, for one example mentioned, is not the government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 513354)
This is light weight conspiracy theory type stuff, so take it for what it is. They mention oil production and how it is nearing it's peak and at some point they will not be able to produce it as efficiently as they once could.

That is serious, scary, and we're not doing anything about it. "Drill baby, drill" is only making it worse.

tlarkin 01-14-2009 10:48 AM

The only reason I will discredit some of it is because it has gaps in information when regarding Rothchild and Rockerfeller. While, I am not saying it is impossible I just know they have a few of the dates a big skewed.

Also, the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing is well, also stretched. The economy one I believe the most.

The section on religion is no news to me, as I have read up on many different ancient and current religions.

NovaScotian 01-14-2009 10:51 AM

Since the incoming administration in the USA must surely be aware of all these breeches of the public trust in markets, I'm betting that there will be some hefty regulations coming down the pipe soon. I think the pendulum is about to swing the other way; hopefully not overdoing it.

aehurst 01-14-2009 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 513348)
That's opposite the point! Unless your definition of "free market" is one where the government does not manipulate it but corporations are free to control entire segments of the market instead of competing.

Non-interference by government would be exactly how I would define "free market." Government regulation is, in my view, interference with the free market.

Please note I did not say corporate manipulation was a good thing.... it isn't. Anything that interferes with competition on a level playing field is bad. Of course, we should regulate those actions/people who interfere with proper market operation.... and the oil bubble is a classic example of why we should do that.

cwtnospam 01-14-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst (Post 513362)
Non-interference by government would be exactly how I would define "free market." Government regulation is, in my view, interference with the free market.

:eek:
But that's a pointless definition, as you show:
Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst (Post 513362)
Of course, we should regulate those actions/people who interfere with proper market operation.... and the oil bubble is a classic example of why we should do that.

If there are people who are able to "interfere with proper market operation" that can only mean that the market is not free!

fazstp 01-14-2009 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaScotian (Post 513360)
Since the incoming administration in the USA must surely be aware of all these breeches of the public trust in markets, I'm betting that there will be some hefty regulations coming down the pipe soon. I think the pendulum is about to swing the other way; hopefully not overdoing it.

The timing of all this financial bedlam is kind of interesting. I wonder if people could see the party was soon to be over and decided to take what they could and run before it all hit the fan.

aehurst 01-14-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 513365)
:eek:.... If there are people who are able to "interfere with proper market operation" that can only mean that the market is not free!

What I am suggesting is that a totally free market is not necessarily a good thing. Restraints and restrictions are necessary.

fazstp 01-14-2009 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehurst (Post 513414)
What I am suggesting is that a totally free market is not necessarily a good thing. Restraints and restrictions are necessary.

Either way human nature will out. Give the markets free reign and we've seen the results. Give the government tighter control and you're open to corruption as people try to grease the wheels.

NovaScotian 01-14-2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 513411)
The timing of all this financial bedlam is kind of interesting. I wonder if people could see the party was soon to be over and decided to take what they could and run before it all hit the fan.

Funny, I was saying the same thing to my wife last night -- then I said "Nah, that's just too much of a conspiracy theory!". She didn't think so, agreed with your point.

ArcticStones 01-14-2009 06:26 PM

The secret story of 2 trillion dollars
 
.
Quote:

Quoted by fazstp:
Asked if there is price manipulation going on, Dan Gilligan told Kroft, "I can't say. And the reason I can't say it, is because nobody knows. Our federal regulators don't have access to the data. They don't know who holds what positions."

"Why don't they know?" Kroft asked.

"Because federal law doesn't give them the jurisdiction to find out," Gilligan said.
Sort of like no one having the right to demand how Mr Bernanke & the Federal Reserve Board has spent $ 2,000,000,000,000 (that’s two trillion dollars!)? Or what security, if any, they have received for taxpayers in exchange!?

By the way, two trillion dollars is about six time as much as the 350 billion spent by the US Treasury Dept., and makes the "controversial" bailout to US automakers look like pocket change.

cwtnospam 01-14-2009 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 513417)
Either way human nature will out. Give the markets free reign and we've seen the results. Give the government tighter control and you're open to corruption as people try to grease the wheels.

There is a better way. Government shouldn't try to control. Instead, regulation should be aimed at creating and maintaining a free market. That's a primary reason for anti trust laws, and it's high time we used them again. Any company that is "too big to let fail" is also too big to be allowed to remain in one piece.


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