Do I *really* have USB 2.0?
 

Hi -- I'm trying to hook up an external HD by USB on my eMac 1Ghz, Power PC G4.

It's been SLOW SLOW SLOW! (.6 Mb/s rates)

The System profiler tells me I'm running USB 2.0 (with speeds of "Up to 12 Mb/sec"). But I've read elsewhere that Apple's "USB 2.0" may really be "USB 1.1."

Anyone know?

My girlfriend's Intel MacBook also says "USB 2.0" but claims speeds of up to "400 Mb/sec". The transfer rate for her USB was 1.7 Mb/s.

Thanks

"12 Mb/s" indicates USB 1.1.
USB 2.0 is something like 480 Mb/s but is actually much slower due to some technical "packet transmission" thing.


OFFTOPIC:
Firewire 400 is actually vastly superior to USB 2.0, as it maintains a constant data rate, instead of

USB 2.0:
Firewire:
All of the stopping and starting slows the USB protocol down.

So why does Profiler tell me it's 2.0?

What is your Mac do you have? Detailed info so I can look up your model number. Even the most modern Mac has both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0.

Attachment 2767

It's an eMac 1Ghz, Power PC G4. I think I got it in the summer of '03.

Check your machine type. According to MacTracker:
PowerMac 4,4 has slow USB
PowerMac 6,4 has fast USB
Both models were made with 1GHz processors.
http://mactracker.ca/

Machine Name: eMac
Machine Model: PowerMac4,4
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.6.4f1
Serial Number: G83334CUNM2

That eMac has USB 1.1, not 2.0. That's why it's so slow.

Mactracker is a great little program that has buckets of info on every Mac.
mactracker.ca
and yes, your eMac has USB 1.1, I don't understand why your system profiler is confused.

I wonder why his Mac reports he has USB 2.0 when he doesn't...?

It's Really slow!

The System Profiler does not display 'USB 2.0' or 'USB 1.1' at all.
- but only shows 'USB bus' for USB 1.1, or 'USB Hi-Speed Bus' for USB 2.0

Au contraire.

It displays "USB 2.0" for the backup drive when it is inserted.

As well, Apple makes the same claim: http://support.apple.com/specs/emac/eMac_USB_2.0.html

Might be good to copy a file of a known size, transfer it, time it, and work out what the transfer rate was. Since we know that USB 1.1 tops out at 12 megabits per second if you're lucky, if the actual data rate is anything above that, we know that it's USB 2.0 running really slow. And when you do this, don't forget to account for the difference between megabits and megabytes in your calculations.

I did just that -- that's how I know about my rate of .6 and my girlfriend's rate of 1.7.

Oh sorry. I fail at reading the first post. :(

Au contraire x 2.

First, "it" is displaying USB 2.0 for the backup drive when "it" is inserted because the backup drive is USB 2.0! The backup drive is identifying itself to your system.

Second, perhaps you should have checked your serial number against Apple's list of models before falsely claiming that they were branding your eMac as USB 2.0. Note that the last three digits of your serial number are NM2, which indicates that you have an "eMac (ATI Graphics)" not an "eMac (USB 2.0)". If you look at the correct specs page for your model, you will see that Apple does not claim your eMac has USB 2.0.

Third, 1.7Mb/s is super slow for USB 2.0. There may be something wrong with your drive or your girlfriend's MacBook. Are you trying to transfer one large file or numerous small files? The latter will lead to slower transfer times, but I wouldn't expect it to be that slow. Are there additional processes going on that would slow the transfer down? I can get read rates of ~30MB/s and write rates of ~20MB/s with my USB 2.0 external drive and its not the fastest drive either.

Touché.

This is why I post in these forums -- you folks know more than I do. I just wish I knew to ask *before* I bought.

As an aside, this USB nomenclature is what angers me about consumer computers. I am a *very* pedestrian user: internet, email, desktop apps, music, etc. Yet, much of what is needed (even for Mac) is difficult to decipher. Would it be too much to simply and prominently label each computer? eMac version 5? eMac version 6 etc.? (I've had this computer for 5 years and used its USB and never even knew that I was under the wrong specs.) I have never confused the batteries for my remote, nor the oil filter for my car, nor the blade for my circular saw.

These are consumer components. I don't need to find serial numbers for them, nor determine which model (if I even knew there *were* different models) in that year my computer was.

Sorry to rant, but --even Mac-- computer companies seem to think that regular consumers don't use their products.

I appreciate your complaint, but I think it's important to note that there was nothing much you could have done differently or better. Your computer simply has old technology and the drive you bought does work (although slowly) with the USB you have. But I guess you might have bought a Firewire drive if you had realized how slow a USB drive would be with your computer.

I would recommend buying a FireWire drive. As mentioned above, FireWire is going to be much faster than USB 2 in the real world.

Trevor

You mean like they do for cars? LE, XLT, LS, SX, LT, etc. They don't even mark the model year in an obvious spot on cars. And the only way you know what oil filter goes in your car is by looking it up in your car manual, because the manufacturers have been known to swap one engine for another between model redesigns.

I think one of the issues here is familiarity. You are likely quite familiar with cars and power tools, and so you intuitively know where to look for information and don't really think about it. I suspect that you are not nearly as familiar with computers, and thus they seem a little intimidating. Even if you do know where to look for information, you aren't necessarily sure that you are reading it right.

My wife couldn't go down to a hardware store to buy a new blade for my circular saw (short of asking a salesperson to find it for her) because she isn't at all familiar with the saw and what determines whether the blade is compatible with it. It wouldn't be hard for her to learn, but she's never taken the time and has no inclination towards this.

Add to this the fact that the computer industry changes much more rapidly than the automotive or power tool industries, and it is easy to see why a casual or "unfamiliar" user can be left in bewilderment. There are probably better ways that manufacturers could brand their computers such that consumers could follow the technology developments, but it isn't as easy as you might think.

Well, I don't know if it's that bad (the auto parts store has a simple book in front of the shelf -- year, make, model, sometimes engine size -- nearly no mistakes possible) but I get your point.

But that really only means that *both* industries should become more user friendly.

This is one reason why I bought a Mac -- I didn't want *another* "hood to pop" in my life. Plug 'n play, as they say. (I recently spent *hours* figuring out how to burn a TV-playable DVD from a computer video. This shouldn't be that difficult.)

Oh well, I guess it's another complication to master. Good thing you folks are around to guide me along. Thanks.

Touché. I suppose there is a case for that.