reasons for keeping your PowerPC G3/G4/G5
 

I thought it would be interesting to start a post for all of the reasons for keeping an older PowerPC Mac. I know that there are tons of posts about this topic on this forum, but they aren't located in a single thread, yet. Scores of Mac users are buying new Intel Macs, but is selling their older PPC hardware a no-brainer?

I got my MacBook Pro a few months ago, and I decided to keep my PowerBook because I wanted to be able to run legacy software. That decision turned out to be a good one for many reasons. One reason: games. A lot of games that I had purchased for my PowerBook just don't run well under Rosetta. Even though the MB Pro is much more powerful, the translation of code takes a huge toll and introduces all kinds of new problems.

What other reasons should users think about before selling?

Novel idea...a lot of software (a LOT of "niche" software that no one wants to update, sadly) I use is PPC only, and crashes under Leopard.

Diablo II being one of them. I have to reboot into Windows for that.

Have you applied Blizzard's new patch for Diablo II? It brings the version up to 1.12 and… "Fixed an incompatibility between Rosetta and OpenGL mode on Intel Mac."

I'll add another reason for keeping a PowerBook:
Apple does not currently sell a notebook with a 12" screen size.
The smallest is 13"+, or 15"+ if you need an aluminum shell.

I've got a dual 2.0 ghz G5 that I got in 2004 and while I'd like to get a new Mac, it's hard to justify spending the money in this economy when the G5 is plenty powerful enough for everything I do. In fact, most of the time I keep folding@home running in the background with no noticeable performance hits.

A laptop would be more convenient though...
:rolleyes:

On a general note, I am keeping my 17" iMac because as pretty as the new iMacs are, I do not like the shiny glass screen nor the cut down wireless keyboard. If I wanted Leopard, I daresay that I could get it to work, eventually, on my existing machine. What I would really like is a 20" iMac PowerPC, but nothing has come up so far on Apple refurb or Cancom.

Perplexed

An original Powerbook is used in my home to run X-10 automation.
My original Mac Mini will soon be used as a combo file server and music Jukebox.

I have a perfectly good Epson scanner (SCSI) which is the only reason to keep my beige G3 minitower networked via my router. I keep thinking I should buy a new USB scanner to plug into my PowerMac G5, but I so seldom use the scanner anymore, it seems a needless expense.

I spent a fortune on that G3: G4 processor upgrade, maximum RAM, ATA PCI card with two extra hard drives, CD rewriter, graphics card upgrade... I couldn't do any more to it. I resisted OS X as long as I could (Panther finally sold me).

The G3 is slow, to be sure, but it still runs and could still provide emergency backup. It has never let me down. But then, neither has my G5. Well, except for frying my Firewire inputs with a system upgrade.

I finally invested in a Dell 2408 TFT monitor. What a difference to my web browsing from my fuzzy old CRT! The G3 (OS 9.1) recognised it immediately and the 1920x1200 pixel image was just a click away. It's a shame to think this old G3 is worthless...

I am most hopeful that I will be able to buy a new Mac soon. I plan to keep my G4 iMac and use it for my web cam and possibly some home automation tasks.

What sort of automation tasks? Like spider defense systems?

Some more uses for a G4:

My PowerBook has a screen with a 4:3 ratio, and is still perfect for many older movies and games. The downside is that it's only 12" diagonally. I can get a 4:3 screen area on my MB Pro with black bars on the left and right, and the viewable area is about the same size.

It also has a built-in modem which is handy if I ever need to use a dial-up connection. Luckily, that doesn't need to happen very often.

All my stuff still runs classic which I use from time to time.

Very important reason:

Device drivers! I have two different USB audio devices, and one FW/USB hard drive that will not work properly under Leopard. The problem is really a Tiger vs. Leopard issue, but since I don't have Tiger for Intel, and Leopard for PPC is far from perfect, I can add it to the list. I'm getting the feeling that maybe Leopard was the first great OS for Intel, and Tiger was the last great OS for PPC.

Another one:

Yellow Dog Linux! It's built specifically for the PowerPC architecture, which means: Mac and Sony PS3. Pretty cool that we can use the same version of Linux that was released for the PS3. I haven't installed it yet, but I'm looking forward to putting it on my PowerBook in the near future.

My 7" PowerBook has a CardBus slot. A MacBook Pro would have one of those newfangled ExpressCard slots instead. I like to run 3 screens (the built in plus one external attached to standard DVI-video out port plus one external attached to my VTBookDD Cardbus card).

The VTBook does not appear to be compatible with any of the ExpressCard-to-CardBus adapters, nor is there an ExpressCard video card like the VTBook as of yet, so I'm in no hurry to upgrade.

For all everyday purposes a G4 of this vintage is plenty powerful enough. I don't even find my old WallStreet (with a G4/500 Mhz Sonnet card) to be too pokey for most things, and that's, what, maybe a 6th or less of the processing oomph that's standard nowadays?

We're all using bazookas to kill flies nowadays.

I just sold my MDD dual 1.25 G4 and my G4 dual 500. I had no need for them, and while I was sad to see the MDD go, it is still worth like $400+ so I was benefiting more from selling it now rather than later when the value went further down. I kept my G5 desktop though.

My G5 desktop is currently my only mac desktop at home, my test server, has 3gigs of RAM and a dual 1.8 G5 processor in it. While, my Macbook Pro runs circles around it, it is nice for me to have a server and a client I can use in my home for when I want to bring my work home.

Now, only if you could virtualize OS X then I could maybe justify getting a Mac pro, running one server VM and like 5 client VMs to test things out at home. However, that is not possible now, but Apple has let Parallels virutalize their server OS, so maybe it is around the corner.

My point is, if you aren't going to use it sell it now while it's value is up. Old macs really don't have a lot of future especially since 10.6 is cutting off PPC support. I also think that considering if you need a spare system, and have an older G4 or G5 you can sell it for a decent amount and then just buy a new intel system with a little extra money.

Yep. Insta-crash.

I must have missed that model. Was it a limited edition version?

Re: The personal arms race
 

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My main computer for work is a 17" PowerBook 1GHz maxed out at 1GB RAM. It’s well over 5 years old. I purchased it just when they came out. My primary needs then were: word processing, email, web browsing and PDF proofing.

Sure, I can afford a new laptop or desktop. In fact we purchased a black MacBook; my wife uses that, as I prefer the significantly greater screen real estate of my 17" PB.

Laurie Anderson does a wonderful piece about The Personal Arms Race. It is so tempting to succumb to that, especially as needs change...

Today my primary needs are: word processing, email, web browsing and PDF proofing.

:cool: ArcticStones

I obviously meant the 7mm-screen iWatch.

It would be great if Apple were able to simultaneously release two types of OS, or make available two modes within a single OS. One which emphasizes efficiency, power saving, speed, and simplicity, and a second which emphasizes graphic/sound effects, environmental immersion, and multi-media playback/creation.

Another interesting tactic would be to treat the Mac exactly the same as a console game system. They choose one hardware specification, and see how far they can push it with software, OS, and firmware updates. After about 4 years, they release another hardware specification jump. That would be very interesting, indeed.

Another use for a PPC Mac:

Charging station! These days, most of us have devices that charge via USB, but our main computers don't often have enough USB ports to connect to everything simultaneously. USB hubs are cheap, but often don't have enough power output for charging, and they don't play well with audio devices that require low latency I/O.

I use the last G4 iMac as a fax and scanning station, as well as emergency other uses if my PA's machine ever went down. Still looks great, too.

Runs a nice up-to-date Tiger install and I have no complaints, especially with the amount of scanning it has to do. I think it runs a backup disk for the network as well. Nice piece of kit.

Just remembered that I use my 12" G4 PB as a media player. Has DVI out, my TV has HDMI in. Got a cheap converter cable and it works great. Wireless too slow for streaming, but good enough for copying what I want to watch onto the PB's hard drive. Just have to plan ahead. Mostly use it for US and Brit TV shows that aren't available here....

Older hardware
 

I have had my Pismo since day one, and I can't bear to part with it. I've lived through almost every Powerbook out there, from the 100, 150, 180, 230, 250, 280c, 540c, 1400c, 2400c (best pre-G3 'book out there, IMO), 3400c, MacBook Pro, G4 Ti 867, you name it, I've played with it. And the Pismo takes the cake. In this age, I use a G5 for my daily machine, mostly to play games or surf the internet. But when I hit the road, I take my Pismo along for the ride. Two battery bays, Newer Tech 7500mAh batteries, that's close to ten hour runtimes. OS X Panther isn't the snappiest, and I've found for the Pismo's paltry 400MHz G3 is more suited to Jaguar; web surfing and email are just fine for what I need.

Bottom line? I won't turn down a MBP, no way. But don't expect me to let go of my duo-tone chunk of plastic that is my Powerbook.

As far as desktops go, I have my B&W Rev 1 G3 running as a email, web, file, and print server in the basement. Longest uptime was 488 days, and that ended due to a storm that knocked out power for two days. Though the MDD and Graphite G4 machines will forever hold a special place in my heart due to the amount of Photoshopping and FCP I did on them.

All you have to do is check eBay or local Mac dealers to prove that the depreciation of a Mac is eternally slower than that of a comparable PC. G4 MDDs are selling for nearly $600. I sold one of mine for more than that, and I paid $2400 new. Retaining 25% of a computer's value after five years isn't often heard of outside of the Mac community. Already a Dell Optiplex that was $1200 new is worth less than $100 now, only four years later.

Why buy a MDD for $500+ when you can get a Mac Mini for less? Or a G5 for a little more? Because people know Macs are solid, from the hardware to the OS, and they are top notch performers. Avid realized this, and as a result, some 9600 setups are still in use today for high end video work. I suppose style comes into play; Jobs did a good job revolutionizing the computer industry from dull gray boxes to pieces of art you want to show off rather than hide under your desk.

Perhaps Leopard isn't best for my older Macs. Even Tiger disappoints me with some machines. But that's why I don't use them with my older hardware; all I ask of Apple is continued support for OS X. Keep those tweaks coming for all of your operating systems. Mac OS 9 may be in the dust by now, but give me some OS stability or security updates every few months.

And isn't it time OS 7.6 became a free download?

You can use almost any machine as a file server and backup for your main computers . I have an 8500/250 with a G4 Sonnet upgrade inside as well as two extra hard drives running Panther. It used to be my main computer. This is connected via ethernet to a router and backing up is very easy. I have another G4 Sawtooth as my media machine and use it to store all iTunes tracks , family photos and a few home videos. These are both cheap and reliable machines and while not rocket fast , have a definite few years left in them for me. I can also boot them into OS9 or Panther if I need to and have USB and SCSI, so almost anything can be connected to them.

Stewie

Yeah but for file servers I prefer to just build a cheap PC and toss several large hard drives in it then load Linux on it. Voila, secure, cheap, and lots and lots of storage and I can build it to spec.

I say sell your older macs while their value is higher and apply it to a new Mac, but that is just me. After using my Macbook Pro I hardly ever even want to use my G5 desktop because it is slower than my laptop.

That's fine if you normally get paid to do those things anyway. If you don't, the aggravation, money, and time needed to sell the Mac and buy and configure the PC is going to outweigh any benefit.

And since Microsoft is likely to get a cut of any PC you buy, there's a moral issue to consider.

I build the PC from newegg.com for real cheap. I can build an awesome file server for home use for under 500 easy and it will have large hard drives and it will run Linux.

Microsoft gets no cuts from that.

I see nothing there that's that cheap. Even if you can get one that cheap, if you add in time spent setting it up and supporting it, it's cheaper to keep the Mac.

Good counterpoint, but the whole reason I use Mac is that I love the OS. The hardware is also very nice, but it's not the main attraction for me. I simply don't like Windows OS, and I haven't had much experience with any of the Linux distributions. I'm planning to install Yellow Dog Linux on my PowerBook soon to see what it's like, but it's going to take time to learn how to use it.

Aren't any of your clients doing interesting things with their PPC Macs?

Oh sure we still have some PPC macs in my network. We have eMac labs in the middle schools and some older PPC macs in the high schools. Most of my clients that I have kept on the side from when I was a contractor have migrated to intel as I really push that. PPC macs are sluggish compared to Intel ones. It takes me longer to image and netboot a PPC mac over an Intel, or if I use a PPC server on intel clients it takes longer.

There is nothing wrong with PPC Macs, and I still have my G5 desktop at home, but there is no doubt that the Intel ones are way more powerful machines. I mean they are also newer architecture. Since Macs, hold their resell value pretty high I just sold my old G4s, made almost around $700 for both of them. I can then build a brand new C2D PC desktop with a terrabyte of storage for a file server. Linux is free and stable so I use that.

Granted, I guess not everyone wants that and would just prefer the easier interface of the Mac OS, but I can't justify spending that much when I can accomplish the same for less.

I am in the middle of mass imaging 6,000 Macbooks right now at work and I have been keeping track of AFP throughput (via server admin) and have been graphing progress. I have really neat comparisons of an Intel Xserver versus a G5 Xserve, and you can clearly see that the Intel not only beats it, but does a Bruce Lee flying dragon kick to it's head knocking it out.

I want to write up a document for my website I am building right now on mass OS X deployment. I will put those graphs in there showing how much better and faster the newer hardware really is. Once snow Leopard comes out and they ditch the bloat for PPC support I think it will be even faster. So once my project is over in 2 weeks I will start writing it up.

I am digressing a bit, so to steer back on topic, there is nothing wrong with your PPC Mac, but in my opinion you are better off selling it now while the value is higher and applying that difference to an intel Mac; and if you really want a file server with a terrabyte of storage space it is not all that hard to build a PC and slap Linux on it and use SMB to share to your Macs. I plan on doing that when I build my new gaming PC this fall.

1]
My PowerBook is proving to be a very useful tool for troubleshooting other PPC Macs, or for troubleshooting Intel Macs that still use Tiger. Sometimes, I need to see exactly what my clients are seeing, especially if I'm walking them through something on the phone. Also, using the PPC platform on a daily basis keeps everything fresh in my mind.

2]
I also use it when I have to connect to devices which may be malfunctioning. The MacBook Pro is too expensive to sacrifice as a test machine.

3]
With the release of 10.5.5, Leopard performance on my PPC Mac has improved considerably, so the PowerBook is now a very satisfying Leopard station. I give Apple "two thumbs up" for continuing to support the PPC platform, and I hope we see more performance improvements for Leopard in the near future.

You can buy a USB adapter to give yourself 802.11 "N".
I haven't tried it yet, but there is one made by Edimax which is supposed to work well.

my PPC (2004 iBook G4) is just as functional as any intel puppy out there. slightly slower, but not in any way I really notice (except during startup, maybe, but who needs to restart a mac?). I expect to get another 2-3 years of use out of this before being forced to get a new machine.

My old PowerBook G4 is now essentially an AppleTV, sending music and audio/video podcasts to my TV via HDMI/DVI. But unlike the AppleTV, this thing can play DVDs. All made possible by Apple's early support of DVI in laptops and I'm really pleased at how well Leopard functions as a media center in a PowerBook G4 that really is getting kind of old, and yet still run a big screen thanks to Apple's optimization of OS X.

However, for daily production I won't touch the G4 anymore, that's why it's at the TV...the MacBook Pro blows it right outta the room in CPU, RAM, screen, you name it.

I sold my old G4 desktops, one MDD and one dual G4 500Mhz off of criags list. Sold them both for a combined $650, which I applied towards a new purchase of something else.

I say sell them while their value is up and apply it to something else, unless you really need/want the older Mac lying around.

I recently retrieved a G3 iBook from my daughter who said it was broken. She hadn't used it for three years. The problem? Bad plug on the power adapter. Works fine now so I'm using it as a web cam server....

Korat Web Cam

Even does a fair job of streaming:

Korat Web Cam Streaming Version

Did you ask the buyers what their main intended use was?

Indeed, let's hope that Apple releases a version of Snow Leopard for PPC Macs.

That brings to mind another good reason for keeping a PPC Mac. It'll give you a second DVD player with a second drive region. If you find that you end up buying DVDs from 2 different regions, like I do, this will be a huge plus (since Apple only allows 4 changes of the DVD region setting).

I guess one could go out and buy one of those stand-alone DVD players that can play back every region, but that's extra money, extra space in your dwelling, requires a TV, and doesn't allow you to rip the disc to an HD.

No I just told them I wanted cash in person and they could have them. I think the MDD G4 was going to be used in a recording studio.