I'm very confused. How to mix PCs, Macs, Airport, b/g, n, MAC controls?
 

I'm sorry as I'm sure this is the umpteenth time someone's asked for similar help, but I'm not sure how to get all this connected, and I am hoping someone can give me some suggestions regarding my particular situation and needs.

I have to get a new router, but they're all confusing me. What do I look for to get all of this connected. Of most confusion is what happens if I get a wireless router while having an Airport Extreme? Do I still use my Airport Extreme or does a wireless router render it unneeded?

Here's what I'm trying to connect:

Ethernet:
• 2 Macs
• 2 PCs

Wireless:
• 1 Mac
• 2 PCs

Protection:
• WPA2

Protocol:
• PCs need b/g connection
• Mac needs n

Other:
• various printers, fax machines, etc. Some direct, others wireless.
• Parental Controls via MAC address
• Long distance wireless capabilities through walls

Dream:
• Would love to be able to access parental controls from remote location via my Mac


Where do I start? Do I go for a wireless router? Wired one? Do the wireless ones even work right with Macs "n" technology? Which brands are known to be reliable, especially for long distance wireless abilities? Does anyone know which brands or models are strong with parental controls? Is there any brands that I should at least stay away from?

I know you guys know your stuff, and I would really appreciate it if you can help me out. There are so many different brands and capabilities of routers these days, it would take me forever to try to figure it all out. If someone could at least point me in some kind of direction, that would be very helpful.

Thank you, as always. :)

Your Airport Extreme is a wireless router! What model of Airport Extreme do you have? If it is new enough, you can use it to connect almost everything. You will need to buy a plain vanilla ethernet switch in order to expand the Airport Extreme to support 4 wired connections.

Your Mac does not "need" n. It is backwards compatible with b and g. However, it would be nice to have n for a little extra speed. Again, it becomes important to know what model of Airport Extreme you have? Is it one of the 802.11n models, or an older dome shaped model?

The network in question currently has an older "dome" model. I have a newer "n" model, but I don't want to remove it from the location it's at right now.

Also, the current router, cable modem, hubs and all are located in a different place than the Airport Extreme. I can't move everything to the location of the Airport Extreme in a reasonable manner (major rewiring). The Airport Extreme is in it's location to try to avoid the wireless signal passing through a fireplace which greatly blocks the distance of the signal.

The problem is that my husband is working at home, and the room he's using for his office is on the other side of the house. He's having problems connecting so he's taking the cable modem to his office. The kids are unhappy because this disables their ability to get on the internet.

My husband bought a very cheap router a while back, and we believe it needs to be replaced. So we're hoping to get something with very strong parental controls while we're at it. And we also need to bolster the signal, if possible. As it is, the Airport Extreme is using an extra antenna just to reach his office.

I might be able to add a second Airport Extreme on the network, but that doesn't resolve the router issue. So since I have to get a new router, I'm trying to figure out which kind would work best for our situation.

Really, what would be handy would be a sketch of everything you have laid out on a floor plan. Then we would have a better idea of what is feasible and what isn't. Otherwise, I might suggest something that is completely impractical for you. Is it possible for you to sketch out a floorplan with computers, routers and cables sketched in?

Yes, I can, but that would be quite an undertaking. Let me see what I can come up with.

Okay, got it. The lines in the computer room are hard to follow so to help clarify what's there.

There are 7 items wired.

• 3 items are wired directly to the router. The 4th connection on the router connects to a hub.
• That hub then runs lines to the remaining 4 items.

The Airport Extreme is ran directly off of the router, not the hub. The Airport Extreme is used as a bridge, not to create a network.

http://www.vickishome.com/0TempFiles/Network.gif

So, looking at your diagram and re-reading your previous posts, all you are trying to do is replace the old cheapo router in your computer room? Since you already have a hub, you could get an new Airport Extreme and put that in the main computer room and move the old Airport to the other computer room. This would extend the wireless coverage over your house and allow you to roam more with your laptops. The new Airport Extremes have 3 ethernet ports, so combined with the hub you should be able to service all 7 wired items.

Alternatively, if you don't want to add a wireless router, I would go with a gigabit Ethernet wired router from Linksys. Either way, it doesn't look like you need to string cable throughout your home, so the solution is much simpler than what I had originally envisioned - thanks for putting up the diagram!

I have similar challenges in my home. Two distinct computing zones that have a bit of distance and major signal obstacles between them. Wireless extension solutions did not give me the reliability and throughput I wanted, so I bought a pair of these. I hang one from my main router, and the other from a switch at the far end, and they're fast and reliable (as long as you have good electric wiring). All machines are managed by the main router in terms of access control, IP addresses, etc.

In your case, though, the distance doesn't look too far. A purely wireless extension solution may work for you. I needed enough reliable speed for transporting and backing up large files across the house.

I definitely could extend the network using another airport. I've done it before. But the router we're using is acting up and has to be replaced so I'd like to use this as an opportunity to include parental controls. I understand that an Airport Extreme is a router, but I don't think it has all the controls I need.

I need to have full control over certain computers in the house, controlling when they can access the internet and what functions are enabled and disabled. I also need to be able to block certain websites, either completely or during certain hours. I have to be able to do this only to certain computers while allowing other computers to be unaffected by the controls.

I have an 18 year old child who is mentally ill, and having a router set limits avoids physical confrontations. Think of 2 year old having a major temper tantrum, but with the physical strength of an adult. I need a router with good parental controls.

If I got a wireless router, does that replace my Airport Extreme?

If I used a wireless router AND Airport Extreme, would that cause problems?

Which brands have people found to work well in a mixed Mac/PC environment reliably?

The more I look at it, the more I'm being convinced to use the Airport Extreme as the router. It seems to be one of the best at controlling computers via their MAC address whereas other controls requires subscriptions, log on accounts, et. al. I can give up those features as long as I can easily and quickly block a computer from internet access when needed, as well as, set automatic time schedules for every day use.

Since I'm the one who runs the Macs in the house, it would be easier for me since I already know the software.

The number of ports on the Airport Extreme would be 1 port shy of what I need. It has 3 to connect to the 3 things as my current router is doing, but I need a 4th connection to daisy chain it to a hub. Maybe I should consider getting a new hub with more than just 4 connections? That would solve that problem.

Okay, so let's say I use the Airport Extreme (AE) as the router. I'd have to consider where to run the lines back and forth.

So the connection would be: modem --> AE --> hub --> other devices

Right now I have a wire from the modem to the AE. I'll need to add a new wire from the AE to the hub. Then all the other wires can stay in their current place. The short wire from the router to the hub will be replaced with a long wire from the AE to the hub.

I used to have another Mac on the side of the room close to where the AE is right now. I hope I left that wire in place and didn't remove it. If so, then that would immediately set me up.

Then all I'd need to do is add more AE's to extend the signal.

Am I on track with this so far?

A couple of questions:

If I replace my current hub for a switch, do I have to do anything special? Or does a switch plug in exactly like a hub? Is a switch a direct replacement for a hub?

If I added a second AE to extend the signal, could I put it under a couch? Or would that degrade the signal too much? What if I attached it to the wall directly behind the couch, but still low enough for the couch to hide it?

Most small home switches are "unmanaged" switches, meaning that you cannot change any settings in them. An unmanaged switch will be a direct replacement for a hub.

You could put it under the couch, although it's not optimum. The couch (assuming that it doesn't have a lot of metal in it--like a hideabed) won't block the signal too much, so it should be alright. The primary disadvantage of putting it under the couch is that the antennas on the AE should be set to radiate and receive horizontally outward from the AE. Sitting directly above the AE would give you surprisingly bad reception, considering it's close proximity. (This is based on a guess as to how the internal antennas in an AE radiate, but it's at least an educated guess based on the way they should radiate.)

Trevor

trevor is right - "omnidirectional" antennas are weak transmitters at their poles, thus you would expect to have very poor reception in a cone above and below the Airport Extreme. Unless there is a really compelling reason to have Airport Extreme under the couch, I wouldn't advise it. There is almost certainly metal in your couch that will interfere with the signal and decrease the signal to noise ratio. The fewer objects between your computer and the Airport, the better the reception you will have.

Well, no need to worry about hiding Airports under the couch. I got the new Airport Extreme and switch installed, replacing the old hub, AE and Dr. Bott antenna. Not only is the signal stronger for all computers, everything is running faster! This really speaks for how much better the newer AEs are from the older ones.

The wiring worked as I had planned, as well. And I have the MAC addresses set up for each computer, booting the kids off at a reasonable hour now. My older daughter is going through a major hysterical issue over it, but that's exactly why it's needed. The only concern is that, if she thought it out, she could easily just plug her laptop into the modem directly.

Our bedroom is right beside the computer room, and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to punch a hole in the wall and move the modem into our bedroom. We keep our bedroom locked during the day, and I think I can put it in a place that would hamper her from sneaking in at night to get it if the door isn't locked.

It would be nice if there was any way to physically lock up the modem with some kind of metal encasing (she's figured out how to get through plastic ones). But I may have to settle for just wiring it into our bedroom.

At least the new parts have greatly improved the network which was important for my husband's work. Amazing how two small changes, a router and switch, can make such a big difference!

Thanks to all who helped me, especially when I questioned how well the AE would work for my needs. The whole thing turned out to be pretty simple and not so confusing! :)

I used to be a locksmith and I can think up of couple different solutions. The one question would be how hot does the modem get? My first thought was to get a small safe. The company that I used to work for (10+ years ago) sold a small safe with a drop slot in it. You had the option of it have an electronic combo lock on it, a mechanical combo, or a safety deposit style lock on it. You could run the cables through the drop slot and it would be pretty secure - at least secure enough that you couldn't break into it without tools and physical evidence of the break-in.

I just did a quick search and found a different one than I was thinking of, but might also work. The "K" models retail for about $300, but there are cheaper ones out their. The "TB" models look to retail for around 100 - 300 depending upon size and lock style. Plus most locksmiths in large towns have used safes.

Another option, and probably the one that I would take, is to put the modem in a sturdy cabinet and had a lock to it. I would get one of the Olympus Cabinet Locks that could accept the same key as my front door. I would have all of my locks rekeyed with a master key system, where my key would open the all of the locks, but the kids would just have keys that open the doors, etc. Of course I would use a patented key system, like Medeco or Assa or Schlage Primus, where the keys are numbered and you can not get duplicates without proper authorization. I could go on and on.

One side question - Do you find the parental controls adequate? You don't really address that in you post, but it seemed like something that was really important to you.

HTH,
Brett

Brett, thank you for your suggestions! We need to replace the printer stand which is where the modem is located so I may give the "locked in cabinet" a try. I also just realized another rather simple thing I could do. Get a metal toolbox. Drill two holes, one for the power plug and another for the cable. Ensure that the box is large enough so the modem can be turned backwards so there would be no access to the ports from the holes. If heat is an issue, I could drill holes in the top. As long as she cannot physically get to the ports on the modem, then she can't bypass the system. We already have a number of things locked with keys, such as using a toolbox to make sure all medicines are locked up. So doing this for the modem wouldn't be any more of an issue.

However, I do have a problem with the parental controls. For some reason, my kids' computers were NOT booted off the internet at the given time. I don't understand why? I entered the MAC addresses and then specified "every day" 8:00 am to 11:00 pm. 11:00pm came and went, and they still had internet access. What could have I done wrong?

Is MAC address security only for computers connected wirelessly? We do not allow wireless connections for the kids for obvious reasons.

Could I have something set wrong?

I'll do some searching to try to figure out what I need to do to get it to work, but if someone here has any ideas, please let me know.

Does anyone know why the Timed Access setting is not working on my Airport Extreme (802.11n)?

Can you check your setup against this Apple help article?

I've gone through that article before. That is exactly how I set up the Timed Access. I don't understand why it's just flat out not working.

Yes - it seems that the access controls in the Airport Utility are only for wireless (Airport) access. The text at the top of the Access panel in Airport Utility says:
"Timed access specifies times and days that a client can join the network based on their wireless MAC address."
The fact that it uses the wireless MAC address (as opposed to the Ethernet MAC address) implies that the control relates only to the wireless network.

It isn't clear why you disallow wireless (Airport) connections for your kids.
I think you can configure their Macs to only allow wireless connections to your Airport base station.

Okay, that's what I was afraid of (only good for wireless).

The reason my kids don't have wireless is (1) 2 of the computers didn't come with wireless and (2) my older daughter's laptop had its wireless disabled when she attended a therapeutic boarding school (otherwise, we would have never given her a laptop at all).

By keeping their computers wired only, it ensures that their internet activities are done in a family room instead of their bedrooms. Our younger daughter will respect our rules and take the consequences when she does not (and she also earns many privileges), but our older daughter is very difficult to handle. She's 18, a year behind in school, and extremely rebellious. She breaks rules just to break them. She does not respond to consequences either (and she has very few privileges). She has no ambition, says she does not want to work because it's not fun, and has "Peter Pan Syndrome" in which she refuses to grow up and take the responsibilities of someone her age (and rejects any desire for the freedoms that come with it). It has taken us over 4 years of intensive therapy of all kinds to finally come to understand that she truly does have some sort of mental illness. Her behavior is basically that of a 2 year old, but she has the physical strength of an adult.

So there is no way I want her to have access to the internet in her bedroom. It is our house, and we have every right to determine what goes on inside of it. If she wants the freedom of choosing for herself, then she could earn her own money and get her own place. However, she's more likely to be one of these kids you hear about who's still living at home at 30 years old with no job and spending every waking moment on the computer. I am adamant that I will not allow her to do that, no matter what it takes. I refuse to enable her. However, what do you do with a child 18 years old who has had this attitude for at least 4-5 years already? Drive her to some street and push her out of the car? It is a very big problem. She can't drive; doesn't want to learn. She can't work; refuses to get a job. She isn't well educated; she's in "Special Education for Emotionally Disturbed" because of her problems which has greatly interrupted her education and she refuses to study. She can't go to any friends' houses because she had no friends; she rejects everyone. We can't take her to any family on my husband's side because they've all passed away. We can't take her to any family on my side because I have no contact with them due to the physical, emotional and sexual abuse I endured from them. What can we do? My husband's much softer on her than I am, and if I had it my way, I would put her on the street unless she is in school or working. But it's easier said than done when it's your own child. If she gets put on the street, she will likely be abused. She has no drive, no ambition, no common sense, nothing. Four years ago, I was afraid she might be one of the children you read about that murder their family as she was intensely angry at me (I'm the closest one to her so I'm her target most times) and consistently wrote horrifyingly detailed accounts of murdering me. We've managed to get her passed that stage. Her anger is gone; she never could come up with a reason of why she was ever angry at me other than because I am the one closest to her. Now we need to get her to at least get a high school education and try to get he motivated to want to grow up. One way to motivate a kid like that is to not allow their home experience to be too comfy. So there are a number of things she is not allowed to do unless she earns it by growing up and getting her own life.

But one of the first things we are doing is maintaining our right to determine what is allowed and not allowed within the confines of our house. No internet in bedrooms, period. And once I can figure out how to do it, I want to control access to the internet to only 2 (maybe 3 for good behavior) hours during school. She cannot be trusted to not break those rules (in fact, it is a challenge to her TO break them), and there is only so much two parents can do (can't stay up all night to stop her from getting on the internet). So I have to find a way to block the internet from her and her sister's computers.

If it was up to me, I'd throw her laptop in a landfill, give her absolutely no passwords on any other computer, and tell her all internet is 100% gone until she earns it. But my husband is too soft and thinks I'm being too harsh. She threatens to cut herself more (hell, let her, I say; I'm tired of being threatened by her).

Anyway, you can see I have a real problem on my hands. And even if I did allow her access to the internet wirelessly so I could block her using her MAC address, that won't stop her from plugging her computer into an ethernet cable from a printer or other computer.

I don't really know what to do at this point. Apple did not make it clear that the Timed Access was only for wireless connections. Why would they not make it work for all connections is beyond me!

At this point, I'm thinking of how I could split the network so the kids' computers are on a switch or hub that is put on a physical timer with that timer locked up. So the power would be shut off to their switch/hub that gives them access to the network and the internet. To accomplish this, I'd also need to lock up the switch that her father and I use. The modem would also have to be locked up, as well. So no one could possibly connect on the parent's part of the network via an ethernet cable.

You would think for as long as parents have had this issue, someone would have come up with a sure-fire way to handle this.

I will figure out a way somehow. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to hearing them. I could use all the help I can get.

What about a software solution - e.g. something as simple as a script that disables the Ethernet connection between certain hours. This could be installed as a "login hook" on the kids' accounts. See: http://www.bombich.com/mactips/loginhooks.html

I could do that with the Mac, but the kids use the PCs most. My younger daughter uses a desktop and my older daughter now covets her laptop.

That's part of the problem. I don't know Windows. I can control the Mac just fine. It's the PCs that I don't know how to block. That's one reason I had hoped to block them by using their MAC addresses.

That kind of solution seems like it would work.
And it would be simpler than you seem to think.
All you would need is a switch or hub that sits inside the same locked box where the Airport base station is.
Then instead of connecting the Ethernet cables from the kids' computers to the Airport base station, connect them to this new switch. And connect the "uplink" port of the switch to the Airport base station. After that everything is exactly as you have it now except that there is a switch between the kid's computers and the Airport base station. So just turn off the power to that switch with a timer as desired.

There may still be a way to use the Timed Access feature of the Airport Extreme, but it is a bit of a hack. If you relocate the Windows desktop (that your younger daughter likes to use) to the same location as the Windows laptop (that your older daughter likes to use), you could use your old Airport to provide access to those to computers.

Connect those two computers to the old Airport via Ethernet and set up that Airport to be a wireless client of your new Airport Extreme. You can then set the Timed Access such that the old Airport gets cut off at a certain time, effectively cutting the two Windows PCs off from the internet.

Like I said, it is a bit of a hack, but it wouldn't involve buying anything new. Would this work for you?

Thanks for the suggestions. wdympcf, I can't move the desktop PC to the desk with the laptop because it can't fit two people at the same time, and my younger daughter has earned the right to not be required to sit directly beside her sister.

Hayne, I'll look at how I may be able to do what you've suggested. But at the same time, listening to myself type all that above has made me absolutely furious. I have an adult in my home who openly refuses to follow the rules, threatens physical harm if we enforce them, and is refusing to do anything that would help her have a life. This is absolutely unacceptable to me.

At this very moment, I'm in her psychiatrist's office. She refused to go to her appointment until she was threatened with loss of her computer. This is absurd!

I'm going to go in with her at the beginning and make it clear that I have had it. If she doesn't follow the rules, I will physically remove the laptop and password protect all other computers. If she threatens to harm herself or others, I'll call 911 and have her removed. If that happens, in our county, that will require that paramedics pick her up, take her to a regular hospital under the constant watch of a guard, and she is then involuntarily committed. This has already happened once. But she was a minor. At this point, she is an adult, and I have no legal requirement to pick her back up.

Either she learns to follow the rules our she's out. If my husband blocks me, then he can go with her. I know that allowing her to continue on this path is only harmful to her. Something has to change. And I should not be required to physically put locks all over my house to prevent someone from doing things we have said they are not to do. Daughter or not, it's time for a wake up call.

One thing that the Airport Extreme will do is let me know if she connects to the network after hours. If so, then no computer. And the process from above can begin if that's what SHE chooses.

Vicki, I wish you good luck with your difficult situation.

Trevor

I want to echo Trevor's sentiments. As a parent of young children, I can only imagine what you are going through.

Thanks. Well, I solved my problem. No locks. No software to disconnect anything. No hardware to push anyone off the internet. If she cannot follow our rules, then she's out. Period.

Sometimes I guess it's too easy to slip into something without realizing it, but while I hadn't planned on writing why I had the need (or thought I had the need) to restrict the internet, writing it out made me wake up and realize what the hell was going on. I have an 18 year old child that is openly refusing to follow the rules? Not at my house!

I read her the riot act with her doctor sitting right beside her, nodding his head. She knows that if she pulls those stunts with us again, she is out. We're so tired of her behavior. She may have emotional problems, but that's no reason for her to disobey the rules of the house or threaten to cause harm to herself or others.

She will take her medicine, she will get her act straight, she will go to school when it starts, on day 1 and every other school day unless she has a measurable illness. And I will not hear her mouth say ever again that she refuses to work because it's not fun.

If she can't handle that, then she's out. She'd better find a friend soon so she'll have some place to go because underpasses of freeways aren't very comfortable.

So my problem is solved. It's so simple, really. The only people allowed in my home are people who follow our rules. Done deal. :)