Browser Problem
 

'm trying to help some friends (new to Macs) who have a Rev A iMac with 10.1.5 on it. Their browser is IE.

Though they can connect (by Earthlink dialup) to lots of websites, they cannot connect to certain others. (The problem is not with the websites. I can connect to them by Earthlink dialup on my computer.)

The ones they cannot connect to are all located on their IE Toolbar Favorites.

But not using the Toolbar to connect and typing in the proper URLs and hitting "Go" gets the same result: No connection.

Going to these unconnectable websites of theirs via Google or Sherlock produces the same results. (Going to these websites via Google or Sherlock entries produces no connection as well.)

Something on their computer is corrupted and has to be trashed to permit connection on this handful of websites--all located on their Toolbar. But what?

Fortunately they can connect to Micrsosoft for Mac and I have got them to download the IE installer for IE for OS X--just in case they have to trash their IE browser and install a new one. (But I'm not sure that will fix their problem--especially if we drag back to the new Explorer preferences their former Favorites.html folder.)

Any ideas on how to fix their problem?

I can't understand why a Mac user would want to use M$$$$$$$$ products. But seriously, I would suggest using Chimera Navigator, Mozilla for OS X version 1.2.1, or even the new Safari beta.

IE works best on Windows. Windows works best on a PC.

At least try connecting via Chimera for debugging purposes.

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chimera/

You can also try creating a guest account and connecting to the web sites from there.

Try exporting the bookmarks file as a backup and then deleting them from explorer.

Thanks mclbruce and thanks also Glanz. To Glanz: They can't use Safari; it requires 10.2.

The couple have just started (eight months ago) to use a computer--and I got them the original iMac with 10.1.5 on it and 256 RAM--for a few hundred dollars. They are just learning. They've got to know IE and don't want to try anything else right now. And that's understandable.


mclbruce: Before you responded, I was going to make your suggestion to them. To see if it's the favorites or something else. But I think it's likely something else--since they cannot connect to their IE toolbar favorites by NOT using the toolbar favorites but JUST TYPING IN the relevant URLs. And all favorites except toolbar favorites work. Anyway, they are going to yank Favorites.html (but not trash it) and see if they can connect, as you suggested.

Might sound like a silly suggestion but perhaps it's down to a corrupted prefs file. A lot of OS X problems can be resolved by creating a new preference file.

If what mclbruce said to do with the bookmarks does not work, I'd remove all of the IE prefs except the bookmarks and then try. What if the cookies are corrupt?

I understand about the care which must be taken to break some people into using a computer. I introduced my parents to a computer when they were 72 and 70 respectively. They were rather tentative at first, but once they realized they weren't going to screw it up, they really took off.

Why do they *need* to know IE? Where I work (a Windows shop), the only supported browser is IE. That doesn't stop me from using Mozilla or Phoenix. The only thing I can't do is get past the stupid authentication on our company intranet.

For personal use, I have a linux box and an iBook. Obviously, there is no IE for linux, and on the iBook, the first thing I did was to delete IE. The only problem I can see is if they have to use websites that have been coded to exclude non-IE browsers. If that is the case, get a browser that can spoof its ID (I forget exactly what this is called). I haven't used it, but Opera can spoof this string, and is supposed to be a very fast and standards-compliant browser.

IMNSHO, teaching someone to use IE is teaching them to rely on a monopolistic corporation who has no interest in your privacy, the security of your computer or treating you as an equal partner in contracts (ie, price inflation). "Learning IE" includes so much fiddling with the default security settings, automatic script execution, etc. (poor security) that learning Mozilla is trivial by comparison. The only thing I've done with Mozilla to enhance/secure my web browsing is to turn off unrequested new windows (pop-ups, pop-unders, etc.)

There are options out there. If you have the opportunity to introduce someone to an aspect of computing, introduce them to the good options, not just the popular ones...

Eric

macmath, your post earlier reminded me of something else. Completely off topic here but, about 6 or 7 years back (when I had a IIfx with 8mb RAM & RAM doubler :D ), I was trying to teach my old man how to use a computer. He's somewhat old-fashioned. After a couple of hours, I finally thought he'd grasped the whole concept. Just as I thought it'd be a good time to forget it for the day, he picked up the mouse mat. He looked at it and said 'so the mouse is reading everything from here and putting it onto the screen?' :rolleyes: I could have screemed. Logical I guess.

timdmgd, that is funny!

Later I bought my parents a new monitor because the old one was pretty bad, and my parents thanked me for buying them a new computer. This was not an 'all-in-one', so I don't know what they thought that box (the cpu) did...read in floppies and store the data, I guess? My mom, now 78 (eight years later) still calls the monitor the computer, even though she does pretty well with using it.

My impression is that they have gotten to know IE. That is, IE is the browser that they are most familiar with. Not that they need to know it, just that they do.

I'd suggest at least trying a browser before recommending it. Opera on OS X bites big green donkey ears. (IMO, of course).

And the point you're making -- namely, to use a standards compliant browser -- won't help at all when they run across a page designed with and for MS products. That's kinda the point. You want them to learn browsing, then you can move them to something else if it's appropriate. You don't need to throw all the extra learning associated with non-compliant webpages in there at the same time.

That's funny. I don't use IE as my main browser (I only use it for non-compliant pages). I do actually use Mozilla as my primary browser. But I didn't have to modify anything in the prefs.

But this is all besides the point. The question was not "What browser do you think they should use?" but "Why are they having this problem?"

If the preferences and Favorites deletion doesn't work, maybe try clearing caches. But I would try using another browser (not trying to convince them to use it, do it yourself) to make sure that it's IE at fault.

Please pardon me. I understand.... But remember to consider Mozilla i.2.1. I find it easier to use than Chimera.... It's like Netscape [Volks} with a Porsche engine.. and they will get hooked on tabbed browsing......:)
Excuse me again.... I spent years helping debug Mozilla, and I wouldn't want to see it go to waste.....;)

Excuse me if I missed this in the thread, but have you even tried taking the sites out of the toolbar favorites? Then manually entering the address? I agree there must be something bigger, but I would think you could narrow it down real fast that way.

Browser Problem
 

I spent three hours this morning with the couple having the browser problem. There are four websites they cannot connect to. Only one is a priority for them. it is: http://www.cbc.ca/audio.html. They use this one to hear CBC (Canadian) radio news via Real Player.

They had no previous trouble connecting to that website via IE. But the day before this connection trouble arose, they phoned me to say that they had lost their dock icon for IE. I thought it was probably just an accidental dragging off the dock. Now I am not so sure.

Anyway, the inability to connect persists with a new installation of IE. (I first trashed all the old IE stuff--app, dock icon, plist, and Explorer folder in Home/Library/Prefs.) Typing in the CBC URL in the new IE gets no connection. Otherwise it seems to work fine.

Before that, I had deleted the CBC cookies in IE, put IE's Favorites.html on the desktop and tried again, put the IE .plist file on the desktop and tried again. Nada.

Next I downoaded and installed for them Chimera's Navigator. Same problem: Putting in the CBC URL and trying to connect gets nowhere. Otherwise Navigator works fine.

So the problem is not in the browsers. And it is not in the CBC website that I can connect to with my iBook carrying 10.2. (I use IE, Navigator, and Safari.) And they could connect to previously with IE and their 10.1.5.

I can reinstall their OS for them. And they have a SuperDrive to back up small stuff. But they don't want me to go to that trouble just because they can longer hear CBC radio each evening.

Apart from reinstalling the OS, does anybody have further ideas?

Sorry late to this thread:

2 things to try before you go to the trouble of reinstalling.

1) Have you tried clearing their cache, cookies, and quitting and reopening IE?

2) try and create another use and try to go to these sites, this will help nail down the problem to the user or the system.

I think the first part would be solved by using a different browser.

I agree with the second part, though.

For what it's worth, of course. I've never claimed to be an expert. :)

Ooops good point, trying (and failing) with another browser would obviate the need to try 1. Shame on me for not reading threads! *spank* :D

Perhaps you could create a new user.

Use IE while logged in as the new user and see if you can connect to those sites.

This might work, as unlikely as it might sound. My AppleWorks was not kerning properly. Words like viewfinder would look ok on the screen but print out as v iew finder...gaps after v's and w's all the time. I did all kinds of disk repair, threw out my AppleWorks User Data file, and my *whole* Preferences folder, and all the Caches (to get rid of the font caches such as com.apple.FCacheUserDomain) and reinstalled AppleWorks (all of these simultaneously) and still AppleWorks had the same kerning problems. However, if I logged in as another user, AppleWorks printed just fine with no kerning problems. If IE connects normally to these sites under the other user, move all documents over to the new user's folder (via the Shared folder as an intermediate folder) and then log in as the new user and type

% sudo chown -R <username>:staff ~ # change owner:group of all files

% chmod -R u+r ~ # add read access for all files

After you're sure that you've transferred everything over, delete the old user. (My thanks to mT for those two command to get me back up and working back then).

By the way, can you connect to those sites with their internet provider?

Browser Troubles
 

Yellow: Yes I emptied their IE cache.

mclbruce and macmath: No I haven't tried setting up a new user to see if IE will connect to the desired website under that user log in. I've done everything else anybody has suggested here but for that--but with, alas, failed results for each suggestion.

If schedules permit, I may try the new user.

Thanks everybody for your help. Mind you, the "finger-waving"over the couple's using IE is, as some noted, irrelevant and so unhelpful. Using another browser to test was, of course, a helpful suggestion. Thanks all.

It's the only thing I can think of. It probably sounds silly, in fact, I know it does. Perhaps it's the ISP's fault. Are they on the same as before?

Re: Browser Troubles
 

A quick and dirty way of testing the new user theory is to move the current user's Library folder to the desktop and then restart. Once you are done testing replace the Library folder with the one on the desktop and restart again.

Re: Re: Browser Troubles
 

Not labour-intensive and nifty idea. Will try that if they are not too nervous. Thanks.

Re: (ii) Yes I can. We use the same ISP; it's Earthlink dialup.

Re: (i) I'm puzzled by this. If they can connect via the new user, that seems to mean that old user stuff is faulty. But if the old user stuff is faulty and is afterwards transferred to the new user, why won't the problem recur with the new user? The new user now becomes faulty. Just having a new user name and password can't remove faultinesss, can it? I'm obviously missing something here. What?

find, then fix
 

No need to get too far ahead of yourself. First find a way to get to those sites somehow. That should tell you a lot about the problem that you don't know now. Once you have that new information then try to make it work the way you want.

Have you checked their Network Preferences? In particular the DNS entries should be the same as yours if you're both using Earhtlink.

One more suggestion. Use Network Utility to look up the IP addresses of the problem sites. Try to ping the IP's from network utility. Then enter the IP addresses directly in the browser.

Doing what mclbruce says (removing the user's Library and restarting) would be a quick first step. If this works, put back in the user's Library only what you feel you must keep (personal fonts, etc). Restart again and see if the troubles have gone away.

If that does nto work, create a new user, log in as the new user, and see if everything (IE, in particular) works the way it should. I think it will.

Then you'll want to move over *only* personal files from the old user account to the new. The OS will recreate those files in the Library that are likely the only ones capable of causing something to go awry. Move nothing over from the old user's Library but move everything else over [unless you have special fonts in the Library]. It is not that you are just changing the name, you are starting out with completely fresh setttings on everything and only your personal data (which is not being accessed by any applications or system items anyway).

With the kerning problem I had in AppleWorks with the font Times, I threw away *nearly* everything in the user's Library (not quite) and it made no difference. Perhaps the .DS_Store files (goblins) were responsible (just kidding)! I don't know, but starting fresh can make a difference.

Edited to take into account mclbruce's previous post.

I've edited my above post, and so I'm posting this to redirect your attention to it (in case you've already read it).

Re: find, then fix
 

mclbruce: Bingo . I had three DNSs; they had just two. The two worked for a month and a half for them, and then suddenly not. (Earthlink added a third DNS this year. I believe I passed it on to the couple before they left for their holidays. But if so, it did not get entered.)

No idea why the two worked for a month and half and then not. ("Go figure" as the kiddies say.)

Any, mirabile dictu, they are back in working order--and very happy. Thanks to you.

You're welcome Roy, glad I could help out. Earthlink does change DNS's from time to time. You can check their web site to see what they currently recommend. Playing around in Network Utility can give you some DNS numbers as well.