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-   -   Unacceptable American behaviour! (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=89971)

aehurst 05-29-2008 11:48 PM

Quote:

Unacceptable behavior.

It is of course, especially egregious for it to happen in the US, where until recently we took pride in leading the world to freedom.
Of course. I had intended to put a :):) after the post, but, alas I erred. So here's two extra! :) :)

NovaScotian 05-30-2008 09:42 AM

It is unacceptable, and lots of Canadians know it. It is not just the music swappers (my laptop and iPod nano are free of any such stuff) -- it's the rest of us who don't like the notion of being presumed guilty until proven innocent.

aehurst 05-30-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

It is unacceptable, and lots of Canadians know it. It is not just the music swappers (my laptop and iPod nano are free of any such stuff) -- it's the rest of us who don't like the notion of being presumed guilty until proven innocent.
And nobody wants to be searched "just because they can" and that is exactly where this all ends up..... not to mention a major harassment tool in the hands of a less than well intentioned official. It would be a horrible precedent to set. I hope your courts/legislative body have more common sense than ours did (and I haven't entirely given up on ours, yet).

wdympcf 05-30-2008 01:12 PM

Fortunately (for this particular case) our courts tend to be much more liberal minded than our current government. Even if this is passed into Canadian law, the courts will most likely throw it out the first time it is enforced.

From part I (Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms), section 8 of the Constitution Act of 1982:

Quote:

Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
From part I, section 11, subsection d:

Quote:

Any person charged with an offence has the right ... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;
As NovaScotian pointed out, most (if not all) of us don't like the notion of being presumed guilty. But it goes beyond that. For Canadians, it is guaranteed by our Charter of Rights and Freedoms! If the presumption of innocence is provided for someone who is charged with an offence, then it certainly must be accorded to those who have not yet even been charged!

NovaScotian 05-30-2008 02:26 PM

We mustn't lose site of this detail, however: They are proposing this for customs inspection of those entering Canada, Canadian or not. There is a long precedent trail permitting Customs officials much broader powers of search and seizure than a policeman has. If it becomes a regulation for Customs inspections, it won't pass through Parliament -- it'll just appear on the books.

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/ has this to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Geist
This suggests that the two-part Prentice plan is rapidly coming together - a Canadian DMCA could be introduced next week, while by the end of the year Canada may have agreed to an international treaty that mandates new levels of surveillance for ISPs and border guards. The effect of these reforms will dramatically reshape Canadian law with Prentice and Prime Minister Stephen Harper rolling out the red carpet for President George Bush's demands and leaving Canadians wondering how their consumer, property, and privacy rights suddenly disappeared.

If it happens (in my view) it'll be fatal to the government in the next election.

wdympcf 05-30-2008 04:36 PM

Quote:

If it happens (in my view) it'll be fatal to the government in the next election.
Quoted for agreement and truth.

aehurst 05-30-2008 04:56 PM

Quote:

They are proposing this for customs inspection of those entering Canada, Canadian or not.
Then you are up against the same historical precedents for border searches looking for smugglers, contraband, and bombs and your guarantees to be free from unreasonable searches may not apply.... they've been doing unreasonable (without probable cause or suspicion) searches for many decades at international points of entry. (Just not your hard drive.)

US has the same guarantees of the presumption of innocence and to be free from unwarranted search or seizure, of course, and you can see how much that helped in our case.

trevor 06-04-2008 06:39 PM

Unacceptable Swedish Behavior!
 
World+dog ignores Sweden's Draconian wiretap bill

Trevor

NovaScotian 06-04-2008 08:40 PM

Mike Masnick on the trade agreement in the works

trevor 06-05-2008 02:14 PM

Unacceptable German Behavior!
 
German government approves plod-spyware law

baf 06-05-2008 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor (Post 474325)


Unfortunately true. But it's just to get a shell account somewhere else in the world and then use ssh for everything.


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